Male Infertility

stesaurus

I was going to go un-registered for this but actually after writing this out I've changed my mind. There's nothing really to be ashamed of so here goes. I'm not sure where this best fits, maybe trying to conceive but that seems to be 99.9% female and I'd really prefer the male opinion around this one. Maybe even personal issues but I'll try you lads first and see if that clears up some of my thoughts.

Ok so background. I'm with my now wife around 12 years. We've been trying to have kids probably the last 8 or 9 years. The first 4/5 of those we didn't put any pressure on ourselves and it was just a case of coming off the pill and if it happens it happens. It didn't, so a few years ago we started being a little more active in trying. Better health, fertile periods of the month etc. etc. Still nothing after a few more years.
In the past year or so we've tried unconventional things like herbal remedies, supplements and acupuncture and still nada so we finally bit the bullet and went to a clinic. I can't put my finger on it but I've always been very hesitant with this route. I'm quite against the idea of IVF and still not entirely sure in my mind of why.

We went for all the consultations and explained what options there are. IVF being very prominent but they understood I wasn't keen. I was hoping one of the tests would show a simple issue to solve either medically/surgically.
All of these tests at the beginning focus on the woman. Not sure why but it seems male fertility is just an afterthought. Even amongst friends/family who know by now we must have some issue just assume it's going to be my wife with the problem. I always found that weird and something inside kept saying its me.
One small issue came up with my wife but nothing preventing pregnancy. So then the focus switched to me. First up is the semen analysis. That was an interesting day in itself and definitely a story for another day. I hadn't heard back the results so I rang up a few days after and they emailed them to me. I'm not a doctor but reading azoospermia and mentioning zero sperm count is obviously not good reading. A lot of googling later and it's hit me. I'm firing blanks and it's not a pleasant feeling, manhood out the window. The why is all I can focus on and hope that it's some blockage that can be rectified, maybe I got a kick or something?
Next up in the process and I needed a lot of different bloods and also an ultrasound. I'm a regular donor so bloods are fine for me but the ultrasound was interesting. Strip off onto a bed with two female technicians and then cover your shaft with a piece of paper but leave your balls enjoying the breeze. Cold gel and vigorous prodding with no happy endings!
I got the results yesterday and well it wasn't what we hoped. No blockage or any other fixable issue. My hormone levels basically suggest my body is overcompensating trying to produce sperm but it's not happening. It's some sort of developmental abnormality that probably happened before I was even born. What they want to do next is have an exploratory biopsy to see can they find even small amounts of sperm in the testes and use that for IVF. That would be a large longshot so the thinking is a sperm donor instead.
Now this is the crux of why I'm posting as I'm struggling to wrap my head around this. My wife and female doctor jump to this without a second thought. It's the same online. Any research I'm coming across seems to be wives taking about their DH (Dear Husband, bloody hell) and speaking about using a donor like it's nothing. Even when their husband has said no they still continue the research and prep in anticipation of convincing him.

A donor wouldn't be my child. It would be my wife's and I'd raise it as my own but biologically no. I'm not even sure what rights I'd have legally and actually don't really want to look into it. I don't like the idea the same way IVF just doesn't sit right with me. IVF is a rabbit hole of huge costs, excitement, disappointment and stress that I'm not interested in. I don't 'need' a kid that badly. I would much rather adopt and foster. Spending so much money and all the hassle that goes with it to have your own child when there's so many out there without proper care just pisses me off. My wife knows all this but I can tell she's wanting to convince me to go the donor route so she can carry a baby. I'm just struggling with the whole thing. Am I being an insensitive ass for not giving her what she's dreamed of? Would I have negative thoughts towards another man's child inside my wife. Going through pregnancy is somewhat of a partnership these days but I'm not sure i'd feel that way if it wasn't mine. I just don't want it but am I wrong?

TLDR looks like I'm completely infertile. Wife wants to convince me to use a donor and it kind of sickens me. Am I the problem?

helimachoptor

yes the genetic material wouldn't be yours, but in every other way it would be your child, you would be at the scans, at the birth and the first poop explosion when the crawl, walk etc.

It's a **** situation in fairness, but would you prefer to be childless? You could look at adopting but then the child isn't part of your wife either.

Also fair play to you for posting.

sorry just looking at your edit, using a donor means the child is simply speaking 50% of your wife but none of you and you dont want to do this, but adopting is 0% of either of you and you're fine, i don't understand your view here.

Tefral

I've no experience with male fertility outside of the usual, "so, when are you having kids" after you get married thing. I don't have kids at the moment, but I have started to say to people when they ask, "How do you know we can have kids" it pretty much kills the question off, but in the back of my head i've wondered, "what if i cant"

I was speaking about this whole thing recently with a friend, its mad, when your a teenager, you are basically told, if you even touch off a girl she will get pregnant. Its completely at odds with a post like yours and something that does have an affect on people.

