Applying to Primary Schools for newborn!

mrsmags16

Putting down my 2 month old child's name for primary schools (ridiculous, but most of them have a policy of first come, first served). We are in Dublin city and already there are so many issues, not least not knowing where we will be living in 4 years' time, so am casting net wide with applications.
He won't be baptised so I have applied to all the ET schools. The only indication I have gotten of how likely a place is is a response indicating he is number 92 on their list for 2021, which is crazy.
I am applying to a few gaelscoils etc as they seem less fanatical about the baptismal cert but will still cast preference to Gaelgeoirs (fair enough, but the kid is 2 months old and while I have cupla focal there is no way I can lie and say I am bringing him up as Gaeilge) and siblings (first child so no siblings anywhere).
The CofI school will give preference to Roman Catholics over those with no faith, which I find hilarious.
I am living in hope that this baptism barrier is done away with and also the first come, first served rule - how on earth does anyone know what they will be up to in 4 years time?! Spending my maternity leave doing this rubbish really makes my blood boil!
There was one sensible school that takes applications from 6 months before admission on a first come, first served basis and told me to come back to them then.
Someone commented today, and have you looked at secondary schools...I nearly hit them!
I have a feeling this may only be a Dublin problem...
I am too stubborn as a taxpayer to get the child baptised just to get into school. I know a lot of people think I should just suck it up but I can't.

Gazzmonkey

What you got against baptism?

I got the wee lad baptised last year to appease his grandparents but we still know religion is a complete heap of (use whatever word you want)

A staunch atheist can come across as anal as a staunch catholic btw :pac:

nootalp

I am due my first baby in December and have already started thinking about primary schools. The system is ridiculous as you've said. I am so glad to hear you are not going to be pressured into christening your child. It is something I feel strongly about, and unless more people stop baptising their children for schools, the policies will never change.

It sickens me that government funded schools are allowed to, essentially discriminate children - based on religion.

Best of luck finding somewhere, only for I don't have a DOB or gender yet, I'd be applying now too!

Loveinapril

You have literally just written a post about my fear! Due my first baby in November and we are atheist/ no religion. We obviously have a strong preference to an Educate Together but our local one (local right now but we will have to move as we are only in a one bed) takes names from a few months before admission. I would ideally like to apply for all ET schools in North Dublin as we will be staying here but obviously catchment areas will be a factor too. My siblings and I went to a gaelscoil due to their openness to the non- baptised and although we would be okay with that option, we would prefer for our child to not be excluded during all the ridiculous time spent on religious stuff. I haven't even had my kid yet and am super stressed about it.

eviltwin

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

What you got against baptism?

I got the wee lad baptised last year to appease his grandparents but we still know religion is a complete heap of (use whatever word you want)

A staunch atheist can come across as anal as a staunch catholic btw :pac:

Presumably she's not Catholic. Why should anyone who has no relationship or interest in the Catholic religion feel pressured to have their child baptised into that religion? It should be treated with more respect than that.

All I can say OP is apply to as many as you can, a lot of people make multiple applications so you may be closer up the list than you appear.

Loveinapril

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

What you got against baptism?

I am not nor was I ever Catholic/ Protestant. Why should I baptise my kid into a religion that I have no affiliation with? The idea of doing this to get my kid educated is absolutely absurd. I really wish more people thought hard about this and stopped being manipulated into baptising their children.

The_Valeyard

A lot of schools no longer let you apply years in advance, surprised it's still done in some places.

Digs

The_Valeyard wrote: »

A lot of schools no longer let you apply years in advance, surprised it's still done in some places.

Yeah south Dublin here and none of the three we applied to would take names until the year before she was due to start (which is this sept). The idea of putting newborns names down is crazy.

As it happens she got a place in the local RC, gaelscoil and ET. She's going to the gaelscoil. ET was last choice. Annecdotally none asked about religion or asked for baptismal cert.

catrionanic

I could have written your post myself, minus the baptism issue.

Our wee boy is 5 months old. We currently live in a tiny 2-bed in ranelagh but no way will we be able to afford a house around here when we move on in another couple of years. So I've had to cast the net wide and apply to a selection of areas... knowing that we may not end up living in any of them!

