Things to consider in a car alarm

masterboy123

What car alarm company is best?

And is it advisable to get proximity sensor and other features as well?

I got quote for 270e. Is it a good price?

Atlantic Dawn

Depends on the car, if the car is easily stolen without the key I would go for something that would be linked to the ignition system and stop the car being started. If it's a car that can't be stolen without the key I'd look at getting a secure locker to put the key in at your house.

biko

What alarm was that price for OP?
Clifford has been around a long time and is a good choice.

If you tell us your location we can help with recommending fitters.

Del2005

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Depends on the car, if the car is easily stolen without the key I would go for something that would be linked to the ignition system and stop the car being started. If it's a car that can't be stolen without the key I'd look at getting a secure locker to put the key in at your house.

No point in having the keys secured and not yourself or family, cars can be replaced so leave the keys in a place that can't be seen from outside.

masterboy123

Not sure about the alarm i was quoted for. I will ring tomorrow and find it out.

My car has immobiliser so only car key can start it.

I am based in South, Tipperary.

Any specific thing i should ask the fitter?

If you have a good experience with a particular model let me know.

I saw car alarms with remote start feature. It would be a cool feature.

biko wrote: »

What alarm was that price for OP?
Clifford has been around a long time and is a good choice.

If you tell us your location we can help with recommending fitters.

CiniO

To be honest any mainstream alarm which is mass manufactured, can be easily overridden by someone who knows that stuff.

Best way to protect the car, is to have a custom protection - even simple but well hidden.

masterboy123

It's viper car alarm.

Del2005

masterboy123 wrote: »

Not sure about the alarm i was quoted for. I will ring tomorrow and find it out.

My car has immobiliser so only car key can start it.

I am based in South, Tipperary.

Any specific thing i should ask the fitter?

If you have a good experience with a particular model let me know.

I saw car alarms with remote start feature. It would be a cool feature.

Remote start means that they either disable the manufacturers immobiliser or stick the transponder in the car. Neither are good options.

Wibbs

masterboy123 wrote: »

What car alarm company is best?

IMHO it's all about the installation. A mid range well installed alarm is better than a top of the range alarm installed in the usual fashion.

And is it advisable to get proximity sensor and other features as well?

A proximity sensor will drive you nuts giving false warnings/alarms(though sometimes useful, they can be a pain to set up). Basic inbuilt shock sensors can be similar. A tilt sensor can be a good extra if you have nice wheels. If someone tries to jack up your car to steal them, or if they try to tow it, it'll set off the alarm and they don't tend to false alarm. Glass break sensors are OK too.

I got quote for 270e. Is it a good price?

It's not too expensive, but at that price it's going to be a "standard" type install. Time is money so it'll be fitted pretty quickly.

Any specific thing i should ask the fitter?

If you're willing to pay a little extra for the alarm fitters time, I would ask them to install the alarm unit in a place that requires the removal of an internal panel to get to. Not under the dashboard as usual. Upgrade the siren to one with a battery backup and install it somewhere like inside a front wing, not in the usual bolted to the bulkhead with a self tapping screw. If the alarm model has a secondary output get them to wire up a relay that also sounds the car's horn. That really gets attention. Get them to wire the alarm's immobiliser to a circuit other than the starter motor. Fuel pump, ignition, that sort of thing. Starter immobilisers are the usual, which is fine for the US market where automatics are the norm, but not so secure in a manual as you can just push start the car(and are easy to find and bypass). Get them to put this immobiliser circuit anywhere but under the dash near the ignition circuit.

I saw car alarms with remote start feature. It would be a cool feature.

Don't get this. As Del2005 points out in order for that to work they have to bypass the built in immobiliser. Not good and a "feature" you'll quickly get tired of anyway.

It's viper car alarm.

Viper are a good range. They're one of the companies owned by DEI. Clifford are another.

biko wrote: »

Clifford has been around a long time and is a good choice.

