Weird issue - Ford 'cog wheel' warning light

Deliverance XXV

Weird Issue - Ford 'cog wheel' warning light

Hi all, just wondering if some Ford heads might be able to point me in the right direction as they may have seen this issue before. Reading similar forum posts scares me a little because none really have a definitive outcome - some even mention that the fault code didn't get stored after the warning light. I have a busy schedule with work over the next few weeks so not able to put it into a garage until then.

After a service (Ford Garage), a red warning light that looks like a cog wheel and an exclamation mark in it has been coming up fairly infrequently. Probably about once every 1-2 weeks. It happened a week after the service so it may or may not be related.

The warning light would come up when turning the engine on, do nothing and stay there until the engine turns off. Next time the engine turns on - no warning light for a week or so! I have since changed the air filter (garage never changed it...) in case it may be related. I changed it because sometimes when I open my petrol cap there can be quite a suction so I thought the air filter might be blocked or heavily restricted.

So, this is all OK but twice recently the car never started. It would try turn over but never would. The first time this happened I was in a car park when the car wouldn't start after about 10-15 goes so I got pi$$ed off and went off for a while before coming back and trying again, when this time the car started (albeit with the warning light again).

I didn't think much of it as the car has worked perfectly for the last 6 weeks (the light still comes on around once per week) but today the car wouldn't start again! So, I tried to turn it over around ten times again and then I thought I'd leave it like the last time. So, I left it for 20 mins, came back and the car started again (with the warning light) and has allowed me to drive as normal since then.

Any ideas?!My car is a 2005 Ford Focus 1.4 Petrol

I have done some internet searching on this and any results seem to point at a diesel focus which obviously doesn't apply here - so hopefully this thread can help future searchers!

TLDR;

• Can't bring car to garage for two weeks
• Every week or so, a cog wheel exclamation mark warning light shows on my dash
• Twice the car didn't start - both times the car started after 20mins inactivity and showed the warning light
• Plenty of references on the web to the light but most point at diesel versions
• Concerned that the car will fail me when I need it most. Murphy's Law.

Example of warning light:

bazz26

It's a warning symbol for the powertrain:

Scroll down here and it is listed near the bottom:

http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/ford-focus-dashboard-engine-warning-lights-symbols.html#prettyPhoto

Those engines were known to have problems with ignition coils so it might that but that's a guess, you would need the exact fault code read on a diagnostic computer.

Deliverance XXV

bazz26 wrote: »

It's a warning symbol for the powertrain:

Scroll down here and it is listed near the bottom:

http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/ford-focus-dashboard-engine-warning-lights-symbols.html#prettyPhoto

Those engines were known to have problems with ignition coils so it might that but that's a guess, you would need the exact fault code read on a diagnostic computer.

Thanks - I've seen that referenced on a few threads alright, even once on Boards: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056172696 but even in that thread, no stored faults were found. I've also found similar results on several other forum's threads.

So I guess I'm wondering if anyone has come across this before? I'm only after spending 500+ after recent NCT fail so not eager to put too much more money into a 05 car.

jimbis

Is the car driving okay or does it feel hesitant, or lumpy when sitting idle?

Deliverance XXV

jimbis wrote: »

Is the car driving okay or does it feel hesitant, or lumpy when sitting idle?

Seems fine to me to be honest - if by lumpy when idle, do you mean idle when sitting in traffic? Then yes, it would probably be a 'little' lumpy!

Henry Ford III

Could be a failing coilpack ok.

Get it looked at asap OP because failing to do so can cause damage to the cat.

jimbis

I'd put my money on the coil, but you can't tell without getting the codes read.
Coil is around ?50 and easy to fit so weigh up the options of what's cheaper to try first.

Toyotafanboi

A failing coil pack wouldn't usually stop a car from starting though.

Foxhole Norman

Crankshaft position sensor maybe? BMWs suffer similar symptoms from dodgy camshaft sensors.

grogi

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

Crankshaft position sensor maybe? BMWs suffer similar symptoms from dodgy camshaft sensors.

That would be my bet as well.

E36Ross

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

A failing coil pack wouldn't usually stop a car from starting though.

When mine went in a Golf it just refused to start one morning. (No warning signs)

Normally in a Ford the car will feel sluggish and not pull smoothly.

martinr5232

When it doesnt start do you get dashes where the milage should be ??

Henry Ford III

E36Ross wrote: »

When mine went in a Golf it just refused to start one morning. (No warning signs)

Normally in a Ford the car will feel sluggish and not pull smoothly.

I drove a 1.4 Focus with a faulty coil pack. It was horribly lumpy, wouldn't pull and was reluctant to rev. Stalled a lot too.

p.s. That was before the coil pack issue was fixed incidentally

Deliverance XXV

Thanks guys - looks like it will be a trip to the Ford garage

martinr5232 wrote: »

When it doesnt start do you get dashes where the milage should be ??

No idea to be honest - I will look out for them should the issue reoccur before I bring the card in.

king02

It is more than likely the printed circuit board in the instrument cluster starting to break down. It will start flashing up other warning lights soon. A good auto electrician can usually repair at a fraction of the cost of a new set of clocks as they are very expensive and it is a common problem in the 2005 on Focus cars

dastardly00

king02 wrote: »

It is more than likely the printed circuit board in the instrument cluster starting to break down. It will start flashing up other warning lights soon. A good auto electrician can usually repair at a fraction of the cost of a new set of clocks as they are very expensive and it is a common problem in the 2005 on Focus cars

Does that explain why the car wouldn't start a few times though?

dastardly00

Hi OP, this is just my experience with my car ('06 Focus 1.4 petrol, ~170,000 km) and that warning light.

