Floyd Mayweather - The best ever boxing career

Sweet Science

Just hear me out .

The key in the boxing game is to make as much money as you can and get out with your health in order . The tragedies of the last few months reinforce this.

So lets look at his career

1. Has made an absolutely obscene amount of money . HIs fight with McGregor will add an extra 100 million on this this

2. He has taken virtually no punishement . In 49 fights i can count on one hand the amount of times he was caught flush.

3. He will also have a 50-0 record

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

Just hear me out .

The key in the boxing game is to make as much money as you can and get out with your health in order . The tragedies of the last few months reinforce this.

So lets look at his career

1. Has made an absolutely obscene amount of money . HIs fight with McGregor will add an extra 100 million on this this

2. He has taken virtually no punishement . In 49 fights i can count on one hand the amount of times he was caught flush.

3. He will also have a 50-0 record

He will only ever have a 50-0 record if he fights a legitimate professional boxer. I am not giving him 50-0 for beating an MMA fighter in a boxing contest.

Earnings wise and health wise his career is the best ever.

wonderfullife

His 8 defeats as an amateur count against him. Rocky Marciano only lost 4 times as an amateur.

Sweet Science

wonderfullife wrote: »

His 8 defeats as an amateur count against him. Rocky Marciano only lost 4 times as an amateur.

Dont think that changes anything all things considered.

walshb

Rocky fought all comers. Floyd does not..

End of.

Sweet Science

walshb wrote: »

Rocky fought all comers. Floyd does not..

End of.

Not really the point i was making.

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

Not really the point i was making.

I wasn't replying to your point. I was simply stating a fact.

Sweet Science

walshb wrote: »

I wasn't replying to your point. I was simply stating a fact.

I wasnt around during Rockys era so cant comment

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

I wasnt around during Rockys era so cant comment

I don't think one needs to have been around to make an informed and researched analysis.

Sweet Science

walshb wrote: »

I don't think one needs to have been around to make an informed and researched analysis.

Who did mayweather avoid ?

Frank Bullitt

wonderfullife wrote: »

His 8 defeats as an amateur count against him. Rocky Marciano only lost 4 times as an amateur.

49 professional victories against multiple world champions in multiple weight classes, but losing in the amateurs...yeah, that's a deal breaker.

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

Who did mayweather avoid ?

I didn't say that he avoided anyone.

I said Rocky had to face all comers, being a HW!

Sweet Science

Gintonious wrote: »

49 professional victories against multiple world champions in multiple weight classes, but losing in the amateurs...yeah, that's a deal breaker.

I wonder if there is any sport as corrupt as amateur boxing

Burial.

Marciano has a poor resume. Has 4 ATGs on his list in Moore, Charles, Louis and Jersey Joe (arguable) but all were crocked and shot to sh*t. Moore lesser than the rest but he was a LHW and still past prime. Similar enough to Calzaghe who on paper has some fine names but the reality isn't too great. Floyd's resume trumps him handily enough. The whole 49-0 thing is a bit stupid tbh...more so a coincidence than anything else considering Chavez got to like 80 something and 0 before they gave him a draw against Sweet Pea, a fight he clearly lost..

Sweet Science

Burial. wrote: »

Marciano has a poor resume. Has 4 ATGs on his list in Moore, Charles, Louis and Jersey Joe (arguable) but all were crocked and shot to sh*t. Moore lesser than the rest but he was a LHW and still past prime. Similar enough to Calzaghe who on paper has some fine names but the reality isn't too great. Floyd's resume trumps him handily enough. The whole 49-0 thing is a bit stupid tbh...more so a coincidence than anything else considering Chavez got to like 80 something and 0 before they gave him a draw against Sweet Pea, a fight he clearly lost..

Time is very good to boxers . People forget the ins and outs of what happened in their career .

In 30 years time a lot of people will forget Roy Jones was shot when fighting Galzaghe as an example

People also tend to forget Ray Leonard not agreeing to fight Pryor and also the Hagler stuff

Burial.

