Your strengths and Weaknesses - PB Thread

Testosterscone

Following on from a bit of discussion on the Marathon Improvers thread and talk in the logs I thought might not be a bad thread to see where people's strengths and weaknesses lie and how they stack up in relation to their other times and also to provide a reference point for others with target times that some others actual times that might generate a bit more dialogue between posters and training talk

I took the Round Numbers distances just as a general reference point

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone |59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
|||||||||||


For me the wheel house definitely seems to be between 1 mile and 10k with slight drop offs either end.

adrian522

I think it would be somewhat relevant to note when the times were run as not all of us are running every distance every year, but anyway for me...

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone |59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
|||||||||||


Ignoring the 800m and 3k (only ever run once at each distance) my times certainly seem to get weaker as we go up the distances, but I think this year I'll take a chunk off the Half and 10 Mile times so hopefully they would improve a bit on these.

Weakness certainly seems to be with endurance though.

Wubble Wubble

If anyone's interested, I can add details to the times - most are from 2016.

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone |59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|


At the time of writing, I've only raced 800 once, and the mile was a paced effort. Similar to adrian522, endurance seems to be a weak spot?

adrian522

My PB's in chart form, you can really see the drop off (This is using VDOT to compare performances)

kin9pin

Never raced the shorter distances. Big drop-off for the marathon, 2 attempts so far, but I hope to bring that in line at DCM
From the 5k, dates were Dec16, Jan17, May16, Aug16, Mar17, Apr17.

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone |59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|

Wottle

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone |59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|


I've always felt I'm stronger from 800m to 5k, I've never trained for these distances though, which begs the question, why not?
800/1500/5k and 5m all came off the back of Dublin 08 and in build up for Paris 09 which was a disaster.
Consistency is my biggest weakness, working on it :-) and doing faster work before I'm ready. Focus is DM this year and then would love to hammer my 5k, 18 sth would be lovely!

Singer

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone |59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|


VDOT: 50,53.7,52,52.9,50.6,52,45.1

I think my race times generally reflect not being particularly well trained for any distance, my level of fitness at the time and the nature of the course. My mile time is weak due to not really doing any speed work, the annoyingly good 5K PB was down to a good race and flat course (Docklands 5k last year) and my marathon time was the one time I bothered to finish

The races where I performed the best were the 5k, 10k and HM last summer. This year feels like a bit like chasing a ghost in Mario Kart.

Murph_D

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|


A bit of recent speedwork has seen results at 800m and the mile that are kind of reinforcing the growing evidence that everything beyond 5 miles is relatively weak, and that more work on endurance is necessary. (Mind you, the 800 is so off the chart that I'm beginning to wonder is the Trinity track a little short?) Hope to redress the imbalance with a decent HM in Charleville off Hanson training, which is big on HM pace work and speed/strength training to a lesser extent.

Itziger

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|


Not too good on shorter stuff! Will make an effort to at least time trial a few. One thing I will say, the time converter that RunnersWorld are now using is much better for the natural fade over marathon distance than the previous types. I put in my 1.22 Half time as well as the 10k time above and it gave me 2.58.xx Less than a minute off! McMillan gives me something like 2.52. So I'm posting the link to the 'new' RW article and converter.http://www.runnersworld.com/marathon-training/heres-a-better-marathon-time-predictor

RayCun

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56.:42|


800 was when I was still in marathon recovery. Mile wasn't a real race.
5k, 5 mile, and 10k are from the same period, years ago - my brief golden age:P
Half PB is years old, don't know what the story is there...

