Question about Creche

Irish-Lass

I have a question.

My little one attends a crèche and one of the days she managed to get out the front door twice of the crèche. First time she got about 3-4 feet from the door and the second time 4-5 feet away from the door.

While yes I know she should not have run out the front door she is 3 so doesn't fully grasp the dangers of the road.

The crèche were very quick to make sure that I realised that it was not there fault. I made a point of saying well if she had of managed to get out onto the road and hit by a car would it still not be your fault. I am trusting you with her car.

Since then the member of staff that was involved in point incidents has made a point of making sure that I knew that she wasn't the better of it and had to go home and have a glass of wine and really I should speak to my child.

The crèche have taken no responsibility whatsoever for allowing her out the front door twice in the one day and are going to great lengths to make sure I know it was my child's fault.

Am I wrong in standing my ground and insisting that they revisit the area around the front door.

sillysocks

That sounds crazy, I don't use a cr?che so can't tell you the 'rules' somewhere else but how is the door opening? If she's able to open it herself surely that's a major security issue. Then any child could open it and do a runner!

dar100

That is totally the fault of the Creshe!! Your child is in their care and they have a duty of care towards your child

I find it alarming that they refuse to take ownership of this incident, you should make a complaint

Irish-Lass

It would seem that when other parents were coming to collect their child she was able to get out the front door.

My husband collected her the day in question and the Creche manager made a point of ringing me in work the next day to make sure I was aware of it and that I knew it wasn't there fault that she was so quick.

I can't really talk in work so couldn't really question her and can't but be annoyed that they would blame a 3 year old

scarepanda

Why would they think that they are not responsible for your child managing to make her way out of their door? Their care? Was no one looking after her? Or if there was, how or why were they so distracted that she made it out the door? What is set up/layout of the crèche? Surely the front door should be away from the rooms the children are in and secure that this didn't happen?

Sorry, I know it's not your fault. My lo is only 10months old and not in crèche yet, but if it was my child in question I would be looking around for alternative childcare. Your paying enough for the piece of mind that your child is safe when you are in work.

noanoa

I have a Montessori school and that seems crazy that they are trying to blame your child.

They should be putting something into place so that it won't happen again - I would ask them about that, it didn't only happen the once this is the second time so something isn't working. Did they document what happened and get you to sign it?

If this happened in my school - I would be ringing the parents to inform them and ask them to come in and sit down with them to go over what happened. What we are doing to make sure it doesn't happen in the future and then a follow up call a few weeks later.

Moonbeam

As soon as it happened the creche should have put measures in place so that it did not happen again
.
They were negligent and I would be asking them for a full report on it and what measures have been put in place in writing/

She's gotten out twice?
And the crèche are not accepting responsibility?

Time for a new crèche

And tell them you won't be paying any cancellation notice

mdwexford

Are they mental. They are completely wrong and negligent here.

I'd be up there fuming and would probably switch crèche. As you say, what if she sprinted out in front of a car outside the door.

Our cr?che has an extra bolt near the top of the front door where no child has a hope of reaching. Whenever anyone comes to the door it's the responsibility of whoever answers to make sure no kids are getting ready to try and escape!!

shesty

We have a childminder but I visited a creche a couple of times last year.They answered the door to me when I buzzed, amd asked me to wait in an entry area while they returned to the kids area, which I was separated from while they closed two heavy duty child safety gates.One a few feet inside the front door and one inside the door of the room the kids were in (there was a kitchen area off it, hence the inner gate.) I noticed all creche staff were extra vigilant about closing the gates behind them.
Point being that I would never expect a three year old to know they shouldn't go out.I have a 3 year old.She opened the front door the other day and was stepping out it (baby sister in tow!) When I caught them.She knows that's a big no-no but she's only just 3.And it was my fault for forgetting to lock the door .

There's no way the creche can just abdicate responsibility like this.You can't make a three year old responsible for this.They are responsible.

evolving_doors

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/wilful-neglect-charge-against-giraffe-cr%C3%A8che-worker-dismissed-1.1975716

Just going by this old case here

Two toddlers wandered out of the gate, across a road and behind an apartment block, where they were found, unharmed, next to a stream.

Judge O’Donnell said there was no evidence the two toddlers were harmed, so he had no option but to dismiss the case.

It would appear it only matters if the child comes to harm!

Although things might have changed since then.

If the creche hasn't changed procedure in any way then tell them you'll be making a complaint to Tusla.
http://www.tusla.ie/services/preschool-services/where-to-get-advice-if-i-have-a-difficulty-or-a-complaint-about-a-service

A similar thing happened in our creche where a kid nearly got passed the final stage of 4 doors on to the road, but didn't..straight away procedures were reviewed, locks altered and all parents notified.

It's a tricky job keeping kids safe but you learn and change.

scarepanda

Gebgbegb wrote:

It would appear it only matters if the child comes to harm!