It's so ridiculous. Maddening also. I wish they'd all bring in the application date as 6-12 months before the child is due to start.

The_Valeyard

catrionanic wrote: »

It's so ridiculous. Maddening also. I wish they'd all bring in the application date as 6-12 months before the child is due to start.

Most schools are heading that way. Should all be like this within couple years. Just a couple of bugs to work out more to do with private schools.

GalwayGrrrrrl

Its probably no comfort to you, but Galway city is just as bad!
The reason people mentioned secondary schools is that some primary schools are feeders for certain secondaries. For the popular secondaries it's extremely hard to get a place if you are not in the correct feeder. Also some secondaries are hugely oversubscribed. I put my toddlers name down for a popular secondary and i was already way down the waiting list, so it appears some people do put babies names on lists for secondaries.

uck51js9zml2yt

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

What you got against baptism?

I got the wee lad baptised last year to appease his grandparents but we still know religion is a complete heap of (use whatever word you want)

A staunch atheist can come across as anal as a staunch catholic btw :pac:

Great to see you making a decision based on the strength of your convictions

I'm not RCC, didn't get my kids baptised and my eldest is in an RCC school ( youngest to follow) and I'm now on the board of management. Everything depends on the school. It's not black and white.

bee06

This thread is totally freaking me out! Due in December and didn't think I'd have to worry about schools for another few years.

lazygal

Had the name down for ET at a couple of months old, got an offer in the third round. The relief though, I've heard the Catholic schools aren't great for opting out and that's been the experience of parents I know. We'd never baptise, for schools, grandparents or any other spurious reason.

Moonbeam

we are in Kildare and you need to apply for the Gael Scoil nearly at birth and the ET shortly after,we had school places because we moved here when the eldest was 12 months old and it as far too late to get a place for JI.
Hopefully the new enrollment rules will be in by 2021.

shesty

We are in North Dublin and this is not an issue in our area.They don't take names til the Jan before the child starts schools.
I'd be less worried about whether the child is baptised and more worried about the sheer application volume and popularity of your local schools OP.
Given that our local Loreto secondary school has many headscarf-wearing students, I think it's more about volume these days.
If you're in the city or a heavily populated area and you want your child to be in a certain school or a feeder for a secondary school, then it's just a factor of where you live.If you're flexible on where you settle down and you haven't decided on where it will be yet, then I suggest you look around and see what your other options are.There's more to Dublin than just the southside.

rainbow kirby

catrionanic wrote: »

It's so ridiculous. Maddening also. I wish they'd all bring in the application date as 6-12 months before the child is due to start.

That's the way it is here - if we're still in this area in the September when my son is 3 we have to submit a form to the council with our top 3-5 school choices on it and will be allocated the first available preference. We're in the microscopic catchment area for the best primary school in the area though.

mrsmags16

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

A staunch atheist can come across as anal as a staunch catholic btw :pac:

I'm not a staunch atheist!
But I'm not a Catholic either.

farmchoice

i'm an atheist, now my wife is a kind of passing catholic and we had the kids Baptized. personally i would have been as happy to leave it but i'm glad i did from the schools thing point of view.

do i think the whole this is wrong, yes, am i prepared to make my child's education the rock on which we should fight the good fight, no.

am i wrong to do this,i think so, is it Hippocratic, yes.

at the end of the day i have to do what is right for my children I'm setting a bad example when it comes to standing up for what you believe in but ill have to live with that.

ted1

The_Valeyard wrote: »

catrionanic wrote: »

It's so ridiculous. Maddening also. I wish they'd all bring in the application date as 6-12 months before the child is due to start.

Most schools are heading that way. Should all be like this within couple years. Just a couple of bugs to work out more to do with private schools.