RayCun

RayCun wrote: »

5k, 5 mile, and 10k are from the same period, years ago - my brief golden age:P

:pac:
broken keyboard
that should be "2 years ago"
:pac:

BeepBeep67

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56.:42|
BB67 <40|61:XX|2:08|4:24|9:09|15:48|27:29|33:30|57:29|1.18:10|N/A|
BB67 >40|N/A|2:17.4|4:57.4|9:51.5|16:52|28:42|36:00|59:45|1:19:55|2:55:51|
2 lives, same issue, just not an endurance bunny, even after investing in 14k miles since the beginning of 2013.
Going back to focusing on my sweet spot 1M - 5k for a few years and let's see what happens.

jamule

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56.:42|
BB67 <40|61:XX|2:08|4:24|9:09|15:48|27:29|33:30|57:29|1.18:10|N/A|
BB67 >40|N/A|2:17.4|4:57.4|9:51.5|16:52|28:42|36:00|59:45|1:19:55|2:55:51|
Jamule|72|2:31|5:16|10:31|17:59|29:46|38:40|1:04:42|1:26:57|3:20.:11|



Need to get the 10k pb down under 38 and I will start on the longer stuff next year.

ger664

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56.:42|
BB67 <40|61:XX|2:08|4:24|9:09|15:48|27:29|33:30|57:29|1.18:10|N/A|
BB67 >40|N/A|2:17.4|4:57.4|9:51.5|16:52|28:42|36:00|59:45|1:19:55|2:55:51|
Jamule|72|2:31|5:16|10:31|17:59|29:46|38:40|1:04:42|1:26:57|3:20.:11|
ger664|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:45|n/a|41:11|69:33|1:35:36|3:18:12

5K & 10K times where set before getting injured on the run into Frankfurt 2016 was training at 3:10 pace at the time. Got injured in Mullingar Half (before it really but it was the straw that broke the camel).

My 5K/10K/10 mile times during the cycle I set My PB in Boston in 2015 20:21;41:46 & 69:33

TFBubendorfer

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56:42|
BB67 <40|61:XX|2:08|4:24|9:09|15:48|27:29|33:30|57:29|1.18:10|N/A|
BB67 >40|N/A|2:17.4|4:57.4|9:51.5|16:52|28:42|36:00|59:45|1:19:55|2:55:51|
Jamule|72|2:31|5:16|10:31|17:59|29:46|38:40|1:04:42|1:26:57|3:20:11|
ger664|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:45|n/a|41:11|69:33|1:35:36|3:18:12
TFBubendorfer|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17:51|29:26|37:58|60:16|1:23:36|2:55:07


To be honest, I'm not sure what this table proves apart from the fact that most runners are lacking in endurance and performances tend to drop as distance grows - and we knew that already.

El Caballo

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56:42|
BB67 <40|61:XX|2:08|4:24|9:09|15:48|27:29|33:30|57:29|1.18:10|N/A|
BB67 >40|N/A|2:17.4|4:57.4|9:51.5|16:52|28:42|36:00|59:45|1:19:55|2:55:51|
Jamule|72|2:31|5:16|10:31|17:59|29:46|38:40|1:04:42|1:26:57|3:20:11|
ger664|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:45|n/a|41:11|69:33|1:35:36|3:18:12
TFBubendorfer|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17:51|29:26|37:58|60:16|1:23:36|2:55:07


To be honest, I'm not sure what this table proves apart from the fact that most runners are lacking in endurance and performances tend to drop as distance grows - and we knew that already.

Not just that but it might show a talent for other distances. Many of the runners in this thread are prolific marathon runners and a lot of those shorter distance times came off marathon training. Why then is their marathon or half marathon time out of line, is it because they lack endurance or because they are naturally inclined towards speed?

Krusty_Clown

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56:42|
BB67 <40|61:XX|2:08|4:24|9:09|15:48|27:29|33:30|57:29|1.18:10|N/A|
BB67 >40|N/A|2:17.4|4:57.4|9:51.5|16:52|28:42|36:00|59:45|1:19:55|2:55:51|
Jamule|72|2:31|5:16|10:31|17:59|29:46|38:40|1:04:42|1:26:57|3:20:11|
ger664|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:45|n/a|41:11|69:33|1:35:36|3:18:12
TFBubendorfer|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17:51|29:26|37:58|60:16|1:23:36|2:55:07
Krusty_Clown|60:01|2:16?|4:49|9:24|15:46|26:14|32:43|53:36|1:12:41|2:30:01

Just to tilt the scales back on the side of the non-speed merchants!

