Large Glass Sliding Door

irishbuzz

Hi All,

Planning to install a 3.8m wide, 2.2m tall Lift+Slide door in our new home. Example attached below.

Given the size of the hole I'll be opening up I would like to keep it triple glazing and also to have a fairly low overall u-value for the entire door.

Would love to hear from people who have installed similar on what they think is the right way to go? Thermally-broken aluminium? Alu-Clad? Other?

I have searched the forum but most of the previous threads had their recommendations by PM only so I'm hoping somebody can recommend me via PM also.

Thanks in advance, it's greatly appreciated.

large-patio-sliding-door.jpg

Calahonda52

There is plenty on the site on this topic that is not by pm.

1. weight is an issue: I have contributed on this issue, especially for 3G.
2. quality/longevity of mechanism
3. who installs and gives warranty: the skills required here are beyond
   • all white van builders
   • many window and door installers
   • even some specialist installers
   so it should be supply/fit and warranty from the one entity which has a deep pocket and good track record, and not one with a provincial location

irishbuzz

Thanks for the reply Calahonda52. I hear what you're saying regarding the above and I have found topics on it and some dos & don'ts. I know that PVC won't do the job and triple-glaze introduces extra weight etc.

I suppose the issue is that all companies herald their own product and talk their own waffle to the point it's difficult for a lay person like myself to know the good from the bad.

I'm hoping for feedback from those who have installed similar doors (especially if they have them in place for a number of years) and either would or wouldn't recommend their supplier. Obviously, though this can only be provided by PM.

I'm in the same boat and would appreciate any advice or PMs.

(although I don't get the PM thing? If people have had a genuine interaction with a company, why is it not allowed be discussed? This seems very noticeable in relation to window/door companies in particular.

Plenty of other businesses get recommended or slated on boards, but trying to gt any info about windows or doors is like pulling teeth. I don't get it, at all.

BryanF

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm in the same boat and would appreciate any advice or PMs.

(although I don't get the PM thing? If people have had a genuine interaction with a company, why is it not allowed be discussed? This seems very noticeable in relation to window/door companies in particular.

Plenty of other businesses get recommended or slated on boards, but trying to gt any info about windows or doors is like pulling teeth. I don't get it, at all.

Make a financially backed declaration to boards.ie that when a window company sues boards.ie for slander, you'll pay the bill..

mod note: comments on specific companies or Recommendations by PM thanks. Refer to section 3 of the forum charter http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055036302

DOCARCH

Deleted User wrote: »

If people have had a genuine interaction with a company, why is it not allowed be discussed?

That has been a problem in the past...the genuine bit! Boards cannot verify who is posting comments!

Calahonda52

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm in the same boat and would appreciate any advice or PMs.

(although I don't get the PM thing? If people have had a genuine interaction with a company, why is it not allowed be discussed? This seems very noticeable in relation to window/door companies in particular.

Plenty of other businesses get recommended or slated on boards, but trying to gt any info about windows or doors is like pulling teeth. I don't get it, at all.

As per the mods, it too damn hard to patrol so easier to eliminate the problem at source, don't allow it in public.

Dudda

After reading the rules and in particular:

"3.(a) With the exception of large, national or multi-national businesses who really don’t need the free advertising, posts naming specific companies/traders and/or their products are discouraged and may be deleted and the poster warned or banned or both."

I'm going to state who I used as they are one largest window company in Europe (hard to find out exactly who the biggest is with parent companies and partnerships but their in the top 5 anyway by overall turnover after a quick google search). If this post gets removed or edited then sorry but I did read the rules and do research prior to posting.