Sweet Science wrote: »

Time is very good to boxers . People forget the ins and outs of what happened in their career .

In 30 years time a lot of people will forget Roy Jones was shot when fighting Galzaghe as an example

People also tend to forget Ray Leonard not agreeing to fight Pryor and also the Hagler stuff

In 30 years people will still not forget the controversy between Ward and Kovalev though and still not give Ward his props :P

I loved watching Calzaghe though...his record is padded, as his KO rate which is hilarious...but a damn brilliant fighter all the same. If only him and Ward were born a few years closer...a fight I've imagined in my head a few times. Also we probably would have seen him embarrass Froch too.

megadodge

Sweet Science wrote: »

Time is very good to boxers . People forget the ins and outs of what happened in their career .

In 30 years time a lot of people will forget Roy Jones was shot when fighting Galzaghe as an example

People also tend to forget Ray Leonard not agreeing to fight Pryor and also the Hagler stuff

Do explain please.....

Sweet Science

megadodge wrote: »

Do explain please.....

Really ?

walshb

The Aaorn Pryor call and Hagler stuff?

I am a bit unsure what you mean here as well.

Ray Leonard did not duck Pryor.

As for Hagler stuff? What is that, the ring size?

Pivot Eoin

Sweet Science wrote: »

Who did mayweather avoid ?

Paul Williams
Prime Pacquiao
Antonio Margarito
Prime Shane Mosley
Arguably Sergio Martinez
Arguably Kosta Tzuyu

Sweet Science

Pivot Eoin wrote: »

Paul Williams
Prime Pacquiao
Antonio Margarito
Prime Shane Mosley
Arguably Sergio Martinez
Arguably Kosta Tzuyu

Prime Pacquiao - Manny was afraid of needles - Bob Arum didnt help the situation either but i agree it will be debated
Antonio Margarito - Well he was justified here wasnt he ?
Prime Shane Mosley - Beat him to a pulp after Shane came off one of his career best performances
Arguably Sergio Martinez - Wont be remembered in 30 years
Arguably Kosta Tzuyu - People will forget him too

Sweet Science

walshb wrote: »

The Aaorn Pryor call and Hagler stuff?

I am a bit unsure what you mean here as well.

Ray Leonard did not duck Pryor.

As for Hagler stuff? What is that, the ring size?

People say he purposely went into retirement instead of fighting Hagler . Then 3 years later he came out of retirement and waited another year before fighting him . People say he waited until Hagler slowed down etc . Quite simialre to peoples argument re Floyd and Manny

Pivot Eoin

Sweet Science wrote: »

Prime Pacquiao - Manny was afraid of needles - Bob Arum didnt help the situation either but i agree it will be debated
Antonio Margarito - Well he was justified here wasnt he ?
Prime Shane Mosley - Beat him to a pulp after Shane came off one of his career best performances
Arguably Sergio Martinez - Wont be remembered in 30 years
Arguably Kosta Tzuyu - People will forget him too

Pacquiao Avoidance, there was **** for years so you can swing either side on that one but the fight got done after Pacquiao had lost twice. I dont think thats a coincedince.

Margarito loaded gloves, fair enough, point taken.

Mosley yeah had just beat up Margarito, but wasnt a prime Margarito and you cant say Mosley was anywhere near his best.

Tzuyu & Martinez... what does being remembered have to do with it? Both were very dangerous opponents for Floyd talked about at 140 and 154 respectively, but he chose to fight Judah and a washed up, Pac Beaten Cotto at those weights instead.

walshb

Whatever about Floyd and I won't go through all his career, the whole demanding drugs tests for Manny was absolute nonsense and ridiculous. Floyd must have saw something he didn't like and wanted to stall.

Personally I thought he would have beaten any version of Manny. And even IF Floyd genuinely believe that Manny was juicing, so what. Floyd is at least a weight naturally bigger.