Testosterscone

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56:42|
BB67 <40|61:XX|2:08|4:24|9:09|15:48|27:29|33:30|57:29|1.18:10|N/A|
BB67 >40|N/A|2:17.4|4:57.4|9:51.5|16:52|28:42|36:00|59:45|1:19:55|2:55:51|
Jamule|72|2:31|5:16|10:31|17:59|29:46|38:40|1:04:42|1:26:57|3:20:11|
ger664|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:45|n/a|41:11|69:33|1:35:36|3:18:12
TFBubendorfer|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17:51|29:26|37:58|60:16|1:23:36|2:55:07
Krusty_Clown|60:01|2:16?|4:49|9:24|15:46|26:14|32:43|53:36|1:12:41|2:30:01

Just to tilt the scales back on the side of the non-speed merchants!

Nature or nurture though? 60 flat coming off 90+ miles a week for a few years certainly suggests that there is some speed there before hand. Guess some of us discount our speed because we don't hone it yet paradoxically don't fully embrace the training truly required to max aerobic conditioning so we get caught in no mans land in between.

Krusty_Clown

Testosterscone wrote: »

Nature or nurture though? 60 flat coming off 90+ miles a week for a few years certainly suggests that there is some speed there before hand. Guess some of us discount our speed because we don't hone it yet paradoxically don't fully embrace the training truly required to max aerobic conditioning so we get caught in no mans land in between.

It's an interesting comment. Never really ran before I turned 37/38, so can there be pre-existing speed? No family history of running, no genetic predisposition, and very little training at 4 minute/mile pace, so the 60 is probably a product of strides and maybe some uphill sprints.

On the subject of honing, when you do start later in life, you kind of have to make choices. You go one direction or another. You can drop up/down a couple of levels, but you can't really switch disciplines entirely. For example if I switched to 400/800 now, I could pretty much write-off ever running another marathon PB, as the transition all the way back up to endurance running would take too long and be too costly from a physical perspective. Still, if I run my marathon dream-time, I can switch down with no regrets!

Testosterscone

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

It's an interesting comment. Never really ran before I turned 37/38, so can there be pre-existing speed? No family history of running, no genetic predisposition, and very little training at 4 minute/mile pace, so the 60 is probably a product of strides and maybe some uphill sprints.

On the subject of honing, when you do start later in life, you kind of have to make choices. You go one direction or another. You can drop up/down a couple of levels, but you can't really switch disciplines entirely. For example if I switched to 400/800 now, I could pretty much write-off ever running another marathon PB, as the transition all the way back up to endurance running would take too long and be too costly from a physical perspective. Still, if I run my marathon dream-time, I can switch down with no regrets!

Completely agree, wasn't suggesting otherwise it was more an observation that our perception of speed/strength can sometimes be skewed one way or another. Despite my drop off in marathon I would consider myself more on the endurance side also but I think the training is what lets me down as I wouldn't have that mileage base yet.

pconn062

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56:42|
BB67 <40|61:XX|2:08|4:24|9:09|15:48|27:29|33:30|57:29|1.18:10|N/A|
BB67 >40|N/A|2:17.4|4:57.4|9:51.5|16:52|28:42|36:00|59:45|1:19:55|2:55:51|
Jamule|72|2:31|5:16|10:31|17:59|29:46|38:40|1:04:42|1:26:57|3:20:11|
ger664|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:45|n/a|41:11|69:33|1:35:36|3:18:12
TFBubendorfer|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17:51|29:26|37:58|60:16|1:23:36|2:55:07
Krusty_Clown|60:01|2:16?|4:49|9:24|15:46|26:14|32:43|53:36|1:12:41|2:30:01
pconn062|59:XX|2:08:XX?|4:53|9:45|16:59|29:40|36:55|63:??|1:29:XX|N/A

Definitely on the speedier rather than endurance side of things here. Never ran a 400m race but had a handtimed 58/59 from a 600m time trial two years ago. 5 mile time was ran somewhere in an XC race (think 5 mile road PB is from 2011, haven't ran one since apart from in XC). 10 mile and half are from 2011, haven't ran a race longer than 10k in 5 years.

All those times from 5k down should be much faster, but injuries have halted any potential progress.