With regards the sperm donor thing, i would be in your corner, no way would i go along with that. Id rather give some poor child that had no family a second chance at a decent life.

Radiant Cool Crazy Nightmare

I wouldnt feel comfortable at all going the donor route either. You will be expected to raise the child and be the father figure, its a massive commitment and not one that you should be bullied or forced into. Do whatever feels right by yourself, its a massive decision and I do not envy you. Best of luck to you.

stesaurus

helimachoptor wrote: »

yes the genetic material wouldn't be yours, but in every other way it would be your child, you would be at the scans, at the birth and the first poop explosion when the crawl, walk etc.

It's a **** situation in fairness, but would you prefer to be childless? You could look at adopting but then the child isn't part of your wife either.

Also fair play to you for posting.

Thanks it's not something I'd have a chat with friends with and there's not much online that isn't female dominated so here I am.
It's such an odd situation regarding the donor. I'd have no issue raising an adopted child or starting a relationship with a woman who already had a kid. I'd be fine with it and would see myself as the dad but for some reason I can't with regards a donor.
Something inside me is just telling me I'd resent that child and it scares the crap out of me. What is wrong with me, it's not normal.

Balmed Out

First off I'm sorry to hear that its a very tough break.

Second off you need to ask your wife to give you some time, she cant expect you to be able to make a reasoned decision that your happy with long term on the back of terrible news. I guess she is probably relieved that the issue has been found and its not on her end but she should be a lot more sympathetic then she seems to be.

I can only imagine you are very emotional at the moment but I dont think adopting is so easy as you might assume.
Why would an adopted child be any less or more yours then one from a donor?
Is the whole misery loves company thing clouding your judgment that if you cant be a biological father then neither can your wife?

I had testicular cancer years ago with two kids since but I was terrified of not being able to so while I dont know how it is to go through it I can ever so slightly empathize. Would it be weird for you to ask a brother or father ? I remember thinking about that and coming to the conclusion that a brother would be too weird but that if it came to it I would ask my Dad.

Best of luck.

stesaurus

Tefral wrote: »

I've no experience with male fertility outside of the usual, "so, when are you having kids" after you get married thing. I don't have kids at the moment, but I have started to say to people when they ask, "How do you know we can have kids" it pretty much kills the question off, but in the back of my head i've wondered, "what if i cant"

I was speaking about this whole thing recently with a friend, its mad, when your a teenager, you are basically told, if you even touch off a girl she will get pregnant. Its completely at odds with a post like yours and something that does have an affect on people.

With regards the sperm donor thing, i would be in your corner, no way would i go along with that. Id rather give some poor child that had no family a second chance at a decent life.

Such a horrible question that really gets to you sometimes. I'm not overly sensitive but people just don't think sometimes. Although I've been guilty of asking it also

helimachoptor

stesaurus wrote: »

Thanks it's not something I'd have a chat with friends with and there's not much online that isn't female dominated so here I am.
It's such an odd situation regarding the donor. I'd have no issue raising an adopted child or starting a relationship with a woman who already had a kid. I'd be fine with it and would see myself as the dad but for some reason I can't with regards a donor.
Something inside me is just telling me I'd resent that child and it scares the crap out of me. What is wrong with me, it's not normal.

i think the donor issues comes from the fear that you arent a "man" and cant provide a baby, all normal.

tbh my only concern with the donor thing would be your wife during an argument "its my baby not yours" would be heat of the moment stuff but it would knock the stuffing out of you for sure.


as an aside, male fertility is the coming storm, but thats for another day.

stesaurus

Balmed Out wrote: »

First off I'm sorry to hear that its a very tough break.

Second off you need to ask your wife to give you some time, she cant expect you to be able to make a reasoned decision that your happy with long term on the back of terrible news. I guess she is probably relieved that the issue has been found and its not on her end but she should be a lot more sympathetic then she seems to be.

I can only imagine you are very emotional at the moment but I dont think adopting is so easy as you might assume.
Why would an adopted child be any less or more yours then one from a donor?
Is the whole misery loves company thing clouding your judgment that if you cant be a biological father then neither can your wife?

I had testicular cancer years ago with two kids since but I was terrified of not being able to so while I dont know how it is to go through it I can ever so slightly empathize. Would it be weird for you to ask a brother or father ? I remember thinking about that and coming to the conclusion that a brother would be too weird but that if it came to it I would ask my Dad.

Best of luck.

I'm probably not painting her in the right light. She's been great really but I know her inside out. I said no to IVF from the time it first popped up maybe 10 years ago and I'm the same with the donor idea but I just know her well enough to know that she thinks she can change my mind. And reading online it's very similar to other wives.