It's a bit late by then one would think.

jlm29

That's just ludicrous. Of course it's their fault. Three year olds obviously can't be trusted to know what's safe and what isn't. And even if they do know something is wrong, they can't be trusted not to do it. That's why you pay the crèche (probably quite handsomely) to look after them.

neonsofa

Not their fault? So what exactly are you paying them for? Why the need to pay them hundreds each week if the baby is expected to keep out of harms way and look after themselves. The cheek of them blaming your little one!!
I'm actually angry on your behalf! Whatever about the incident happening, human error, but to happen a second time and then for them to place the blame on the child- who they are being paid to supervise?! Their sole job! Wow!

jlm29

Also, telling you she had to go home and have a glass of wine isn't exactly reassuring, is it? That's awfully unprofessional. human error happens, though in some areas there shouldn't be a window for it- i.e. The crèche should have measured in place to avoid it, like multiple doors, safety gates etc. But even if something does happen once, it shouldn't be allowed to happen a second time under any circumstances

Irish-Lass

To answer some questions.

There was no follow up in relation to it and I am wondering if I have left it too long to confront them now happened 2 weeks ago.

Nothing has changed.

You enter the main door and there is hall way with 3 doors off it one into the toilets one into the playroom and then one into the toddler room. There is no baby gates overt the doors so if a door is left open the children can wander into the hall, the doors are generally open when I call (don't know about during the day) as the kids are going in and out of the toilet.

The front door is normally locked and the keys on a hook where the children can't reach.

It seems from what I was told on the phone that the first time someone was coming to collect a playschooler they were standing at the front door and she ran out. Later the same day someone was collecting a toddler and she managed to get out again and run.

I know accidents happen and think I am being very reasonable in that I know they happen but what I am having trouble with is the fact that they are took no responsibility and blamed my daughter for being "too quick". Nothing has changed and besides the comment about needing a glass of wine that evening to settle her nerves and the creche manager asking me to speak to my daughter about it being wrong to run out the door there was no report or follow up with myself or my husband.

shesty

No.After the first incident they really shoukd have looked at their set up to see how they could improve it.Especially if there are toilets in the hall and they know kids will be going in and out and doors will be open.
To be honest, even if you did talk to your child do they really expect her to remember every day not to run out the door?She's three, she has zero impulse control.You can remind her alright but at the end of the day it's up to them to enforce it.She's their responsibility while she's there.

tcif

Two weeks is not a long period of time, so no, I don't think it's too late to bring it up again with them. Clearly it's still on your mind and understandably so - it's your child's safety at stake and you need to feel comfortable that the creche is taking that seriously.

Like so many other posters have said, it seems downright odd and highly irresponsible of them to blame your child. If 3 year olds could be trusted to not do anything that might put them in harms way why would anyone pay nearly the equivalent of a second mortgage every month to a creche? We could just leave out enough food and leave them at home when we go to work, happy days! It's precisely because they do need to be looked after, and anyone who's ever met a toddler or young child knows how fast they are on their feet and how quick they can spot an opportunity to make a break for it.


This is their responsibility and they need to accept that in order to rebuild any trust with them, I should think.

Dravokivich

Irish-Lass wrote: »

The front door is normally locked and the keys on a hook where the children can't reach.

Regardless or whether or not the front door is locked, a young child should not be able to reach anything that'll allow them to open the door. All they'd have to do is find a way to knock the keys off the hook/ledge.

The creche my son goes to, the latch is approx my shoulder height.

No kid under 8-10, can reach that too easily.

Neyite

It is their fault she was unsupervised enough to escape twice. No question.

I think I would follow up with it in writing via email. Start with stating that you've waited 2 weeks for them to investigate the incident and would now like to know the progress of the report on it and would like a copy of it for your records and also are requesting a meeting to discuss it and answer queries, for example;

You want to know that they have put in place reminders to parents not to let any children out when they are collecting their own.

Has the staff member(s) in charge of supervision on those days been spoken to and what measures (refresher training/ back up staff/ HR) warning have been put in place by management to ensure that the issue wont arise again;

What physical changes have they made to their security systems (moving the key/ additional locks etc) are being planned and when will the creche implement them.

Tbh, their current defence screams "arse-covering" and that's not what you want from a service provider you are paying the guts of 500-1000 a month to. Trust is why we pay such high prices and not knowing how a 3yo can escape or expecting one to mind themselves is falling far short of any childcare I know. If they genuinely think that then they should be running kennels, not creches. Actually, that's unfair - pet owners would also find this to be substandard care for their pets in a kennel.

Their defence is indefensible. If you get no further after a written request then its time to place your child in another creche and be very vocal to anyone you know why you are changing creche. Tbh, I'd be strongly considering changing anyway as the trust is broken down.