Sacksian

Just to play Devil's Advocate, if you're struggling to break 3 hours in the marathon or 40 mins in the 10k, the answer doesn't necessarily always have to be to run more miles. Below the elite level, I personally believe that running economy or efficiency and attention to biomechanics could well be more important.

Obviously, if you're going to run marathons in the 2:30s or 2:20s, then you need massive endurance but it's worth considering the pay-off you might get from an hour of hill-sprints/drills a week vs. 10 more miles a week if you're already running 40-50 miles a week and trying to break 3. Or simply running faster more often.

(I understand that running more miles should also improve your running technique just from feedback / repetition, etc, but I think there's added value from paying specific attention to running relaxed at speed).

I won't post pbs as they're all from different times and run in different contexts. I'm very definitely on the speedier end but I have run a 2:51 marathon off lowish mileage (in support of my above argument!).

TFBubendorfer

Testosterscone wrote: »

Guess some of us discount our speed because we don't hone it yet paradoxically don't fully embrace the training truly required to max aerobic conditioning so we get caught in no mans land in between.

There's another problem, and it shows up when you get older.

My body just can't seem to handle speedwork any more. This spring I had a great training cycle until the moment I started introducing faster work. Despite doing it very gradually and never even getting close to fast pace I got one injury that set me back 2 months and a series of niggles on top of that, all of them coming after (fairly gentle) sessions.

My coach says it's very typical for runners over 45.

gucci

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56:42|
BB67 <40|61:XX|2:08|4:24|9:09|15:48|27:29|33:30|57:29|1.18:10|N/A|
BB67 >40|N/A|2:17.4|4:57.4|9:51.5|16:52|28:42|36:00|59:45|1:19:55|2:55:51|
Jamule|72|2:31|5:16|10:31|17:59|29:46|38:40|1:04:42|1:26:57|3:20:11|
ger664|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:45|n/a|41:11|69:33|1:35:36|3:18:12
TFBubendorfer|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17:51|29:26|37:58|60:16|1:23:36|2:55:07
Krusty_Clown|60:01|2:16?|4:49|9:24|15:46|26:14|32:43|53:36|1:12:41|2:30:01
pconn062|59:XX|2:08:XX?|4:53|9:45|16:59|29:40|36:55|63:??|1:29:XX|N/A
gucci|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|18:42|N/A|39:30|1:05:38|1:30:05|3:04:17


I need to race a bit more, and I need to sort out that half marathon time!!

spc78

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

My body just can't seem to handle speedwork any more. This spring I had a great training cycle until the moment I started introducing faster work. Despite doing it very gradually and never even getting close to fast pace I got one injury that set me back 2 months and a series of niggles on top of that, all of them coming after (fairly gentle) sessions.

What type of surface did you do this speedwork on? Any type of surface other than grass really hurts me if I do speedwork.

Tombo2001

Sacksian wrote: »

Just to play Devil's Advocate, if you're struggling to break 3 hours in the marathon or 40 mins in the 10k, the answer doesn't necessarily always have to be to run more miles. Below the elite level, I personally believe that running economy or efficiency and attention to biomechanics could well be more important.

Obviously, if you're going to run marathons in the 2:30s or 2:20s, then you need massive endurance but it's worth considering the pay-off you might get from an hour of hill-sprints/drills a week vs. 10 more miles a week if you're already running 40-50 miles a week and trying to break 3. Or simply running faster more often.

(I understand that running more miles should also improve your running technique just from feedback / repetition, etc, but I think there's added value from paying specific attention to running relaxed at speed).

I won't post pbs as they're all from different times and run in different contexts. I'm very definitely on the speedier end but I have run a 2:51 marathon off lowish mileage (in support of my above argument!).

What you are saying here sounds like it makes a lot of sense.

However - am I aware of anyone who has changed their performance levels as a result of changing their running style/ biomechanics? Not really.

What in practice does this mean?

To put it another way; it sounds like 'physio speak' - but does it ever happen in the real world.....

Testosterscone

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

There's another problem, and it shows up when you get older.

