Ryanair Fleet Discussion

zone 1

Are Ryanair looking at the 737 max 10. could this mean ther looking into transatlantic for future growth.

Captain_Crash

I think they are looking to compete with W6 who have a large number of A321N's on order. the capacity of the MAX200 works for FR's overall network, but the added capacity of the MAX10 can strongly compete on a seat mile cost with W6 in Eastern Europe.

Fattes

zone 1 wrote: »

Are Ryanair looking at the 737 max 10. could this mean ther looking into transatlantic for future growth.

Extra pax on high volume routes within their current network rather than trans Atlantic is the most likely reason.

zone 1

yes quite big order 110 neo and 23 A321-200

EDIT: This refers to the order by Wizzair. Ryanair currently have the B737 MAX-200 on order, with deliveries onging of the B737-800

Zonda999

Fattes wrote: »

Extra pax on high volume routes within their current network rather than trans Atlantic is the most likely reason.

I think so too, I think the MAX10 has shorter range than the MAX8 so I'm not sure if its suited for T/A at all at all, looks to be more for shorter routes that can fill 230 seats at very competitive cost.

Looks like Boeing were really caught napping with this one, this should have been unveiled with the rest of the MAX range. I also expect many MAX9 orders to convert to MAX10 too, now that it has been launched.

Bazzy

Does the MAX class/marque have better fuel consumption?

marno21

If RYR are starting connecting flights, with high frequency routes out of their hubs to offer decent connections it would be very good for their growth. Would happily fly RYR from Kerry and connect in Stansted etc rather than have to trek to Dublin to fly to many parts of Europe.

Locker10a

marno21 wrote: »

If RYR are starting connecting flights, with high frequency routes out of their hubs to offer decent connections it would be very good for their growth. Would happily fly RYR from Kerry and connect in Stansted etc rather than have to trek to Dublin to fly to many parts of Europe.

I think this very scenario will become more common over the next few years

L1011

Bazzy wrote: »

Does the MAX class/marque have better fuel consumption?

Than the NGs they currently use? Yes, by a fairly decent amount, particularly as Ryanair have not moved to the split-scimitar winglets on the NGs which would bring it back a few %

Than the A32xneo - that depends on who's set of slides you believe! Also none of the models match exactly on payload so its always an inexact comparison.


The 10MAX is unlikely to be any less of a runway hog than the 739 is - all the improvements will probably be eaten by the weight - and the 739 is already too easy to tailstrike. Many of the smaller and more challenging fields Ryanair may not be suitable. However, when Wizz are pulling 240 pax with only one extra crew member they may need to go bigger to compete.

If you can't compete on cost you need to compete on frequency, timings and service; none of which they do on routes where they currently compete with Wizz.

donkey balls

So the Max 10 can hold 230 pax compared to the 73NG 189 pax ,That's some serious stretch wonder would it be prone to tail strikes ? Does the MLG and nose wheel have the same clearance as the 738?

Also heard of another newish edition to the fleet but have been sworn to secrecy I'm sure the other FR lads know about it.

Captain_Crash

donkey balls wrote: »

Does the MLG and nose wheel have the same clearance as the 738?

The MAX10 has a different main gear than the rest of the 737 models. Its levered so that the wheels are a few feet further back. Kind of hard to explain on a forum of what it looks like, but its something Boeing have considered

zone 1

donkey balls wrote: »

So the Max 10 can hold 230 pax compared to the 73NG 189 pax ,That's some serious stretch wonder would it be prone to tail strikes ? Does the MLG and nose wheel have the same clearance as the 738?

Also heard of another newish edition to the fleet but have been sworn to secrecy I'm sure the other FR lads know about it.

WHAT lol

EICVD

donkey balls wrote: »

So the Max 10 can hold 230 pax compared to the 73NG 189 pax ,That's some serious stretch wonder would it be prone to tail strikes ? Does the MLG and nose wheel have the same clearance as the 738?

Also heard of another newish edition to the fleet but have been sworn to secrecy I'm sure the other FR lads know about it.

Ah give us a clue about this 'newish edition'

JCX BXC

zone 1 wrote: »

WHAT lol

Applause for this great contribution.

In all seriousness though, I wasn't aware of this massive upgrade in capacity, leaves questions about what Ryanairs strategy will be. Goodbye to 25 minute turnarounds?

kevinandrew

The MAX 10 is a no brainer for Ryanair with Wizzair operating A321s and EasyJet soon to follow. Ryanair sticking to its rigid business model of one fleet type is eventually going to hold them back, fleet commonality isn't that much of a big deal now that aircraft families are so well aligned with each other and their network is more than enough to operate two types. 

It's inevitable that Ryanair is going to need a bigger aircraft to add flexibility to their network and compete with an ever expanding Wizzair which already matches Ryanair on costs and beats them hands down on ancillary revenues. 

