A question of semantics?

judeboy101

Which of the following ran a marathon?

1. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he stopped half way for a toilet break and to drink water

2. Johnny says he ran a marathon last week. When questioned he said he ran 13.11miles Tuesday and another 13.11 miles Wednesday.

3. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he ran the first mile, walked the 2nd mile and continued this pattern for rest of race.

4. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he ran the whole race but had to walk the last mile.


In my head in none of these 4scenarios did he run a marathon, one of the lads I was chatting to yesterday said only johnny ran a marathon in every scenario but #2

What say you?

conor_mc

judeboy101 wrote: »

Which of the following ran a marathon?

1. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he stopped half way for a toilet break and to drink water

2. Johnny says he ran a marathon last week. When questioned he said he ran 13.11miles Tuesday and another 13.11 miles Wednesday.

3. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he ran the first mile, walked the 2nd mile and continued this pattern for rest of race.

4. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he ran the whole race but had to walk the last mile.


In my head in none of these 4scenarios did he run a marathon, one of the lads I was chatting to yesterday said only johnny ran a marathon in every scenario but #2

What say you?

I'll bite! While not technically correct in a linguistic sense, ran = finished for me. So he finished a marathon in all scenarios bar #2, cause having a sleep doesn't count!

judeboy101

conor_mc wrote: »

I'll bite! While not technically correct in a linguistic sense, ran = finished for me. So he finished a marathon in all scenarios bar #2, cause having a sleep doesn't count!

Forgot to add, in scenario #2 he ran half, stopped on the spot, stood all night awake on that spot, next morning continued 2nd half ;P

ultrapercy

judeboy101 wrote: »

Which of the following ran a marathon?

1. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he stopped half way for a toilet break and to drink water

2. Johnny says he ran a marathon last week. When questioned he said he ran 13.11miles Tuesday and another 13.11 miles Wednesday.

3. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he ran the first mile, walked the 2nd mile and continued this pattern for rest of race.

4. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he ran the whole race but had to walk the last mile.


In my head in none of these 4scenarios did he run a marathon, one of the lads I was chatting to yesterday said only johnny ran a marathon in every scenario but #2

What say you?

Johnny?

ultrapercy

judeboy101 wrote: »

Which of the following ran a marathon?

1. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he stopped half way for a toilet break and to drink water

2. Johnny says he ran a marathon last week. When questioned he said he ran 13.11miles Tuesday and another 13.11 miles Wednesday.

3. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he ran the first mile, walked the 2nd mile and continued this pattern for rest of race.

4. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he ran the whole race but had to walk the last mile.


In my head in none of these 4scenarios did he run a marathon, one of the lads I was chatting to yesterday said only johnny ran a marathon in every scenario but #2

What say you?

Johnny?

ultrapercy

judeboy101 wrote: »

Which of the following ran a marathon?

1. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he stopped half way for a toilet break and to drink water

2. Johnny says he ran a marathon last week. When questioned he said he ran 13.11miles Tuesday and another 13.11 miles Wednesday.

3. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he ran the first mile, walked the 2nd mile and continued this pattern for rest of race.

4. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he ran the whole race but had to walk the last mile.


In my head in none of these 4scenarios did he run a marathon, one of the lads I was chatting to yesterday said only johnny ran a marathon in every scenario but #2

What say you?

Johnny?

judeboy101

ultrapercy wrote: »

Johnny?

I was going to use 'Little Johnny' but that would open up a whole other discussion lol

Pherekydes

Can you not walk during a marathon run/race?

Singer

Pherekydes wrote: »

Can you not walk during a marathon run/race?

Of course you can. But according to the absurd requirements of the OP, merely deviating from running at any time during a race means you can't refer to yourself as having "run" a race.

I'm sure Dibaba who lost 20 seconds to while cramping/walking near the end of the London Marathon this year (only the third woman to complete a marathon in under 2:18) would appreciate the pedantic clarity on whether she ran a marathon or not.