I've an Internorm KS 430 which is 5.5 meter wide lift and slide I'm very happy with and have just under a year. Made in Austria (not naming Irish companies) it's PVC, clad in aluminium and passive house certified. It's just two large pieces of triple glazed each weighing about 425kg. They do timber alu clad but that's heavier and more expensive again. Considering the weight it moves really well. You'll do it with one hand but not a baby finger. I've a large steel 254 RSJ above and built a concrete upstand for the door to rest it on which I had designed by my structural engineer. As it's a big company it comes with all the relevant certification and guarantees and trained installers. As an architect I've specified something similar on another few projects since but it was removed from most due to cost as it isn't the cheapest. Can't name the company these went with instead but most with with a well known Irish company. You can definitely find cheaper and with the original poster having a 3.8m wide ope will have more options. I had trouble getting companies to do one 5.5 meters wide without dividing the ope into three or four pieces.

Things I'd consider are going to the show room of companies you're interested in. I went to 5 and also trade shows like those in the RDS. If it's a very chunky frame to keep cost down then consider and you hide some of the frame with plasterboard or external plaster. I've external insulation and plasterboard hiding most my frame and this also improves it's thermal performance further. Check the type of glass and consider over heating if it's facing due south. These very big lift and slides can produce a lot of solar gain. Mine generates a net gain of 421 kWh/a which is a lot of heat in a passive house considering it faces east. If it was south facing the room would be an oven on hot days. Pay attention to the threshold detail. How does it stop water getting in if you've your finished floor level with the outside patio area. Don't worry to much about the weight if it's a good track and ironmongery system but do consider another window in the room for general ventilation. While you can lock these open an inch or two it's not idea. The aluminium outside (and either pvc or timber inside) reduces maintenance and you don't have to repaint it externally regularly.

Calahonda52

Good post Dudda, thank you.
Who did the install and what access was required: Crane?
How wide is the ope, if the door is 5.5?

Dudda

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Good post Dudda, thank you.
Who did the install and what access was required: Crane?
How wide is the ope, if the door is 5.5?

Can't say the name of the installer here I think. Ireland has two I know of, one in Dublin and another up north. We went with the one up north.
We had a teleporter and they had to bring large suction lifter fitted to it. The first day they had one team to fit the smaller windows elsewhere and the second two teams to maneuver the larger ones into place. The door is half the 5.5m wide ope so 2.75m when fully open. it's split even with just the two large sections if you follow.

GraceKav

Really useful info, thanks Dudda.

We're doing plans at the moment which have a large open plan kitchen living, west facing with a 4m sliding door and a 5m sliding door. We are hoping to have a three-paned, sliding, tilt and turn on both in order to maximise the opening.

Like the OP, we are going for triple glazed and as energy efficient as possible. Doing PHPP calcs next month when our architect is back from holidays as we have concerns about overheating especially with the low hanging west sun in the evenings with so much glass.

Have been scouring Boards and going to a self build show in September to get some ideas but would really welcome any feedback anyone has about similar via PM. Noone we know has gone for the three paned sliding doors yet where two slide behind the third so would especially welcome any feedback on that. Really want to get as slim borders as we can but know that this can be costly. Not too fussed about pvc vs alu-clad vs timber - more about performance, thin frames and reliability.

Dudda

That's a lot of window for one room. I would check the overheating in PHPP for that definitely.
Don't really understand how it's tilt and turn and sliding. If it's 5 meter wide ope you intend to have 3 glass sections about 1.6 meters wide that all slide to one side so you have an opening that's about 3.2 meters fully open. Sounds great but my only concern is the depth. When you have a slider each section is about 100mm deep. With two sections you've a frame about 220 to 250mm in total. If you have three sections that can all slide over each other you'll have a frame that about 320 to 350mm deep. That's a very deep frame. You can't hide as it's only the face you can hide with plasterboard or render.

Calahonda52

Dudda wrote: »

Can't say the name of the installer here I think. Ireland has two I know of, one in Dublin and another up north. We went with the one up north.
We had a teleporter and they had to bring large suction lifter fitted to it. The first day they had one team to fit the smaller windows elsewhere and the second two teams to maneuver the larger ones into place. The door is half the 5.5m wide ope so 2.75m when fully open. it's split even with just the two large sections if you follow.