Yes adoption will be really long and expensive in itself. I'm ok with that because I love the idea of helping a child who really needs a family. IVF and sperm donors etc. just seem selfish to me.
Fostering could happen in the short to medium term and again something I know would be really rewarding but difficult at the same time.

Mokuba

stesaurus wrote: »

Thanks it's not something I'd have a chat with friends with and there's not much online that isn't female dominated so here I am.
It's such an odd situation regarding the donor. I'd have no issue raising an adopted child or starting a relationship with a woman who already had a kid. I'd be fine with it and would see myself as the dad but for some reason I can't with regards a donor.
Something inside me is just telling me I'd resent that child and it scares the crap out of me. What is wrong with me, it's not normal.

It's exactly how I reckon I'd feel in the same situation, so maybe we both aren't normal.

One thing is certain, you need a lot of time - and not to rush into anything.

stesaurus

helimachoptor wrote: »

i think the donor issues comes from the fear that you arent a "man" and cant provide a baby, all normal.

tbh my only concern with the donor thing would be your wife during an argument "its my baby not yours" would be heat of the moment stuff but it would knock the stuffing out of you for sure.


as an aside, male fertility is the coming storm, but thats for another day.

That's gone through my mind for sure. She would probably never say it but you never know for sure

_Brian

As the father of two adopted children I think your overthinking allot of stuff about genetics and biological children.

Don't be ashamed to go and have a chat with a councillor about how your feeling, perhaps a session or two as a couple would do no harm either, what you've been through hasn't been easy.

I don't have an opinion either way on your situation but no matter what you shouldn't feel pressured into anything your not comfortable with.

howamidifferent

It may be selfish but I know as a man I could never contemplate the idea of a donor. The child would not be mine ( even though no guarantee unless you get a DNA test done that any child is your own as a male). It must be a hard-wired into the male brain to reject the idea of raising another man's child. As someone else said, I wouldn't have a problem with a woman who already had kids but the thought of watching my wife carry another man's child just screams NO, never, not under any circumstances. Your story saddens me but I think in your shoes I just couldn't agree to the donor option.

stesaurus

howamidifferent wrote: »

It may be selfish but I know as a man I could never contemplate the idea of a donor. The child would not be mine ( even though no guarantee unless you get a DNA test done that any child is your own as a male). It must be a hard-wired into the male brain to reject the idea of raising another man's child. As someone else said, I wouldn't have a problem with a woman who already had kids but the thought of watching my wife carry another man's child just screams NO, never, not under any circumstances. Your story saddens me but I think in your shoes I just couldn't agree to the donor option.

I'm seeing a lot of similarities there. At least that's somewhat comforting that I'm not the only one who'd think this way.

Someone said it earlier, "misery loves company" and maybe there's something to that. I'd be settling and swallowing my pride but my wife would get to carry the child she's dreamt of her whole life. There's an element of jealousy there which isn't normally part of my makeup.
So on top of everything I feel enormous guilt and ashamed that I can't be what she signed up to. I'm a fraud of a man not able to provide her with kids.

I'd feel similar in hypothetical scenario. If the roles were reversed and you kept researching and pushing for it would that be ok? Hells no.

gabsdot40

I'm the DW of a man with azoospermia. I'm heartbroken for you and your wife. I fertility is just awful. It was by far the worst thing that ever happened to us.

My husband was always against using donor sperm but we did go for a couple session with a clinic about it and we realised that it was not the road for us. We felt we would have to tell people but that, that would not be fair on my husband to have his 'failing' so often brought to the forefront.

You and your wife need to communicate well and be honest. I never regretted being married to my husband. I didn't blame him. It's just one of those genetic lotteries.

We adopted 2 children so we finally have our family. I hope you find joy in whatever path you take.

Mokuba

As you can see, even from the small few responses so far, on a man's subforum - most are in agreement with you over the donor issue.

Don't feel that your opinion is selfish/wrong - a lot of men feel the same.

Remember that point because I feel that in the coming weeks and months you could be listening to a lot of one sided opinions, and be told that you should feel a certain way.

stesaurus

gabsdot40 wrote: »

I'm the DW of a man with azoospermia. I'm heartbroken for you and your wife. I fertility is just awful. It was by far the worst thing that ever happened to us.

My husband was always against using donor sperm but we did go for a couple session with a clinic about it and we realised that it was not the road for us. We felt we would have to tell people but that, that would not be fair on my husband to have his 'failing' so often brought to the forefront.

You and your wife need to communicate well and be honest. I never regretted being married to my husband. I didn't blame him. It's just one of those genetic lotteries.

We adopted 2 children so we finally have our family. I hope you find joy in whatever path you take.

