Family Farm Query ?

westland81

Hi,
Ive been farming my grandparents farm this past 6 years. All still in their name SFP and Herd numbers etc but I do all the buying/selling/draining/silage/feeding and recently put up new buildings etc. The farm will be left to the sons (my uncles) none of whom are interested in farming. What is the best way to approach this situation to try and purchase the farm ? I am keenly interested and have a local 8-5 job but what 50 acres is going to cost, is it really worth it? Invested heavily in breeding etc this past few years and calving sheds - would be a shame to call it quits now and loose everything but does farming justify going for the plunge? And what would be the best way to do it ?
Cheers

wiggy123

losing battle you have there! is the stock in your name??

westland81

Tell me about it ! No stock is not in my name - in grandparents name but does go into my account. 
I like to add I also live on the farm. So in a year or more itl be painful to watch someone else drive up the laneway past the house to farm it.

wiggy123

will be out a fortune also.. u a gd solicitor? try get something sorted? bad situation...

westland81

Yeah true. Is there anything a solicitor can actually do in this case ? 
We will see what comes of it all ... Id consider buying the uncles out if it was a fair enuf deal. Need to weigh up what its worth apart from the heartstrings.

I said

Unless it's signed over to you I think you're on a loser

Username John

Maybe talk to a solicitor to get the legal position, so you know exactly where you stand...

Its hard to say what to do next, as a lot would depend on what the solicitor said...

But assuming the solicitors update was as the previous OP suggested, where you are 'on a loser' then I would chat with your family...

So away from the legal route - chat with your grandparents about your worries and thoughts... If you have a proposal run it by them... Suggest a family meeting, where everyone comes together to discuss it... Maybe

Best of luck anyways...

wiggy123

I can see you been stung... what the uncles like? money mad...or will they give u a fair crack?

pedigree 6

westland81 wrote: »

Tell me about it ! No stock is not in my name - in grandparents name but does go into my account. 
I like to add I also live on the farm. So in a year or more itl be painful to watch someone else drive up the laneway past the house to farm it.

Whoa there back up the truck!

The stock are in your grandparents name but all financial transactions with the said stock are being done through an account in your name.

So you are paying tax and the yearly
accounts are in your name?

_Brian

May be worth grasping the nettle and approach grandparents directly about the future for the farm.
They may need care for which the farm may be used as tha source of funds anyway under the fair deal scheme.

Mooooo

Where the sheds built from proceeds of farm, are you taking the cattle profit etc? If so you are not out of pocket so to speak it's the same as farming a place rent free or managing for them in this case maybe. You would be out of pocket if they were keeping proceeds etc and you doing all work. Best bet is to talk to them and if you are not going to be left the farm then stop working there and let the person who will get it do it

ganmo

_Brian wrote: »

May be worth grasping the nettle and approach grandparents directly about the future for the farm.
They may need care for which the farm may be used as tha source of funds anyway under the fair deal scheme.

Definitely you need to talk to your grandparents. At least convince them to make a will and suggest naming you as a part inheriter of the farm(I don't think they can cut their children out)

You could offer to buy the land bit by bit

Cavanjack

ganmo wrote: »

Definitely you need to talk to your grandparents. At least convince them to make a will and suggest naming you as a part inheriter of the farm(I don't think they can cut their children out)

You could offer to buy the land bit by bit

Nothing to stop them willing the place to a grandchild. They could will it to a cats home if they wished.

The part time boy

Like other lads said . Sit down with your grandparents . Tell them about your love for the land . Tell them you like the farm to be left to you . Point out what the point in leaving it to the sons of its going to be sold.

I come across a few people complain that parents won't tell them what going to happen with land or the farm has not be signed over but they never go and talk to parents about it either . Bring it up ! Talk about it ! Maybe depending on your grandparents age a parenership might be a good idea .

You say the farm going to the sons . I presume your mother (daughter) getting nothing . Is the problem here that you got the wrong name ? If so that quite backwards and sad from your grandparents point of view .

Would u consider changing your name by depol to get the farm (joke)

Ask first .if they say no you 2 options .

Buy your uncle's out ? Hard to advise on that lot will depend on your life and how much land etc .

2nd option give your grandparents a months notice and tell them there no point you working the land if your not going to taugh about as a successor . Don't be made a fool of . as harsh as it sound you have to go . The uncle's can either look after the place or grandparents might see the good your doing when your gone.

august12

If your grandparents need long term nursing home care in the future, be aware the lands value and house value is included in the calculation of nursing home fees,
they could end up paying a substantial sum to cover nursing costs, a certain percentage of the house value is calculated and charged for 3 years but there is no cap on the land i.e. 7.5 %of the land value is calculated every year as long as nursing care is needed. Land and house has to be transferred at least 5 years in order to avoid this. You could end up with nothing. People should be planning years in advance to avoid this.