Zebra3

1. A marathon is run with Johnny taking a (brief, I assume) toilet and refreshment break.

2,3,4. No marathon is run.

judeboy101

Pherekydes wrote: »

Can you not walk during a marathon run/race?

The whole idea of the marathon is to run without stopping, Pheidippides would definitely not look kindly on anyone who could not match his feat, no matter how fast they went. The essence and spirit of the event is the challenge to replicate his feat, thus celebrating the enduring legacy of his sacrifice.

huskerdu

judeboy101 wrote: »

The whole idea of the marathon is to run without stopping, Pheidippides would definitely not look kindly on anyone who could not match his feat, no matter how fast they went. The essence and spirit of the event is the challenge to replicate his feat, thus celebrating the enduring legacy of his sacrifice.

No, its not a question of semantics, its a question for pedantics.

El Caballo

judeboy101 wrote: »

The whole idea of the marathon is to run without stopping, Pheidippides would definitely not look kindly on anyone who could not match his feat, no matter how fast they went. The essence and spirit of the event is the challenge to replicate his feat, thus celebrating the enduring legacy of his sacrifice.

Pheidippides never ran a marathon anyway, he's not even real.

Owryan

judeboy101 wrote: »

The whole idea of the marathon is to run without stopping, Pheidippides would definitely not look kindly on anyone who could not match his feat, no matter how fast they went. The essence and spirit of the event is the challenge to replicate his feat, thus celebrating the enduring legacy of his sacrifice.

That's if you believe he actually ran that distance in the first place and his "achievement" isn't a story from later sources.

Either way, imo 1,2 + 4 may not have run a full marathon but they completed one.

El Caballo

Owryan wrote: »

That's if you believe he actually ran that distance in the first place and his "achievement" isn't a story from later sources.

Either way, imo 1,2 + 4 may not have run a full marathon but they completed one.

Yep

The story of Pheidippides running from Marathon to Athens during the Persian wars was made up by a Greek comedian 600 years later.

In authoritative accounts of the Persian wars, there is no mention of Phidippedes or anyone else being sent to Athens after battle. What happened was the entire Athenian Army ran back to Athens to defend the city again from the Persians, who escaped to their boats and set sail to Athens attempting to outflank an unprotected city.

Phedippedes is an urban myth.

Owryan

El Caballo wrote: »

Yep

The story of Pheidippides running from Marathon to Athens during the Persian wars was made up by a Greek comedian 600 years later.

In authoritative accounts of the Persian wars, there is no mention of Phidippedes or anyone else being sent to Athens after battle. What happened was the entire Athenian Army ran back to Athens to defend the city again from the Persians, who escaped to their boats and set sail to Athens attempting to outflank an unprotected city.

Phedippedes is an urban myth.

Never said he never existed, he did, there is plenty of contemporary sources that mention him. But, none mention his jog. From memory it is only mentioned in later sources.

Besides that, how does anyone know he didn't stop for a break or walk a bit.

Testosterscone

judeboy101 wrote: »

Which of the following ran a marathon?

1. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he stopped half way for a toilet break and to drink water

2. Johnny says he ran a marathon last week. When questioned he said he ran 13.11miles Tuesday and another 13.11 miles Wednesday.

3. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he ran the first mile, walked the 2nd mile and continued this pattern for rest of race.

4. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he ran the whole race but had to walk the last mile.


In my head in none of these 4scenarios did he run a marathon, one of the lads I was chatting to yesterday said only johnny ran a marathon in every scenario but #2

What say you?

Johnny needs to say a little less and run a little more.

Lazare

Owryan wrote: »

Never said he never existed, he did, there is plenty of contemporary sources that mention him. But, none mention his jog. From memory it is only mentioned in later sources.

Besides that, how does anyone know he didn't stop for a break or walk a bit.

Should be able to tell from his splits.

ThisRegard

El Caballo wrote: »

Phedippedes is an urban myth.