JMM and Bradley and others got in the ring, and Bradley and JMM got wins.

What exactly was Floyd unsure of here?

He stalled the fight for several years. The calling for Olympic style drugs testing was his tactic...

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

People say he purposely went into retirement instead of fighting Hagler . Then 3 years later he came out of retirement and waited another year before fighting him . People say he waited until Hagler slowed down etc . Quite simialre to peoples argument re Floyd and Manny

And how does this look bad on Ray? He was the WW moving up, the inactive WW moving up to meet one of boxing's most feared men. If anything the fight the fight looked terrible for Marvin in losing to an inactive blown up WW.

I thought Hagler looked awful in the fight and not all to do with Ray's talent either.

Sweet Science

walshb wrote: »

And how does this look bad on Ray? He was the WW moving up, the inactive WW moving up to meet one of boxing's most feared men. If anything the fight the fight looked terrible for Marvin in losing to an inactive blown up WW.

I thought Hagler looked awful in the fight and not all to do with Ray's talent either.

I agree with you . Just playing Devils advocate here

Sweet Science

walshb wrote: »

Whatever about Floyd and I won't go through all his career, the whole demanding drugs tests for Manny was absolute nonsense and ridiculous. Floyd must have saw something he didn't like and wanted to stall.

Personally I thought he would have beaten any version of Manny. And even IF Floyd genuinely believe that Manny was juicing, so what. Floyd is at least a weight naturally bigger.

JMM and Bradley and others got in the ring, and Bradley and JMM got wins.

What exactly was Floyd unsure of here?

He stalled the fight for several years. The calling for Olympic style drugs testing was his tactic...

Would you not agree for 80 million dollars ?

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

Would you not agree for 80 million dollars ?

To OSDT?

That's not the issue. I am not talking about Manny. I am talking about Floyd and his bringing in this obstacle. For me it was out of the blue and had never been done before as far as I know. Why exactly did he do it? Did he really fear a man a weight or two smaller? Did he not see how JMM handled Manny, how Bradley handled Manny?

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

I agree with you . Just playing Devils advocate here

I like that...a man after my own heart!

Littlehorny

walshb wrote: »

I didn't say that he avoided anyone.

I said Rocky had to face all comers, being a HW!

I know this thread is about Mayweather but i read an article about Marciano a couple of years ago and he did avoid some of the top contenders of his day, his management steered him away from the bigger heavies who were operating at the time. There was a notable No.1 contender called Nino Valdez who was 6ft 4 with a 79 inch reach who the rock avoided.
Being a white Italian champ he was also under pressure to stay champ so a few fleet footed fast slick black fighters never got a chance either. Saying that at 5ft 10 and 185 pounds he was one hardy b*****d

Littlehorny

I think no modern fighter will ever equal the careers of the old timers anyway, men like Sugar Ray Robinson who only lost 6 times in his first 150 fights and was a world champion when you actually were a world champion!
Or Willy Pep- 241 fights with 229 wins or Henry Armstrong who held 3 titles in 3 different weights at the same time.

walshb

One could pick out many cases for many fighters avoiding an opponent or two..

My point was simple: Being a HW, and champion they have to entertain the possibility of facing all comers..

Another way to look at this is that all the greats like Floyd and Duran and SRL and SRR etc were champions across multiple weights...

Rocky and the HW champions (particularly the lineal champions) were the champions of all weights...

Top of the food chain...

Sweet Science

walshb wrote: »

One could pick out many cases for many fighters avoiding an opponent or two..

My point was simple: Being a HW, and champion they have to entertain the possibility of facing all comers..

Another way to look at this is that all the greats like Floyd and Duran and SRL and SRR etc were champions across multiple weights...

Rocky and the HW champions (particularly the lineal champions) were the champions of all weights...

Top of the food chain...

