Angus bull for commercial herd.

blonde10

We got out of cows as I was working away,we had a Charolais bull with too many operation,and too much jacking..is any one using an Angus bull for beef breeding,if so how do they find the progeny,does the ease of calving compromise the finished product...or when u weight one up against the other are they leaving as much profit as the big soft Charolais that came out by section....also what market would u target with the Angus..
Thanks.looking forward to your thoughts on this..

Who2

Plenty of limos out there just as easy calving and a far more saleable animal.

blue5000

blonde10 wrote: »

We got out of cows as I was working away,we had a Charolais bull with too many operation,and too much jacking..is any one using an Angus bull for beef breeding,if so how do they find the progeny,

Yes, using a son of mogeely joe here. Easy calved, weaning weight wouldn't be on a par with a charolais, but carcase weights would compare well with a blonde:p


does the ease of calving compromise the finished product...

No, but need to be finishing them to get the most out of them.

or when u weight one up against the other are they leaving as much profit as the big soft Charolais that came out by section....
also what market would u target with the Angus..

UK supermarket trade, not sure how that's going to pan out after Brexit though.
Thanks.looking forward to your thoughts on this..

Main reason for them here is to produce replacement heifers.

Don't forget a lot depends on the type of cow you are crossing the angus on to, the heaviest angus I've had was about 420kg cw at 24 months out of a lim x fr cow, but rough average would be around 370 kg cw for angus bulls.

Cattlepen

If you are going to finish the stock yourself I personally don't think you can beat Angus but if your breeding them to sell on as wean longs/stores it's a waste of time. You won't get paid around the ring for them.
If you fatten them they will kill lighter than Charolais but won't cost as much to feed. Then your Angus bonus as well brings them up a bit.
I have Angus commercialy for year and they are very easy to manage. Fertile, good milkers, never in the calving shed after 6 in the evening, no debudding, fatten off well managed grass

jfh

all already said, a lot depends on the cow, they crossed alright with CH or Lm cows but anything with AA in it, too much.
plus your stuck with them until you finish, don't have the option to sell a few weanling if you need to, went back to Limo.
you'd want to be spending money on a decent beef angus if you were going down that route, found it hard to get one as most are for the dairy herd

blue5000

jfh wrote: »

all already said, a lot depends on the cow, they crossed alright with CH or Lm cows but anything with AA in it, too much.
plus your stuck with them until you finish, don't have the option to sell a few weanling if you need to, went back to Limo.
you'd want to be spending money on a decent beef angus if you were going down that route, found it hard to get one as most are for the dairy herd

+1 but they are there even if they are not plentiful. OP it all depends on your system, forget about it if selling weanlings.

blonde10

Cattlepen wrote:

If you are going to finish the stock yourself I personally don't think you can beat Angus but if your breeding them to sell on as wean longs/stores it's a waste of time. You won't get paid around the ring for them. If you fatten them they will kill lighter than Charolais but won't cost as much to feed. Then your Angus bonus as well brings them up a bit. I have Angus commercialy for year and they are very easy to manage. Fertile, good milkers, never in the calving shed after 6 in the evening, no debudding, fatten off well managed grass

OK,so I guess really you need to be getting them through to slaughter...what would you think of putting an Angus on say a good limXblue heifer with a bit of shape,would calves carry a bit of flesh with them? Also is there any go for your Angus bull beef say under 16/18 mts...

wiggy123

to me, been biased(as I'm breed purebred angus cattle) Angus cattle are the best-will leave the most profit, with the least inputs cost..once get the right angus type.. of bull etc

blonde10

wiggy123 wrote:

to me, been biased(as I'm breed purebred angus cattle) Angus cattle are the best-will leave the most profit, with the least inputs cost..once get the right angus type.. of bull etc

In your opinion what's the best cross with the Angus bull to go on for finishing. Also what pedigree of the Angus would be a good beefy type for commercial Cows not dairy..without compromising on calving ease ..thanks

wiggy123

best cross -
char cow gives you brown/mousey colour--folk dislike
Lim-give good calf
BB -maybe calf can be to small
Sim- good match..