Ryanair once described the 737MAX as a dogs dinner of a design, they were reluctant to commit at first until the 200 seat variant was announced and even so Ryanair will only squeeze in 197 seats to save on crew costs. In all fairness, Boeing was rushed into launching the MAX after the runaway success Airbus saw with the NEO so Ryanair's early comments are understandable, as the MAX family has been refined it's now a very competitive offering but they still don't have a true answer to the A321LR yet.

Locker10a

kevinandrew wrote: »

The MAX 10 is a no brainer for Ryanair with Wizzair operating A321s and EasyJet soon to follow. Ryanair sticking to its rigid business model of one fleet type is eventually going to hold them back, fleet commonality isn't that much of a big deal now that aircraft families are so well aligned with each other and their network is more than enough to operate two types. 


It's inevitable that Ryanair is going to need a bigger aircraft to add flexibility to their network and compete with an ever expanding Wizzair which already matches Ryanair on costs and beats them hands down on ancillary revenues. 

Ryanair once described the 737MAX as a dogs dinner of a design, they were reluctant to commit at first until the 200 seat variant was announced and even so Ryanair will only squeeze in 197 seats to save on crew costs. In all fairness, Boeing was rushed into launching the MAX after the runaway success Airbus saw with the NEO so Ryanair's early comments are understandable, as the MAX family has been refined it's now a very competitive offering but they still don't have a true answer to the A321LR yet.

If the MAX will be anything like the Airbus equivalent, with the the flexi cabin, virtually no galley, and miniature toilets(as if they could get smaller) then Ryanair will have to compromise on their reliance on onboard sales, as these new "cram em in" aircraft designs will mean something has to go, be it duty free, additional stock of food/ beverage, or inflight shopping etc galley space will be almost halved.

L1011

Locker10a wrote: »

If the MAX will be anything like the Airbus equivalent, with the the flexi cabin, virtually no galley, and miniature toilets(as if they could get smaller) then Ryanair will have to compromise on their reliance on onboard sales, as these new "cram em in" aircraft designs will mean something has to go, be it duty free, additional stock of food/ beverage, or inflight shopping etc galley space will be almost halved.

You are still able to order the older size galleys and lavs - but not at the 197 pax number they're planning to force in.

Locker10a

L1011 wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

If the MAX will be anything like the Airbus equivalent, with the the flexi cabin, virtually no galley, and miniature toilets(as if they could get smaller) then Ryanair will have to compromise on their reliance on onboard sales, as these new "cram em in" aircraft designs will mean something has to go, be it duty free, additional stock of food/ beverage, or inflight shopping etc galley space will be almost halved.

You are still able to order the older size galleys and lavs - but not at the 197 pax number they're planning to force in.

At least 197 to 3 toilets is not as bad as 240 pax to 3 toilets which can be found on the A321 low cost cram in option

L1011

Common enough ratio for economy in carriers with short haul biz. And yes, it's nasty.

Mebuntu

JCX BXC wrote: »

Goodbye to 25 minute turnarounds?

They already disappeared after allocated seating and two bags was introduced.

JCX BXC

Mebuntu wrote: »

They already disappeared after allocated seating and two bags was introduced.

They're still scheduled though, will scheduling have to change?

Mebuntu

JCX BXC wrote: »

They're still scheduled though, will scheduling have to change?

I don't think so. My post in the Ryanair reserved seating thread tries to explain it. Post #65
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057696342&page=5

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

They're still scheduled though, will scheduling have to change?

Given Ryanair's extensive padding in their flight times, the 25 minute turnaround is still there although it's not actually 25 minutes, given that most flights arrive well before their scheduled arrival time. This can become difficult to achieve late on in the day when the times stack up but its still not much of a delay after.

trellheim

Thank you for that clarification. I was wondering if they ran padded schedules to make that kind of thing work. I thought ( or used to think ) that the basis for the business model was high aircraft utilization due to quick turnarounds , it seems now you say it that things have slowed down

Would that be fair to say ?

Locker10a

trellheim wrote: »

Thank you for that clarification. I was wondering if they ran padded schedules to make that kind of thing work. I thought ( or used to think ) that the basis for the business model was high aircraft utilization due to quick turnarounds , it seems now you say it that things have slowed down

Would that be fair to say ?

Yes turn around times may not have changed but block times for some flights are crazy long. Some Dublin to London flights have a block time of 1 hour 40 mins for example, the actual flight time is generally 55-60 mins so they have given up to 45 mins for taxi time or delays, this obviously means aircraft are being hyper-utilised as is claimed is key to LCC model.
But they do what works and when flying to "main" airport like Ryanair now do 25min turns have a snowballs chance in hell. It's common to just taxi for that time in AMS, or que for take off in Gatwick etc