Yeah its the heavyweights that capture the imagination more . I grew up watching Tyson and there was nothing like it . Even watching Joshua/Wlad have a different type of feel to it . They were nearly covering the ring the size of the 2 of them.

boxer.fan

I don't care what Floyd's record is, he was beaten by Castillo. I also think ODLH had the better of him. There's no doubt he's been the most successful in terms of money & promotion. I'm happy he's on the way out of the game, through all his success he's been a ****head.

walshb

boxer.fan wrote: »

I don't care what Floyd's record is, he was beaten by Castillo. I also think ODLH had the better of him. There's no doubt he's been the most successful in terms of money & promotion. I'm happy he's on the way out of the game, through all his success he's been a ****head.

I gave the first Castillo fight to Castillo. Very difficult for me to argue for a Floyd win there.

Oscar......not a good fight at all, and a case of Floyd getting the usual credit for not getting hit all that clean, but what I want to see is where exactly did Floyd land so clean....? Oscar not getting any credit for not getting hit all that clean either. And eff all credit it seems for actually making a fight of it. A point Oscar made himself. Had he not pushed the fight there wouldn't have been one

One judge scored rd 12 for Floyd. I did not think he won it, and nor did the other two. Had he scored it to Oscar that fight is a draw.

Sweet Science

walshb wrote: »

I gave the first Castillo fight to Castillo. Very difficult for me to argue for a Floyd win there.

Oscar......not a good fight at all, and a case of Floyd getting the usual credit for not getting hit all that clean, but what I want to see is where exactly did Floyd land so clean....? Oscar not getting any credit for not getting hit all that clean either. And eff all credit it seems for actually making a fight of it. A point Oscar made himself. Had he not pushed the fight there wouldn't have been one

One judge scored rd 12 for Floyd. I did not think he won it, and nor did the other two. Had he scored it to Oscar that fight is a draw.

Yeah i agree Castillo one was a dodgy decision . Watched the Oscar fight last week . Think Oscar was gifted a split decision .

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

Yeah i agree Castillo one was a dodgy decision . Watched the Oscar fight last week . Think Oscar was gifted a split decision .

I don't have the energy to watch it again. I didn't like it, but I remember when watching it wondering when Floyd was going to start fighting.

Sweet Science

It wasnt a great fight so dont blame you . I think it was a clear 7-5 for him though . Oscar was bluffing rounds with nonsense punches . Floyd did land a good bit of clean shots . I'd say Oscar landed 4 all fight

Sweet Science

What fights interest you the most ? A tear up ?

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

What fights interest you the most ? A tear up ?

Good clean and honest fought fights with commitment and intent and clean shooting.

I have this image here of only being into tear ups. Nonsense

The reason I have this image is due to me getting irritated by far too much credit being bandied about for defense.

I have clearly explained my views on this. It is nothing against defense. It is against OTT credit being applied for it, or when there is nothing in return.

Maravilla33

Pivot Eoin wrote: »

Paul Williams
Prime Pacquiao
Antonio Margarito
Prime Shane Mosley
Arguably Sergio Martinez
Arguably Kosta Tzuyu

Paul Williams - Would have been an awkward fight given his dimensions but wasn't exactly a hugely marketable fight. Was out boxed by the great Carlos Quintana.

Prime Shane Mosley - When should this have happened? When Mosley was beating ODLH at WW, Mayweather was fighting at super feather.

Arguably Sergio Martinez - Come off it? Martinez was a good middleweight champ, Floyd started off at feather or super feather. Fighting at welter Floyd already 20lbs plus up from where he started. Why should he fight a guy that much bigger?

Agree Castillo should have won their first fight. Did Floyd tear his rotator cuff before that fight or was that BS? Remember hearing rumours but never really looked into it.

walshb

That's some break between posting, Maravilla33!

Maravilla33

Ha ha must have been a few years anyway. Slow day in work.

Needed a break from all of the Vitali would beat King Kong and all old timers would be 5 feet tall and useless these days threads :eek:

Pivot Eoin

Maravilla33 wrote: »

Paul Williams - Would have been an awkward fight given his dimensions but wasn't exactly a hugely marketable fight. Was out boxed by the great Carlos Quintana.