Who2

The fair deal is pushed out to seven years now. How have you managed to get into this situation without some form of clarity or assurance of what's going to happen. It's an odd situation especially if the proceeds of the cattle and such run through your account. I presume you've kept some form of records of what has been spent and what you've done, if not I'd say your on a hiding to nothing. Have your grandparents officially told you your not getting it or is it just a presumption. Either way if you mention solicitors you'll have everyone's back up in seconds.

longgonesilver

If your grandparents were to let or give the farm to you, revenue should award you favoured nephew status. this would give you the same tax free allowances as a child gets.

If you were not to get the farm, some of the stock could be transferred to you if you got your own herd number. At least then you would not be leaving with nothing.

Who owns/bought the machinery.

What age are your grandparents.

westland81

Yeah all mart cheques etc are through my account and vat / tax returns all through my account.
Thats the problem - rest of family hav no interest in farming so it will be sold on. Whether or not they want to keep price at a minimum to have a fmily member retain it or not - well time will tell.
I wouldnt go near solicitor - as previous posts suggest would just get everyones back up in a hump to start with - looks like it will be either havn to try and purchase or forget about it.

wiggy123

u may start the ball rolling anyway.. organise a meeting with them all together, state you opinion, find out what they plan to do.. u need to know one way or another before its to late--and u are left empty handed...and pocketless

Username John

westland81 wrote: »

Yeah all mart cheques etc are through my account and vat / tax returns all through my account.
Thats the problem - rest of family hav no interest in farming so it will be sold on. Whether or not they want to keep price at a minimum to have a fmily member retain it or not - well time will tell.
I wouldnt go near solicitor - as previous posts suggest would just get everyones back up in a hump to start with - looks like it will be either havn to try and purchase or forget about it.

You could meet a solicitor, on your own, you dont have to tell anyone.. Its just so you know where you stand. It could be money well spent, to have this information in time...

In fact, I think to not do so, would be a bad move...

But - tis your call, and this is the internet, so nothing on here is very real

pedigree 6

Username John wrote: »

You could meet a solicitor, on your own, you dont have to tell anyone.. Its just so you know where you stand. It could be money well spent, to have this information in time...

In fact, I think to not do so, would be a bad move...

But - tis your call, and this is the internet, so nothing on here is very real

+ 1.
Go to a solicitor and find out where you stand. As John said you need not tell anyone of meeting with them. So no backs up or anyone miffed.
That's what a solicitor is for. A few minutes and they'll tell you where you stand.
It's up to you then what you do with that advice.

I think it would be unwise not to seek advice.

At the very least you could be owed wages from the place.
I'll say no more but you really should seek the advice from a professional.

Oh and don't go to the same solicitor that your grandparents use.:)

maidhc

There may well be a cause of action here in promissory estoppel. Talk to a solicitor.

Markcheese

Would your grandparents put the farm into a family trust.. Basically whoever farms it, gets the benefit and most of the say. .. And gets first dibs at passing it on down to their kids to farm.. If those kids don't want to farm it goes back to the rest of the family to see if someone else wants to farm it..

Username John

Markcheese wrote: »

Would your grandparents put the farm into a family trust.. Basically whoever farms it, gets the benefit and most of the say. .. And gets first dibs at passing it on down to their kids to farm.. If those kids don't want to farm it goes back to the rest of the family to see if someone else wants to farm it..

Jaysus, I dunno, to me that sounds like a recipe for disaster... :eek:

pedigree 6

Username John wrote: »

Jaysus, I dunno, to me that sounds like a recipe for disaster... :eek:

Last man or woman standing.:D;)

Username John

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Last man or woman standing.:D;)

A bit yeah...

Or lads / lassies going farming, not cos they want to, just they don't want to see someone else have it

Markcheese

Username John wrote:

Or lads / lassies going farming, not cos they want to, just they don't want to see someone else have it

Would they last long? That happens now anyway..
I dunno it just seems like a fairer way of keeping the farm actively in the family and not just leaving it to someone who just wants to flog it first chance...
. .

pedigree 6

Username John wrote: »

A bit yeah...

Or lads / lassies going farming, not cos they want to, just they don't want to see someone else have it

That's what I was hinting at.

Could be a lot of farm deaths in a situation like that.

Stranger things have happened.

Edit: keep it to the point and simple. No family rows or disagreements then after.
The land will look after itself but the family can tear themselves to pieces.

The part time boy

Username John wrote: »

Markcheese wrote: »

Would your grandparents put the farm into a family trust..

Jaysus, I dunno, to me that sounds like a recipe for disaster... :eek:

We have something like that near us. In trust for last 250 years . Last time it changed hand they had to go to the UK and find a 3rd couisen to take it on.

An no women it has to go to someone with the family name .

And to the op last time I say it but ask the family for the farm . They might surprise ya

kerry cow

Nice and all as the uncle is , money is money and make the world go round but is root to all evil .
Can nt see a good result .
What were you thinking day one ??

WhichWay

http://www.successionireland.ie/about-us/

These guys service might help bring some clarity to your situation. Organised mediation to open the conversation up among the interested parties.

I've no experience with them.