Mystery army groups

pinkypinky

I found these photos in my grandmother's files. Her father was briefly in the Irish army in its very early years (1922-24) and I think he is in this photo. I have his military file from the Archives. He was in the transport corp.

Does anyone recognise the uniforms or anything that might give some context?

Secondly, the photo of the boys in uniform. I've no idea at all here.

Dr.Nightdub

First photo (005) looks like the standard Free State army / National Army uniform from the Civil War. Hadn't a clue initially about the second one (006) with the young kids, then purely on a hunch I googled "Original Boys Brigade uniform" - see here: https://i1.wp.com/infed.org/mobi/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/oulton-broad-bb-circa1930-jelltechs-5339123169-flickr-ccbync2.jpg

pinkypinky

Thanks for your input! The family was Catholic though so I think they wouldn't be likely to have their sons in the boys brigade.

pedroeibar1

Agree on FS army, the FF is clearly visible on the cap badge . No corps badges appear to be visible. All enlisted men, not a Sam Brown to be seen. The second (boys) photo looks theatrical as some of the youngest kids have sargeants stripes as do some of the older guys.

Jellybaby1

Second one doesn't look like Boys' Brigade to us here. Sergeants would have had a haversack and a cross belt as seen in Dr.Nightdub's Boys' Brigade photo but definitely is missing from Pinky's photo. Also in Pinky's photo ALL the boys seem to have stripes which is not regular in the Boys' Brigade. Would love to know what they are though.

Peregrinus

The second photograph is a bit . . . diverse, to my mind. Most of the sergeants' stripes are above the elbow, but at least one set is at the wrist, and inverted. Most of the jackets are of the high-buttoning type but a couple are low-buttoning, with a waistcoat underneath, and one is a high-necked tunic. Some boys are wearing knee-breeches and stockings; others trousers. A few of the hats are non-standard. One or two high collars in there as well. Some sporting watch-chains; most not. Some with handkerchiefs visible in the breast pocket; mostly not. Wide variety of ties.

A possibility is that this isn't a regular unit of any organisation at all; it's a bunch of lads dressed up for a play or pageant. They've borrowed a bunch of Boys Brigade (or similar) uniform items and supplemented them as best they can from other sources. The fact that they seem to be surrounded by a motley collection of screens and curtains may also be telling.

whisky_galore

Doubt if the second one was for a play, if the cast are all dressed that way, no 'civilians' or differently attired people.
The screens etc. could be for unrelated plays perhaps, in whatever hall they used as an assembly hall.

Would have guessed a band, but bands almost always included their instruments in the shot.

Certainly a hodge-podge of different styles, shades (or colours) of jackets.

One guy is wearing what looks like a number of medals, but they look like holy medals rather than military-style ones.

Peregrinus

Boys Brigade uniform items plus holy medals? Something definitely not stacking up there!

whisky_galore

Peregrinus wrote: »

Boys Brigade uniform items plus holy medals? Something definitely not stacking up there!

If it was B.B., you would expect at least one of them to have a B.B. badge with anchor visible. I can't see any!

pinkypinky

Not as easy to solve as I was hoping then!

tabbey

pinkypinky wrote: »

Thanks for your input! The family was Catholic though so I think they wouldn't be likely to have their sons in the boys brigade.

Could it possibly be the Royal Hibernian military school in the Phoenix Park?

Sons of soldiers were educated / institutionalised to follow them into the army.

It is now Saint Mary's Hospital.

Jellybaby1

It's not Royal Hib. I'm sure, they wore side hats, not pill boxes. Their jackets I think were bright red, and they were very, very smart looking. They were in fact being trained for the army, and war.

pinkypinky

This family was poor - not desperately - they had skilled jobs, but certainly not in a position to be funding military school.

Jellybaby1

AFAIK the Royal Hib. was not a 'private' school as such. I think it may have been to provide education for the sons of soldiers who had died/injured in battle and so couldn't provide for their offspring themselves. The boys in turn provided the fodder for war.