I dunno B IMH Clifford have long been overrated and overpriced. Third party car alarms have kinda been stuck in the past. Few enough innovations since the early noughties. About the only ones being Canbus systems and two way systems. And fancier fobs with LCD screens(cool, but delicate, eat batteries and do zero for the security on the car itself). To all intents and purposes a decent car alarm you would have bought in the late 90's is the same as one you'd buy today. Though there are some like Cobra and Autowatch that have some nice innovations, but not really available in the Irish market as far as I know. I suppose when cars started to come with factory immobilisers and alarms few people went out and paid for an extra alarm, so the market changed. It'll change again considering how easily some factory systems can be bypassed.

masterboy123

A huge thanks to Wibbs. For giving in depth idea about car alarms. I will check with the fitter about these options.

Del2005

Wibbs wrote: »

If the alarm model has a secondary output get them to wire up a relay that also sounds the car's horn. That really gets attention.

It's been shown numerous times that people ignore alarms, they even ignore people obviously stealing in the street. All making more noise will do is make a person go "FFS some knobs loud alarm is going off". The only person who will pay attention to the alarm is the owner when in earshot.

dar83

Del2005 wrote: »

It's been shown numerous times that people ignore alarms, they even ignore people obviously stealing in the street. All making more noise will do is make a person go "FFS some knobs loud alarm is going off". The only person who will pay attention to the alarm is the owner when in earshot.

I'd still rather have one than not though!

ironclaw

My view on car alarms is how often do you go out of your way to check an alarm going off in your neighbourhood? Never? I know I rarely would give more than a cursory look.

Spend the money on a decent tracker installation and stick a Tile Mate (https://www.thetileapp.com/en-eu/store/tiles/mate) in the headlining. If the thieves want your car, they are going to take it. Only real obstacle would be a securely locked gate or bollard, otherwise you're looking at damage control by knowing where the car is once its taken.

Wibbs

ironclaw wrote: »

Spend the money on a decent tracker installation and stick a Tile Mate (https://www.thetileapp.com/en-eu/store/tiles/mate) in the headlining.

While a tracker is a good layer, the single biggest problem is your car has already been stolen. It's less a security feature more a recovery feature. Which is good, as I say it's another security layer and as you say damage control. Scenarios where scum use a tow truck for example, or in a hijack situation. However they're not foolproof and the better informed scum know where it's likely to be hidden. The tile mate relies on enough other tiles in the area close enough(under a 100ft) to be in bluetooth range.

If the thieves want your car, they are going to take it.

This line of defeatist reasoning really grinds my gears TBH. I mean why bother locking your front door, after all if the burglars want to break in, they'll break in. May as well leave your car keys in the ignition while you're at it. Of course you wouldn't, because they are security layers, as are other options. The more layers one has the more the odds are against the car thief, many, if most of whom are opportunists.

Remember the woman whose BMW was stolen from outside her house with the range extender? If she had a secondary alarm/immobiliser her car would still be outside her house. Those who had BMW's and other cars stolen because of the OBD access/key cloning? If they had a secondary alarm/immobiliser their cars would still be outside their houses. In both scenarios the thieves will look for easier pickings. The opportunists because they can only bypass the obvious stuff and the "professionals" because they know that the majority of cars they target won't have these layers.

masterboy123

Ok.
So it appears car alarm has precedence over gps tracker.
I am getting into touch with fitters and see who can quote me the best

colm_mcm

Your car definitely doesn't have an alarm already?

Wibbs

masterboy123 wrote: »

Ok.
So it appears car alarm has precedence over gps tracker.

If you can afford it I'd get both TBH. Belt and braces. Trackers are a fantastic layer and "insurance" if they do bypass the other layers. EG just tow the car away. Put it another way Irish insurance companies don't seem too bothered about car alarms, mostly they tick the box [it has one] and don't ask if it's any good or if it was fitted correctly*. TBH I can't think of an occasion where I"ve been asked if my car had any security. Not in the last ten years anyway. However with many insurance companies and certain cars they insist on having a tracker.