The same light appeared on about three separate occasions times a few months ago just after I had started the car and was pulling away (within the first few metres). I'd turn off the ignition, wait a few seconds, and turn back on. The light would be gone, and there would be no issues. Around the same time period I also started noticing that every now and again the car would jerk a bit or struggle to pull when I'd want to accelerate quickly.

The car was was due a service, so I got a major service done at a main Ford dealer. The fault code was for the throttle positioning sensor (which would help to explain the issues with losing power, jerking etc.). However they said they couldn't find anything wrong, and said to come back if I had anymore issues, and they would replace that particular sensor.

All was grand for a couple of weeks while I was only driving in and out to work around Galway. But then two weeks ago the sh*t hit the fan when I was driving from Wexford to Kilkenny on a Saturday night. The light would come on, I'd lose power and I'd have to pull in immediately. Turn off and on the engine. Drive for 10-20 km then light would come on and I'd lose power etc. Rinse & repeat until I got to Kilkenny. It broke my heart that night.

I got it towed to the garage on the Monday and the fault codes were all for the throttle positioning sensor. The mechanic changed it and I've had no problems since (about 250 km done in 7 days). The car is running fantastic actually *touches wood*

I don't think it's related to your issue though as you aren't experiencing any issues with loss of power or jerking.

Deliverance XXV

Hi all,

Just an update for future searchers;

I dropped the car into the Ford garage recently to get it checked out and they got back to me within a couple hours. They say the powertrain (PCM) will need to be done at a cost of €1800.

I declined (based on replies here and other forums) as I suspect (without any grounds!) that the issue will still be there after spending that money with no come-back.

Thanks for all of your replies.

zilog_jones

This is why taking a 12 year old car to a main dealer is a waste of time - they're only going to want to replace components with new ones, at unfeasible cost. You could buy a used PCM (is that Ford talk for ECU?) for a tenth of the cost, or there may be repair options out there - that's assuming it is even the problem. I think you'd be much better off going to a good independent mechanic or auto electrician...

dr.fuzzenstein

zilog_jones wrote: »

This is why taking a 12 year old car to a main dealer is a waste of time - they're only going to want to replace components with new ones, at unfeasible cost. You could buy a used PCM (is that Ford talk for ECU?) for a tenth of the cost, or there may be repair options out there - that's assuming it is even the problem. I think you'd be much better off going to a good independent mechanic or auto electrician...

OP could buy a PCM (yes, control module) for a fraction of the cost, but programming it will be the real fun part. I doubt it just screws in.

Deliverance XXV

Deliverance XXV wrote: »

Hi all,

Just an update for future searchers;

I dropped the car into the Ford garage recently to get it checked out and they got back to me within a couple hours. They say the powertrain (PCM) will need to be done at a cost of €1800.

I declined (based on replies here and other forums) as I suspect (without any grounds!) that the issue will still be there after spending that money with no come-back.

Thanks for all of your replies.

Hi all,

Just an update on this for future people with the same issue - I decided to stick with the car for a while and see how it goes. Anyway, about 2 months ago, my car failed to start at all one cold morning. I got the car jumped and it was fine but I knew from the sounds of the car trying to start that the battery was going/gone so I bought a new battery and fitted it that weekend.

8 weeks later and guess what? No trouble starting the car and no cog wheel dashboard light since changing the battery. I don't think I will be going back to that main Ford dealer again. It really does sound like they saw the dashboard light when the car was in, saw that it referenced the powertrain in the manual and used that as the official recommendation. Disappointing.

kerten

Deliverance XXV wrote: »

Hi all,

Just an update on this for future people with the same issue - I decided to stick with the car for a while and see how it goes. Anyway, about 2 months ago, my car failed to start at all one cold morning. I got the car jumped and it was fine but I knew from the sounds of the car trying to start that the battery was going/gone so I bought a new battery and fitted it that weekend.

8 weeks later and guess what? No trouble starting the car and no cog wheel dashboard light since changing the battery. I don't think I will be going back to that main Ford dealer again. It really does sound like they saw the dashboard light when the car was in, saw that it referenced the powertrain in the manual and used that as the official recommendation. Disappointing.

Most likely scenario is they couldn't diagnose the issue and gave you a huge quote to make sure you don't fix the car in their dealer.

MetzgerMeister

So the issue was a failing battery?

Deliverance XXV

kerten wrote: »

Most likely scenario is they couldn't diagnose the issue and gave you a huge quote to make sure you don't fix the car in their dealer.

A little bit of a disturbing thought but it had crossed my mind.

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

So the issue was a failing battery?

Good question.

There was two issues happening:
(1) Car not starting which happened when trying to start the car within 5 minutes of stopping the car
(2) Cog wheel light came on frequently, possible 4-5 times a week. No routine with it happening but probably depended on how much I used the car that day.

Both of these issues are now non-existent. I'm not a motor tech but there is a correlation with the issue stopping happening once the battery was installed.

Kat1170

Clutching at straws here really, but could a sensor or something have 'reset' itself when the battery was disconnected and then reconnected ??

dr.fuzzenstein

Kat1170 wrote: »

Clutching at straws here really, but could a sensor or something have 'reset' itself when the battery was disconnected and then reconnected ??

Anything's possible. My mother drives a Twingo and it would start OK from cold, the start revving like mad, die 5 minutes later and be really difficult to start again, then it would run fine.
Brought it to the garage, the unplugged a sensor to get it going again, plug in the diagnosis, find nothing, plug the sensor in again and the car has been running perfectly again since then.
That was at least 6 months ago and the car hasn't missed a beat since. Passed TÜV with no issues whatsoever.
Figure that...