A Greek myth surely.

judeboy101

Owryan wrote: »

Never said he never existed, he did, there is plenty of contemporary sources that mention him. But, none mention his jog. From memory it is only mentioned in later sources.

Besides that, how does anyone know he didn't stop for a break or walk a bit.

Doubt he would have dropped dead from exhaustion if he took a few breaks or walked a bit

judeboy101

El Caballo wrote: »

Pheidippides never ran a marathon anyway, he's not even real.

The most efficient route from marathon to the athenian out posts was ~26 miles. Coincidence?

adrian522

Complete coincidence given the 26 miles only became a thing in 1908.

Itziger

What a pile of codswallop. While I do think that as a runner, we should all try our best to get from start to finish as quickly as possible and that implies running the entire distance, be it 400metres or 100k, there are a multitude of reasons why you might need to stop briefly in a marathon. I'm not going to bother listing them.

Annie get your Run

judeboy101 wrote: »

The whole idea of the marathon is to run without stopping, Pheidippides would definitely not look kindly on anyone who could not match his feat, no matter how fast they went. The essence and spirit of the event is the challenge to replicate his feat, thus celebrating the enduring legacy of his sacrifice.

Didn't he die in the story? So no one is deemed to have replicated his feat unless they too have died? If we're being pedantic about it.

Djoucer

Itziger wrote: »

What a pile of codswallop. While I do think that as a runner, we should all try our best to get from start to finish as quickly as possible and that implies running the entire distance, be it 400metres or 100k, there are a multitude of reasons why you might need to stop briefly in a marathon. I'm not going to bother listing them.

To be fair. Running a marathon means running the whole thing. That's the point.

However, no one really cares if you ran the whole thing. 2.40 with a small walking break is better than 4 hours running.

ger664

judeboy101 wrote: »

The most efficient route from marathon to the athenian out posts was ~26 miles. Coincidence?

Ran the course you pass the Monument in Marathon 5K into the race.

huskerdu

Silliest post of the year so far.

When your record equals Sonia O'Sullivans, you can tell her that her 2.29 in the New York Marathon doesn't meet your standards and doesn't count because she took a toilet break.

judeboy101

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Didn't he die in the story? So no one is deemed to have replicated his feat unless they too have died? If we're being pedantic about it.

His feat was running without stopping, dying was his price for that feat, for others it might just be some chaffed nipples.

judeboy101

huskerdu wrote: »

Silliest post of the year so far.

When your record equals Sonia O'Sullivans, you can tell her that her 2.29 in the New York Marathon doesn't meet your standards and doesn't count because she took a toilet break.

Not my standard, rather THE STANDARD, whether myth or legend its there for over 2000 years. If people remember Sonia o'sullivans 2.29 in two thousand years I would be impressed.

Grassey

judeboy101 wrote:

1. Johnny says he ran a marathon yesterday. When questioned he said he stopped half way for a toilet break and to drink water

I've a friend who does something similar for most races 10k upwards. Obviously the garmin is paused when stopped, it is stopped exactly at the end distance displayed on garmin, (whether she's reached the finish line or not) and each race is a new PB.

Her best Dublin marathon PB excludes the time spent where she stopped at a spectators gate and asked to use the loo, and spent the next 30 mins chatting with them...

Zebra3

Grassey wrote: »

I've a friend who does something similar for most races 10k upwards. Obviously the garmin is paused when stopped, it is stopped exactly at the end distance displayed on garmin, (whether she's reached the finish line or not) and each race is a new PB.

Her best Dublin marathon PB excludes the time spent where she stopped at a spectators gate and asked to use the loo, and spent the next 30 mins chatting with them...

Well it sounds like she did a marathon but her time is wrong.

Once you go over the starting line the clock is ticking imo regardless of what you stop for. Toilet break, first aid, drinks, whatever.

Spending 30 mins to chat with someone during a marathon? Jaysus, if I had my way they'd be disqualified.

average_runner

So do we not count bad water ultra as a running event as all walk some part of it?

