46a, 145 northbound and Westland Row

bg07

With the Cross City Luas works coming to an end in the coming months is it planned bus routes such as the 46a northbound and the 145 northbound to revert back to College Green rather than Westland Row in the next few months?

A route using Lower Grafton street and College Green would knock significant amount of time from the current Westland Row route. Or is the Westland Row diversion now seen as a permanent rather than temporary arrangement for the Luas works?

LuckyLloyd

It's never going back to routing via Suffolk st I'm afraid. Long term solution is up for debate.

LXFlyer

Some routes will revert to Dawson Street and Grafton Street northbound, but others won't.

There is simply not going to be the space available to share the roadspace with trams every 3 minutes.

Also, there will no longer be a right turn from Dawson Street to Nassau Street when LUAS comes into operation.

So some routes will have to use Kildare Street and then go via Westland Row and Pearse Street.

But, and this is the big but, we as yet don't know what routes are going to go where, and being honest about it nor (and this is a guess on my part) do the NTA nor Dublin Bus.

A possible solution would be to send the routes that go towards the South Quays via Kildare Street and Westland Row, and those going to O'Connell Street and Eden Quay via Dawson Street and Grafton Street.

Stephen15

So since buses aren't going back up Suffolk St. will Suffolk be fully pave and pedestrianised or will cars and taxis be able to use it hopefully not.

MrMorooka

I'd certainly hope it would be pedestrianised, I'm sure the business on the street agree. It's a much nicer place right now than I ever remember being in its incarnation as a busy bus station.

trellheim

It's a much nicer place right now than I ever remember being in its incarnation as a busy bus station.

I appreciate that - don't get me wrong - but those bus pickups and dropoffs that used to be on Suffolk street still need to be made - some other place has gotten much busier in response - take a look at Westmoreland St currently and imagine it now with trams to add to the mayhem ( and thats before cyclists, taxis and the like come into it )

MrMorooka

Yeah, I do agree. There are a lot of streets that are kind of unpleasant because they're just essentially big bus stations with large crowds and they're not equipped to handle it, it's all very ad-hoc. Of course we should have more rail transport so that crowds are at proper stations and such, but that's another issue.

But for Suffolk St in particular I would support pedestrianising it because it helps expand the whole area around Grafton St by stealth. Ideally we could get rid of the multi stories and have the whole area east of George's St and west of Dawson St, incorporating the new College Green plaza as a pedestrianised district, it would be really nice. But I don't know if the current transport infrastructure can handle it.

MOH

lxflyer wrote: »

But, and this is the big but, we as yet don't know what routes are going to go where, and being honest about it nor (and this is a guess on my part) do the NTA nor Dublin Bus.

A possible solution would be to send the routes that go towards the South Quays via Kildare Street and Westland Row, and those going to O'Connell Street and Eden Quay via Dawson Street and Grafton Street.

I really hope they do know. It would be farcical to embark on a project like Luas Cross City which is going to have a permanent impact on bus routings without a very clear plan for exactly what's going to go where and a very good idea of what impact it's going to have on traffic around the city centre.

Ah, who am I kidding. This is Dublin, I'm sure they haven't got a clue.

LXFlyer

MOH wrote: »

I really hope they do know. It would be farcical to embark on a project like Luas Cross City which is going to have a permanent impact on bus routings without a very clear plan for exactly what's going to go where and a very good idea of what impact it's going to have on traffic around the city centre.

Ah, who am I kidding. This is Dublin, I'm sure they haven't got a clue.

Indeed.

We have had at least three different proposals so far as to where the routes will go - and still no final proposals.

It's quite clear that the approach being taken is one of "trial and error".

AlekSmart

MrMorooka wrote: »

Yeah, I do agree. There are a lot of streets that are kind of unpleasant because they're just essentially big bus stations with large crowds and they're not equipped to handle it, it's all very ad-hoc. Of course we should have more rail transport so that crowds are at proper stations and such, but that's another issue.

But for Suffolk St in particular I would support pedestrianising it because it helps expand the whole area around Grafton St by stealth.:eek: Ideally we could get rid of the multi stories a:eek: nd have the whole area east of George's St and west of Dawson St, incorporating the new College Green plaza as a pedestrianised district, it would be really nice. But I don't know if the current transport infrastructure can handle it.

The "current" Public Transport Infrastructure could handle it quite effectively,particularly if allowed to maximize it's capabilities.

However,the Multi-Storey Car Park Operators have a presence and unhealthy influence,at a level far beyond the understanding of ordinary citizens.

Suggesting that even a single Multi-Storey car space in Dublin be "got rid of",is likely to get your name on a watch-list.....be careful out there !!!

Dublin City Council,as presently structured,is highly unlikely to poke this particular Sleeping Dog,yet facing it down could hugely transform the City Centre Area in the most positive of ways. :mad:

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

Indeed.