I prefer the current system, imagine buying a house then finding out the kid can't get into the local school. At least if you know in advance you can make plans and settle

byhookorbycrook

I teach in a Gaelscoil and we certainly don't need baptism certs to apply and don't have religion as a criterion.

yellow hen

OP we put our sons name down for some schools in Dublin South city when he was about 1yr old. The schools in question were catholic (not why we chose them by the way) and extremely popular and they were also in a more affluent catchment area then the catchment we lived in. We knew we hadn't a hope of getting a place but tried anyway. We've since moved to kildare and one of the schools called earlier this year to say our son had a place for Sept 2017. He would have been at the bottom of their enrolment criteria so we were shocked he got a a place. I just thought it was interesting that it's maybe not as grim as it appears.

Chocolate fiend

We are in Australia and it is done very well here. You can go to the local public school regardless of race or religion. You can go to a private school based on entrance criteria similar to the ones for tax payer funded schools in Ireland. You never need to worry about not getting into your local school and you can put your name down at any stage in the 6 months before or if you move into the area you just start at the school.

No reason we can't change to that sort of system in Ireland once the schooling system becomes a bit more secular.

eviltwin

I put my sons name down for our local ET when I was six months pregnant. I put his name down for the ET secondary school when he was in senior infants. It's crazy but it's the situation we have at the moment. I wouldn't want my child in a religious school even if they would take him.

beechwood55

eviltwin wrote: »

I put my sons name down for our local ET when I was six months pregnant. I put his name down for the ET secondary school when he was in senior infants. It's crazy but it's the situation we have at the moment. I wouldn't want my child in a religious school even if they would take him.

The ET school my children attended need a PPS number as part of the application process. They would not accept an application for an unborn child.

beechwood55

bee06 wrote: »

This thread is totally freaking me out! Due in December and didn't think I'd have to worry about schools for another few years.

It depends on where you live. In a lot of areas there is no issue with getting a place in a local school.

LirW

I moved here with my son when he was 5, close to turning 6 and I had to find a school for him. ET was oversubscribed and we were so worried, we wrote to pretty much every school on the northside. The answers were mixed, some asked us if we're mad because that's so far away but there were plenty of schools that would have enrolled him straight away, one of them was the school just up the road. They also didn't care about baptism (it is a catholic school).

We're now moving soon out of town, my boy can be placed in all schools in the area and I enrolled my little one in the closest ET, that's around 18km away 6 weeks ago, when she was 3 months and she's placed second on the list.
It's not all doom and gloom if you're not dead set on ET.

Hannibal_Smith

Why don't you put your child's name down in the Catholic schools anyway? I know the policies put children not of the faith down the pecking order, but you never know how things will change in the future.

I wouldn't get stressed about it now though. Put your kid's name down anywhere you feel suitable and wait till closer to school age to stress.

But please, please, when it comes close to school age, make your decision and remove your interest from other schools so you're not clogging things up unnecessarily.

pwurple

More schools and spaces in pressure zones is what's needed. And people to stop trying to game the application system. Accept one, and let the others know to free the space.

I've seen schools are now looking for place-booking deposits of 200 euro from parents, and I can see why!

My children are in a CoI school. Yes, CoI preference in the criteria, followed by other denomination Christian... RC, Methodist & Orthodox etc are equivalent.

This is the order:
1) Siblings
2) CoI
3) Location
4) Other Christian
5) Other

The school has all acceptances back for next September, but as usual, there will be people who have accepted, and who won't show up. Very frustrating.

Hannibal_Smith

pwurple wrote: »

More schools and spaces in pressure zones is what's needed. And people to stop trying to game the application system. Accept one, and let the others know to free the space.

I've seen schools are now looking for place-booking deposits of 200 euro from parents, and I can see why!

My children are in a CoI school. Yes, CoI preference in the criteria, followed by other denomination Christian... RC, Methodist & Orthodox etc are equivalent.

This is the order:
1) Siblings
2) CoI
3) Location
4) Other Christian
5) Other

The school has all acceptances back for next September, but as usual, there will be people who have accepted, and who won't show up. Very frustrating.

200 euro application fee is a disgrace and is NOT the solution.

seamus

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

200 euro application fee is a disgrace and is NOT the solution.

It's schools doing their best to work with what they've got. Until the DoE steps in to try and resolve this, schools will do what they have to.

I know a number of people who put their kids down for the school near us last year and got rejected because they weren't baptised and/or were too far outside the catchment.