Itziger

average_runner wrote: »

So do we not count bad water ultra as a running event as all walk some part of it?

Correct.

The Davestator

I agree with the OP to an extent...

In one dublin marathon I ran, a group of lads were running fast for about a mile, then lying on the grass recovering for a few minutes, and then doing this again. They were constantly flying past me, then I would jog past them.

In their heart of hearts, do they think they ran a marathon? Maybe they do, but if i was them, I wouldn't.

ThisRegard

Itziger wrote: »

Correct.

Better start the campaign to have IMRA kicked from Athletics Ireland, or at least most of its member!

kit3

Personally it wouldn't bother me what 'Johnny' thinks of his achievement. He can call it what he wants - doesn't interfere with anyone else. Running a marathon in whatever form you do it is a personal thing and means something different to each of us. Live & let live and all of that .......

walshb

Best to say completing a marathon to clear up all Johnny's nonsense.

Chivito550

huskerdu wrote: »

Silliest post of the year so far.

When your record equals Sonia O'Sullivans, you can tell her that her 2.29 in the New York Marathon doesn't meet your standards and doesn't count because she took a toilet break.

Just to be super pedantic in this stupid pendantic thread, but Sonia ran 2:32 in NYC 2002. Her 2:29 was in London 2005.

robinph

All except 2 would count as having done a marathon, but 2 could count depending on the start and finish times. if he started running at 10:30pm on one day and finished at 1:30 am on the next day then it still counts. If they started at midday, hiked half way up a mountain, camped overnight and then did the rest of it the next day then that still counts as well.

If he made it to a proper bed in between the two 13.1 mile sections then it doesn't count.

walshb

robinph wrote: »

All except 2 would count as having done a marathon, but 2 could count depending on the start and finish times. if he started running at 10:30pm on one day and finished at 1:30 am on the next day then it still counts. If they started at midday, hiked half way up a mountain, camped overnight and then did the rest of it the next day then that still counts as well.

If he made it to a proper bed in between the two 13.1 mile sections then it doesn't count.

Whatever, Johnny!

average_runner

Johnny Johnny

Yes Papa

Some people will get this, others look at the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olWG6jiMV0g


PS They all run a marathon in it:)

Itziger

average_runner wrote: »

Johnny Johnny

Yes Papa

Some people will get this, others look at the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olWG6jiMV0g


PS They all run a marathon in it:)

Why does he say 'No, Papa' when talking to his mother?????????

And with that we can surely lock this fascinating thread.

average_runner

Itziger wrote: »

Why does he say 'No, Papa' when talking to his mother?????????

And with that we can surely lock this fascinating thread.

He is very confused.

Lock it now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

huskerdu

Chivito550 wrote: »

Just to be super pedantic in this stupid pendantic thread, but Sonia ran 2:32 in NYC 2002. Her 2:29 was in London 2005.

My mistake. Definitely keeping with the spirit of the thread. I respect that.

But, did she RUN 2.32 in NY to the high standards of Johnnys mate.

jameshayes

So hang on....

Say you are going to travel the Dublin Marathon route by car but you get stopped at traffic lights a few times - did you drive the route? The same goes for running, if you get stopped/wish to stop and continue then yes you ran a marathon just like you drove the route

judeboy101

jameshayes wrote: »

So hang on....

Say you are going to travel the Dublin Marathon route by car but you get stopped at traffic lights a few times - did you drive the route? The same goes for running, if you get stopped/wish to stop and continue then yes you ran a marathon just like you drove the route

Not quite, it would be like driving the route, stopping at traffic lights, getting out to push the car, getting back in a driving. You didn't drive all the way, you got out and walked.

Itziger

judeboy101 wrote: »

Not quite, it would be like driving the route, stopping at traffic lights, getting out to push the car, getting back in a driving. You didn't drive all the way, you got out and walked.

You might want to move on, M8.

Figuratively speaking.