In general--Angus bull, will suit most-if cow has bit power/muscle... also milk is key, re rearing of a calf..

blonde10

wiggy123 wrote:

best cross - char cow gives you brown/mousey colour--folk dislike Lim-give good calf BB -maybe calf can be to small Sim- good match..

wiggy123 wrote:

In general--Angus bull, will suit most-if cow has bit power/muscle... also milk is key, re rearing of a calf..

In general Wiggy would you mostly sell out dairy herds or commercial herds..any names of Angus bull who is known to bring a nice bit of shape among his calves...we have a few nice square black limo heifers...and Il half thinking of giving a straw just to see what comes of them....

Cattlepen

blonde10 wrote: »

OK,so I guess really you need to be getting them through to slaughter...what would you think of putting an Angus on say a good limXblue heifer with a bit of shape,would calves carry a bit of flesh with them? Also is there any go for your Angus bull beef say under 16/18 mts...

I put the Angus Bull to every sort of cow and they always crossed well, continentals, Hereford etc. As the other man said you just need the right type of Angus Bull. Breeders are starting to breed their Bull specifically for the dairy market which I think is a mistake. Give it five years and there will be whinging as to where all the Angus beef breeding has gone.
I'm not sure that they pay Angus bonus on bulls??

Bellview

Cattlepen wrote:

I put the Angus Bull to every sort of cow and they always crossed well, continentals, Hereford etc. As the other man said you just need the right type of Angus Bull. Breeders are starting to breed their Bull specifically for the dairy market which I think is a mistake. Give it five years and there will be whinging as to where all the Angus beef breeding has gone. I'm not sure that they pay Angus bonus on bulls??

Agree with a lot of above but one of bigger issues in breed are the bulls going into ai . Some of the older lines which gave a good mix are gone and a lot of yhe imported bulls are rubbish either too hard calved or pure rats of cattle. .also ai have bought a lot of rossiter sons who are hard finished
Ncbc this year have bought effectively 4 bulls from the one herd under 3 different prefixes which is disappointing as sends a message that they are not looking too hard for bulls.
If on beef bunlahy bull in dovea look a good option.

wiggy123

bunlahy john be a gd bull to use..
MLJ also--bred nice stock

I've sold 3 bulls this year-all to dairy
Last year sold 3 bulls--dairy
Year before sold 4 bulls--2 to dairy, 2 suckler men!
be a lot of dairy folk around me!

Cattlepen

wiggy123 wrote: »

bunlahy john be a gd bull to use..
MLJ also--bred nice stock

I've sold 3 bulls this year-all to dairy
Last year sold 3 bulls--dairy
Year before sold 4 bulls--2 to dairy, 2 suckler men!
be a lot of dairy folk around me!

I'm selling them too for the last three years and it's been all dairy men. It's a kind of a fashion with them at the moment. Maybe it's just me but I prefer looking at the beefy type Angus. What about the Scottish Angus breeding? What's yer opinion about them?

wiggy123

True, I'd agree-like beefy type angus bulls also, to me its about a bit of length-not all height!
Scottish breeding--can breed them to big!
have use Homeville Pal-nice cattle, Belvin patriarch-plainsh, but ok!
use a mix--have a lot of irish bulls in my technician's tank--low stars!

Cattlepen

What I notice a bit about the Angus and also the limousines is an awful lot of them are developing scissor toe. It is going to be a big problem down the line

charolais0153

Cattlepen wrote: »

What I notice a bit about the Angus and also the limousines is an awful lot of them are developing scissor toe. It is going to be a big problem down the line

WSts that

Bellview

For suckling with angus I know of a few guys that are using red angus. They go ever second bull with limo so ghetto keep colour and have the benefit of poll when keeping heifers.

Cattlepen

charolais0153 wrote: »

WSts that

The points the hoof curling in towards each other. It follows on genetically

wiggy123

do see that myself