My body just can't seem to handle speedwork any more. This spring I had a great training cycle until the moment I started introducing faster work. Despite doing it very gradually and never even getting close to fast pace I got one injury that set me back 2 months and a series of niggles on top of that, all of them coming after (fairly gentle) sessions.

My coach says it's very typical for runners over 45.

Remember being at a seminar a while back and talking about masters runners/injury prone runners there was discussion about speed work and the use of hill reps (200, 300, 400) replacing track work early season to decrease injury risk as the effort levels could be attained to train anaerobically while bio mechanically putting less pressure on on hamstring and glute muscle fibre recruitment, which normally is one of the underlying issues for many when the fast track work starts.

This and flexibility and mobility were big talking points and was pretty interesting discussion.

Testosterscone

Tombo2001 wrote: »

What you are saying here sounds like it makes a lot of sense.

However - am I aware of anyone who has changed their performance levels as a result of changing their running style/ biomechanics? Not really.

What in practice does this mean?

To put it another way; it sounds like 'physio speak' - but does it ever happen in the real world.....

I think it does happen but I think it's probably a bit more subtle and normally attributed to just being fitter

Runners who look stronger in the latter stages or indeed just simply the notion of "looking like a runner" which is often described. Some of this can be attributed to runners getting strong but there is definitely an element which is overlooked.

I think it was Hartmann who mentioned in an article last year that majority of runners in this country would probably be better off dropping one run a week for supplementary work in terms of overall running performance.

TFBubendorfer

spc78 wrote: »

What type of surface did you do this speedwork on? Any type of surface other than grass really hurts me if I do speedwork.

Not having access to a track I did them all on the road, as I had done for the previous 13 years.

I moved a couple of months ago and now have more options available, but that was not in time for this training cycle.

Sacksian

Tombo2001 wrote: »

What you are saying here sounds like it makes a lot of sense.

However - am I aware of anyone who has changed their performance levels as a result of changing their running style/ biomechanics? Not really.

What in practice does this mean?

To put it another way; it sounds like 'physio speak' - but does it ever happen in the real world.....

Fair point - when I say biomechanics, I guess I'm using it in a slightly more informal way than what a physio might recommend. More about paying attention to the amount of energy required to run at a certain pace (whatever your mechanics are) and, more importantly, whether you're likely to get faster over multiple distances by investing an hour a week into looking at that vs. the investment of more miles. Rather than a cookie-cutter "x method" running style approach.

In practice, it could mean some training of your fast-twitch fibers, hill sprints, bounding or, more basically, doing one FT-style session every couple of weeks. So, instead of doing 20 x 400 off 45s/1min where you're being challenged aerobically, you could break it up into sets with longer recoveries between 400s and sets, and the focus becomes more about maintaining good form.

Testo's point about "looking like a runner" is actually quite close to what I have in mind - I think that can be practiced and that it will benefit your efficiency. Running is a simple sport, but it's also still a skill and I think when adults take it up later in life, they might miss out on loads of the stuff that kids get taught through drills, etc. (I'm still not sure if I know how to do strides!).

zulutango

gucci wrote: »

I need to race a bit more, and I need to sort out that half marathon time!!

Your 5k, 10k, 10mile and half marathon are very similar to mine. I haven't run a marathon but would like to be in around the 3 hour mark. Might not be realistic though!

JohnDozer

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56:42|
BB67 <40|61:XX|2:08|4:24|9:09|15:48|27:29|33:30|57:29|1.18:10|N/A|
BB67 >40|N/A|2:17.4|4:57.4|9:51.5|16:52|28:42|36:00|59:45|1:19:55|2:55:51|
Jamule|72|2:31|5:16|10:31|17:59|29:46|38:40|1:04:42|1:26:57|3:20:11|
ger664|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:45|n/a|41:11|69:33|1:35:36|3:18:12
TFBubendorfer|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17:51|29:26|37:58|60:16|1:23:36|2:55:07
Krusty_Clown|60:01|2:16?|4:49|9:24|15:46|26:14|32:43|53:36|1:12:41|2:30:01
pconn062|59:XX|2:08:XX?|4:53|9:45|16:59|29:40|36:55|63:??|1:29:XX|N/A
gucci|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|18:42|N/A|39:30|1:05:38|1:30:05|3:04:17
johndozer|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:52|34:06|42:18|71:00|1:36:31|3:59:30|