I'd hate to have to lie about using a sperm donor and for it to be a dirty secret but conversely I'd hate for everyone to know also. There's a stigma there definitely.

Thanks for sharing that. I'm glad it worked out for you in the end. Can I ask how long and difficult was the adoption process?

LegacyUser

OP apologies for the length as well as going unregged for this but don't like giving private info out. Anyways I have some understanding of your situation as we were in a similar boat a few years back. The only difference was it was my wife who was told she could never conceive naturally after two failed rounds of IVF. We were told our best and probably only option was to go the egg donor route.

To say we were devastated would be an understatement. Was very very hard to get our head around, after years of trying, at first like yourselves not too worried, then a bit of concern and finally IVF so it looked like we'd really run out of options, so much so we started preparing an adoption application although my heart wasn't in that, I went along more for my wife then any real desire to raise a child not my own.

We did think of going the egg donor route, lot of agonising over it. I knew if I said it was a route I was willing for us to take she would do it, but I also knew what it would cost her to give me a child that was mine but not hers. Because of that it the end I told her my preference was both of us or neither. So we didn't go through with it.

In the end by a chance conversation with one of my mates wives we checked out another approach called Napro. Not sure what if any help they may be able to provide given what you've said so not sure if it's in any way useful. But how you describe your situation reminds me a lot of the medical advice we were given, in our case the Sims clinic, supposedly one of the best told us in no uncertain terms we'd no option but to yet again cough up a load of cash, this time for someone else's egg.

So maybe this will be no help to you, but you never know.

Napro ran a series of tests and presented a very different picture. As it stood whether it was her's or some strangers my wife would never have been able to conceive. So Napro took a holistic approach, through tests, close monitoring, diet, supplements etc and said within 6 months her system should be in balance. 6 months later at one of her monthly checkups she was told everything looked great so there was nothing to prevent a pregnancy happening over the next 6 months. 1 week later she was pregnant, that was over a year ago and we have a beautiful baby girl to show for it.

We've often thought what would have happened if that chance conversation hadn't happened, if instead we had gone with Sims "only" option?

Again OP not sure if they can be of any help to you but it might be worth looking into. Another nice thing about them is they don't treat the male partner as an spectator, got a lot of that myself with Sims (never once referred to by name if at all even when they had it in front of them) so it was quite a novelty to be spoken and treated like I had a stake in this other than a contribution in a cup

Paullimerick

As a father myself. I know where u are coming from.with the donor. If I am honest and not trying to sound mean at all. And each to there own. I don't know would I be able to do it. But I do know I would still love the baby when it arrives. Yes with always that taught in your head. Best of luck either way.

_Brian

stesaurus wrote: »

I'd hate to have to lie about using a sperm donor and for it to be a dirty secret but conversely I'd hate for everyone to know also. There's a stigma there definitely.

Thanks for sharing that. I'm glad it worked out for you in the end. Can I ask how long and difficult was the adoption process?

I can't speak for the other lady but both of our Adoptions took 5 years to complete from first application to holding a child in our arms, it really isn't for the faint hearted.

I'm not sure if difficult is the right word but it is invasive and challenging being assessed on every aspect of your life to become a parent when it seems otherwise society doesn't care who is becoming parents fit or not.

However social workers have a tough job and it's a big responsibility assessing someone and giving the green light for them to be parents.

gabsdot40

Yes our adoptions both took about 5 years each.

Hellrazer

Op-Don't be so quick to give up.Id say the user similar situation used the same doctor as ourselves.

A friend of mine(and ourselves) was in a very similar situation.Basically told that he was infertile and donation was the only option.
I put him in touch with a doctor in Galway who specialises in infertility. We used him ourselves when we couldn't conceive either after multiple rounds of IVF and my wife undergoing explorative surgery.

Napro is more female centered whereas the treatment my friend got was targeted specifically for him.He managed to go from basically zero viable sperm to just below normal levels with the treatment. It was a mixture of hormone and immune systems treatments if I remember correctly.

The man in my opinion is a miracle worker. We wouldn't have had our 2 younger ones without him and my friend wouldn't have had his 2 either.

Im not sure Im allowed to name the doctor here on the forum but if you search my posts in the trying to conceive forum you`ll find the details in one of my posts along with our whole story about trying to concieve.Failing that (or if you don't fancy searching through years of posts) pop me a pm and Ill give you his name and contact details.

stesaurus

Thanks for all the advice on this. I've found quite a few positive stories and possibly don't need to despair as there is still hope, even if slim it's worth a shot. My wife and I had another chat last night about it and agreed we need to at least seek a second opinion on it. I've got an appointment and also added to a cancellation list for some recommended doctors who specialize better than Sims.