Good stuff, its what I thought re the width.

tedimc

I used the same manufacturer and installer as Dudda - 2 lift & slides,
one is 4m in total,
the other 5.5m - but is 3 panes (only middle one opens).

PVC, with alu-clad on the exterior. Serious weight, but couldn't be happier. Extremely well made window.

GraceKav

Dudda wrote: »

That's a lot of window for one room. I would check the overheating in PHPP for that definitely.
Don't really understand how it's tilt and turn and sliding. If it's 5 meter wide ope you intend to have 3 glass sections about 1.6 meters wide that all slide to one side so you have an opening that's about 3.2 meters fully open. Sounds great but my only concern is the depth. When you have a slider each section is about 100mm deep. With two sections you've a frame about 220 to 250mm in total. If you have three sections that can all slide over each other you'll have a frame that about 320 to 350mm deep. That's a very deep frame. You can't hide as it's only the face you can hide with plasterboard or render.

Yeah I'm definitely concerned about overheating. We have the 4m expanse of glass inset about a metre under the roof which will provide some relief but am conscious that with the low lying western sun, this may not be as effective. Am hoping some judicious use of summer planting/deciduous trees may help. Definitely won't proceed without the PHPP anyway.

Think I'm probably mixing up tilt and turn/lift and slide. Think its the tilt and turn we were thinking of going with but after reading on here that the tilt with large doors isn't recommended, may have to rethink that.

Don't mind about the deep frame to accommodate the three sliders. Really want a room that opens out to the outside as much as possible and willing to take a deep frame to get that. Have seen tons of pictures of them online but just haven't gotten feedback in real life yet from anyone who has them.

ht9zni1gs28crp

I have a 4m wide twin pane unit lift and slide. Nice and heavy, can lock itself in any open position. Very similar to the picture you posted.

Great company out of Sligo who also do a Passive Certified range.

chillit

If anyone has a good threshold detail for these big sliding door it would be much appreciated. I am a little worried about the inside and outside floor level being almost identical but it seems the standard approach these days and of course improves usability

ht9zni1gs28crp

People will be reluctant to hand over detailed drawings free of charge! Some of us put lots of time / or hand over decent money for these.

But anyways, you need to combine a decent cold bridge detail along with a drainage detail to show it correctly. You will also need to know your airtight line along with the intended/approved installation detail of the sliding door.

chillit

Fair point I suppose although people on here are usually quite helpful

ht9zni1gs28crp

chillit wrote: »

Fair point I suppose although people on here are usually quite helpful

I know, used to be. But sadly this platform has descended into naysayers and people just out to knock others. Lots of people wont stick their heads above the parapet now.

FixdePitchmark

Great info here.

We looked at a 5M one today - it has 2 sliding parts and 2 fixed.

I'll be honest didn't consider this at all. Is solar gain that much of a concern ? to ask a daft question - on a rare day in Ireland that that would be an issue - would you not just open this great big door you have ?

mrsWhippy

I expect solar gain wouldn't be as much of an issue with triple glazed?

I'm looking for a 2.5m high, 3.2m wide lift and slide. Thinking 3G aluminum ...anybody have one of these and care to comment? There seems to be one main supplier of alu windows in Ireland...

sydthebeat

mrsWhippy wrote: »

I expect solar gain wouldn't be as much of an issue with triple glazed?

I'm looking for a 2.5m high, 3.2m wide lift and slide. Thinking 3G aluminum ...anybody have one of these and care to comment? There seems to be one main supplier of alu windows in Ireland...

Solar gain is more of an issue with triple glazed than double glazed, as they allow in more solar heat than they allow out.
Double glazed allows more heat in than triple, but allows much more out.

Triple glazed units in a passive house are all like little heat energy creaters.

If the construction is anyway close to passive, solar overheating in summer should be considered.