On the first day they had 7 junior infant classes arranged to go, but there were enough no-shows on that day that they were able to reconfigure the kids into 6 classes.

That's around 25 kids whose applications were rejected because the place was taken up by someone who had no intention of turning up and didn't have the basic manners to let the school know.

What's worse is that the school gets in touch with the parents in advance and operates on a "if you don't respond to us, we'll assume you've moved on and you lose your place" basis. So that's 25 sets of parents who actively reserved a place for their child in at least 2 schools.

Ultimately what's needed here is a central authority for managing applications to any school that gets public funding. Like the CAO, you submit your application listing your preferred schools in order, the authority "scores" each child based on their proximity to the school and whether they have siblings in the school and then assigns out places.

The UK system where you have to attend a specific school is bonkers, but so too is our free-for-all.

Hannibal_Smith

I understand what the problem is. We have 2 in school and faced the same issues as everyone else. But schools thinking they can charge 200 entrance fee is not the answer and it's not a trend I would like to see growing traction.

It's exactly what you said, it's bad manners. But penalising everyone else or marginalising those who can't afford to pay 200 quid is not the answer

Dravokivich

My reading of the 200 euro deposit was that if you don't send the child you forfeit it, it's not charged if you send the child?

Chips Lovell

seamus wrote: »

On the first day they had 7 junior infant classes arranged to go, but there were enough no-shows on that day that they were able to reconfigure the kids into 6 classes.

That's around 25 kids whose applications were rejected because the place was taken up by someone who had no intention of turning up and didn't have the basic manners to let the school know.

What's worse is that the school gets in touch with the parents in advance and operates on a "if you don't respond to us, we'll assume you've moved on and you lose your place" basis. So that's 25 sets of parents who actively reserved a place for their child in at least 2 schools.

I know of one school that lost a teacher because of this carry on. Teacher hired based on number of acceptances and then let go when they didn't show up.

Eds

I think you have him down for the wrong year which probably isn't helping your cause. There will be children born in early 2016 starting school Sep 2021. In most of Dublin the trend is towards children born after February/March starting school at 5. This is becoming even more so the case since the introduction of the second ECCE year. I'm surprised none of the schools mentioned it. Our school has a cut off as do many others where your son would not be accepted at 4 with an April birthday. There are stats somewhere on the DCYA website that show the percentage of children under 5 in JI each January and it is very low. I would go back and reapply for 2022 and you will stand a much better chance of getting your child into an Educate Together school.

uck51js9zml2yt

Not all RC schools require a baptismal certificate.
We're not RC and my son is in an RC school.

PhoenixParker

Micheal Tangy Barge wrote: »

Not all RC schools require a baptismal certificate.
We're not RC and my son is in an RC school.

This is worth checking if the catholic ethos isnt a problem. Someone mentioned Loreto earlier. The schools of theirs I've looked at don't prioritise by religion.

uck51js9zml2yt

PhoenixParker wrote: »

This is worth checking if the catholic ethos isnt a problem. Someone mentioned Loreto earlier. The schools of theirs I've looked at don't prioritise by religion.

Just to add, I'm now also on the board of management, also not an issue!

byhookorbycrook

Micheal Tangy Barge wrote: »

Not all RC schools require a baptismal certificate.
We're not RC and my son is in an RC school.

Ours is Catholic and hugely oversubscribed, but baptism isn't part of our policy either. But the media like to pretend that there is a huge issue.Ditto the back to school costs."

PhoenixParker

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Ours is Catholic and hugely oversubscribed, but baptism isn't part of our policy either. But the media like to pretend that there is a huge issue.

It's not just an issue because of lack of school places, it's also an issue because many people don't want a school with a Catholic ethos for their kids.

It is a huge issue.

rainbow kirby

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Ours is Catholic and hugely oversubscribed, but baptism isn't part of our policy either. But the media like to pretend that there is a huge issue.Ditto the back to school costs."

This is part of the problem - the point that many people now do not want a RC education for their children in any way, shape or form is being totally missed. Schools can bleat on all they want about how inclusive they are but when it's impossible to completely escape the prayers and indoctrination and children are totally othered by having to be opted out their claims mean nothing.