Project Marathon is underway...

conavitzky

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56:42|
BB67 <40|61:XX|2:08|4:24|9:09|15:48|27:29|33:30|57:29|1.18:10|N/A|
BB67 >40|N/A|2:17.4|4:57.4|9:51.5|16:52|28:42|36:00|59:45|1:19:55|2:55:51|
Jamule|72|2:31|5:16|10:31|17:59|29:46|38:40|1:04:42|1:26:57|3:20:11|
ger664|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:45|n/a|41:11|69:33|1:35:36|3:18:12
TFBubendorfer|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17:51|29:26|37:58|60:16|1:23:36|2:55:07
Krusty_Clown|60:01|2:16?|4:49|9:24|15:46|26:14|32:43|53:36|1:12:41|2:30:01
pconn062|59:XX|2:08:XX?|4:53|9:45|16:59|29:40|36:55|63:??|1:29:XX|N/A
gucci|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|18:42|N/A|39:30|1:05:38|1:30:05|3:04:17
johndozer|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:52|34:06|42:18|71:00|1:36:31|3:59:30|
Conavitzky|n/a|n/a|n/a|9:52|16:50|27:58|35:06|1:03:14|1:21:06|2:46:23|

Hope to take a chunk off the 10 mile this year (only ran one) and also the half. Think bar these my times line up pretty good although that running zone right around LT (10 mile and half times) seems to be my weakness. I find it hard to run a prolonged period at LT pace.

zulutango

Name|400m|800m|1 mile|3k|5k|5mile|10k|10miles|Half Marathon|Marathon
Testosterscone|59.59|2.08|4.41|9.20|16.15|26.35|34.10|56.54|1.16.01|2.43.03|
Adrian522||2.45||12.26|20.00|32.54|42.08|72.09|1.39.15|3.26.56|
Wubble Wubble|n/a|2.46|6.11|n/a|20.03|34.08|43.32|74.13|1.37.30|3.49.01|
kin9pin|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|21.46|37.53|48.38|81.38|1.46.53|4.16.44|
Wottle|n/a|2:30|n/a|n/a|19:25|33:07|n/a|69:17|1:38:07|3.37.38|
Singer|||5.50||18.45|31:47|39.23|67.46|1.28.28|3.32.04|
Murph_D|n/a|2:37|5:54|n/a|20:21|33:53|44:15|71:33|1:37:19|3:28:28|
Itziger|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17.50|29.50|36.48|n/a|1.22.04|2.59.09|
RayCun|n/a|2:27|5:29?|n/a|17:24|28:46|36:25|1:01:40|1:22:17|2:56:42|
BB67 <40|61:XX|2:08|4:24|9:09|15:48|27:29|33:30|57:29|1.18:10|N/A|
BB67 >40|N/A|2:17.4|4:57.4|9:51.5|16:52|28:42|36:00|59:45|1:19:55|2:55:51|
Jamule|72|2:31|5:16|10:31|17:59|29:46|38:40|1:04:42|1:26:57|3:20:11|
ger664|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:45|n/a|41:11|69:33|1:35:36|3:18:12
TFBubendorfer|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|17:51|29:26|37:58|60:16|1:23:36|2:55:07
Krusty_Clown|60:01|2:16?|4:49|9:24|15:46|26:14|32:43|53:36|1:12:41|2:30:01
pconn062|59:XX|2:08:XX?|4:53|9:45|16:59|29:40|36:55|63:??|1:29:XX|N/A
gucci|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|18:42|N/A|39:30|1:05:38|1:30:05|3:04:17
johndozer|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|19:52|34:06|42:18|71:00|1:36:31|3:59:30|
Conavitzky|n/a|n/a|n/a|9:52|16:50|27:58|35:06|1:03:14|1:21:06|2:46:23|
zulutango |N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|18:44|N/A|39:41|N/A|1:31:07|N/A