We have had at least three different proposals so far as to where the routes will go - and still no final proposals.

It's quite clear that the approach being taken is one of "trial and error".

What is particularly concerning to me,is the NTA's decision to invite Jarrett Walker to carry out the most significant review of Dublin's entire Bus Network Infrastructure,when it is scarily apparent,that a very large amount of it is now in total limbo.

Getting the City Centre Bus "Zone" nailed down and fully functional is,to my mind,an absolute pre-requisite BEFORE tasking a consultant with ANY review,or seeking recommendations.

As it currently stands,it is as if somebody posed a question at the penultimate LUAS BXD meeting..."How are we fixed about the Buses Lad's ?" only to be answered along the lines of......"Buses ? ?....I thought you had them sorted already ".

What we are currently witnessing is little short of a shambles,and in many other juristictions would have seen the rapid,forced departure,of some of those responsible.

Stevek101

Wouldn't be surprised if they use this as an excuse to ram through the BusConnect changes.

Stephen15

One thing I think the bus connects plan needs to look at is the amount of street in the city that don't have buses running on them. Take Cuffe Street for example a good wide street that you could easily fit a bus lane on that dosen't afaik have any buses running on but all the buses in Dublin are clogging up College Green, Westmoreland Street, O'Connell Street and The Quays to a certain extent.

LXFlyer

Stevek101 wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised if they use this as an excuse to ram through the BusConnect changes.

Regardless, in my opinion they will take until 2019 to implement - so it's not going to happen overnight.

Stephen15

lxflyer wrote: »

Regardless, in my opinion they will take until 2019 to implement - so it's not going to happen overnight.

And rightfully so. People are complaining thats to far away but any changes should be done properly and not a rushed job.

Conway635

Suffolk Street was a prime example of a location where too many bus movements per hour were crammed together, a situation made worse by forcing city bus, commuter coach, and sightseeing tours into the same very small amount of stop space together.

A similar example, currently ongoing and can be witnessed today is in Lower Leeson Street.

A frankly unsustainable number of buses are all forced to share one stop inbound (across the road from CUS)

The situation is for waiting passenger is awful - in peak hours so many buses are trying to access the stop that they are often queueing five deep to get to a loading position. This creates problems both of visibility (you can't see what buses are coming because of the wall of buses) and, in my view, safety (because both passengers and drivers are tempted to short circuit safe procedure and board away from the stop, straddling pedestrian lights etc.

Add to the mix slow loading coaches (Aircoach, Bus Éireann, etc) and then throw in the fact that the pavement is narrow at this point.

It used to be the case (some years ago) that buses coming from Baggott St skipped this stop as it was considered to be unsafe to address it when only just having joined the traffic flow. And that was when there were fewer routes and less traffic in play!

What needs to happen here?

At least 50% of the buses serving this stop need to be relocated to a stop nearby, but far enough away to space the buses out.

My suggestion would be: remove all paid kerbside parking on Stephens Green East. Put in two stops along here - one (with medium space) for some city buses relocated from the Leeson St stop, and another (long marked bay) to allow Bus Éireann, Aircoach etc to do business.

This won't happen as the notion of giving up paid parking on SSG will be resisted at all costs . . .

C635

WomanSkirtFan8

bg07 wrote: »

With the Cross City Luas works coming to an end in the coming months is it planned bus routes such as the 46a northbound and the 145 northbound to revert back to College Green rather than Westland Row in the next few months?

A route using Lower Grafton street and College Green would knock significant amount of time from the current Westland Row route. Or is the Westland Row diversion now seen as a permanent rather than temporary arrangement for the Luas works?

You're not going to get any buses going anywhere near Dawson Street, Suffolk Street or Lower Grafton Street anymore once the Luas cross city link starts operations so those days are coming to an end I'm afraid.

More than likely the 145 (which i generally use on a sunday) and the 46a will probably be diverted from the Leeson Street (Grand Canal End) down Fitzwilliam Place to Merrion Square and from there around Westland Row to Heuston Staion via Tara Street and Aston Quay would be my guess.:cool:

LXFlyer

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

You're not going to get any buses going anywhere near Dawson Street, Suffolk Street or Lower Grafton Street anymore once the Luas cross city link starts operations so those days are coming to an end I'm afraid.

More than likely the 145 (which i generally use on a sunday) and the 46a will probably be diverted from the Leeson Street (Grand Canal End) down Fitzwilliam Place to Merrion Square and from there around Westland Row to Heuston Staion via Tara Street and Aston Quay would be my guess.:cool:

Totally wrong.

Dawson Street, Nassau St and Lower Grafton St will be shared by LUAS, buses, cyclists and initially as a trial, taxis.