Prime Shane Mosley - When should this have happened? When Mosley was beating ODLH at WW, Mayweather was fighting at super feather.

Arguably Sergio Martinez - Come off it? Martinez was a good middleweight champ, Floyd started off at feather or super feather. Fighting at welter Floyd already 20lbs plus up from where he started. Why should he fight a guy that much bigger?

Agree Castillo should have won their first fight. Did Floyd tear his rotator cuff before that fight or was that BS? Remember hearing rumours but never really looked into it.

Williams had an off night vs Quintana. Granted. MArketable? Dont give me that bull****, Mayweather fought Massive PPV Stars such as Robert Guerrero, Victor Ortiz, Juan Manuel Marquez, Maidana, Andre Berto... Williams was fighting between 147 and 154 then. And was best opponent. End of.

Mosley could and should have been fought years earlier, when he was fighting Judah, or Hatton.

Sergio Martinez came through the weights to Middleweight and was making 154, at same time Mayweather was fighting Cotto at 154. So again, valid. Frequently chose less threatening options. We all know Floyd's game.

Sweet Science

Pivot Eoin wrote: »

Williams had an off night vs Quintana. Granted. MArketable? Dont give me that bull****, Mayweather fought Massive PPV Stars such as Robert Guerrero, Victor Ortiz, Juan Manuel Marquez, Maidana, Andre Berto... Williams was fighting between 147 and 154 then. And was best opponent. End of.

Mosley could and should have been fought years earlier, when he was fighting Judah, or Hatton.

Sergio Martinez came through the weights to Middleweight and was making 154, at same time Mayweather was fighting Cotto at 154. So again, valid. Frequently chose less threatening options. We all know Floyd's game.

Both your arguments are valid . Every fighter out there could be accused of avoiding someone though .

Maravilla33

Pivot Eoin wrote: »

Sergio Martinez came through the weights to Middleweight and was making 154, at same time Mayweather was fighting Cotto at 154. So again, valid. Frequently chose less threatening options. We all know Floyd's game.

It's not really the same thing though is it? FM won his first title at super feather. Martinez started at what Welter? Welter is FM going up several weight divisions already. Martinez was middle weight champ, he's naturally a far bigger man.

FM fighting at 154 is him stretched to the absolute limit and nearly 30lbs above his starting point. Why should he fight a guy who was stopping legit 160lbers? Where does it stop? GGG could possibly make 154lbs, should Mayweather fight him?

FM fought Cotto at 154 in 2012. Martinez hadn't done 154 since 2009? Your timeline doesn't match up?

I can accept your points about Williams and Mosley so will leave that alone but to say he ducked Martinez is ridiculous. As you can probably guess from my name this is coming from a huge Martinez fan.

Pivot Eoin

Maravilla33 wrote: »

It's not really the same thing though is it? FM won his first title at super feather. Martinez started at what Welter? Welter is FM going up several weight divisions already. Martinez was middle weight champ, he's naturally a far bigger man.

FM fighting at 154 is him stretched to the absolute limit and nearly 30lbs above his starting point. Why should he fight a guy who was stopping legit 160lbers? Where does it stop? GGG could possibly make 154lbs, should Mayweather fight him?

FM fought Cotto at 154 in 2012. Martinez hadn't done 154 since 2009? Your timeline doesn't match up?

I can accept your points about Williams and Mosley so will leave that alone but to say he ducked Martinez is ridiculous. As you can probably guess from my name this is coming from a huge Martinez fan.

I said Martinez at a Stretch in my original post. He was always willing to do 154 when Floyd was operating there, and He was up there in the P4P lists at same time. Thats all. Not a blatant duck.

snowflaker

Wasn't Rocky tied up with the mob too...

As a boxer Floyd was sublime. This freak show doesn't interest me

Sweet Science

TBE