*very different in the UK, where if you have a Thatcham level 1 alarm fitted by a professional installer you can get a goodly chunk of change off the premium you pay.

masterboy123

I left a window open, locked the car and opened the door via window. There were no alarm sound, so i believe my car lacks an alarm system.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Your car definitely doesn't have an alarm already?

colm_mcm

You'd usually have sensors on the ceiling or over the front seat belts. Would've thought mercs had alarms

Doing what you described wouldn't set the factory alarm off in my car.

masterboy123

Even I was surprised how come a fairly new car don't come up with an alarm.

Is there any other way to check if there is an alarm in my car? I don't see any red light blinking.
Sure it has immobiliser

colm_mcm wrote: »

You'd usually have sensors on the ceiling or over the front seat belts. Would've thought mercs had alarms

Doing what you described wouldn't set the factory alarm off in my car.

colm_mcm

Is yours the current model c class or the older (2009-ish) one

GustavoFring

Get someone to lock you in the car. Wait about 30 seconds and start moving your hand around the sensor locations and trying to open the door. You'll know fairly quickly.

masterboy123

It's 2015 new model. With new front face lift.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is yours the current model c class or the older (2009-ish) one

ironclaw

Wibbs wrote: »

While a tracker is a good layer, the single biggest problem is your car has already been stolen. It's less a security feature more a recovery feature. Which is good, as I say it's another security layer and as you say damage control. Scenarios where scum use a tow truck for example, or in a hijack situation. However they're not foolproof and the better informed scum know where it's likely to be hidden. The tile mate relies on enough other tiles in the area close enough(under a 100ft) to be in bluetooth range.

Just want to add to this, we 'tested' my set up when the car went in for a service. I knew in advance the battery was going to be disconnected and I knew the car would be lifted by a tow truck. Tracker worked flawlessly, even alering when towed and we knew where it was even when it was inside a metal clad building. My particular one I set up to report the cells it can see as well, so even with GPS lost, its pretty accurate. As regards the Tile, not a huge uptake here in Ireland at present but it still worked, car was within range of a few units during its spin around Dublin and we picked it up. You'll find a tracker with enough time, I'd be fairly confident a Tile could be stuck inside the headlining until the car is scrapped and never be found.

This line of defeatist reasoning really grinds my gears TBH. I mean why bother locking your front door, after all if the burglars want to break in, they'll break in. May as well leave your car keys in the ignition while you're at it. Of course you wouldn't, because they are security layers, as are other options. The more layers one has the more the odds are against the car thief, many, if most of whom are opportunists.

I wouldn't say its defeatist but I see what you are saying. I'm lucky in that I have a 'desirable' car for some thieves and it regularly sits outside my family home. Given the violence that modern society seems to have for trivial things such as car thievery, I'd rather they just had it. I'd suggest checking out the video online, quite recently, of an SQ5 being taken in broad daylight from a gent in Manchester or the Mercedes taken by force with hammers used against the occupants. Frankly, if someone wants my car that much, they can have it.

Like you said, a thieve will pass onto the easier target but if they really want something, its false in my view to assume they'll give up. Once you've started, your frankly immune to any repercussions so violence is sometimes the answer.

Wibbs

A tracker is one area where I'm not covered. I really should get one. When the car is all locked up and secured it will require a tow truck to nick it, even if they get my keys, but in a carjacking scenario I'm wide open(I do have an anti hijack device, but it needs wiring in and I'd not be confident in doing that myself). I'd have to rely on the Guards at that point. And my experience and the experience of others there wouldn't engender the greatest confidence TBH.

How much was your tacker setup IC? How much are the yearly subs? The tile is a neat idea, though from what I read that would be a yearly thing too as the battery taps out around that time.

ironclaw

Wibbs wrote: »

How much was your tacker setup IC? How much are the yearly subs? The tile is a neat idea, though from what I read that would be a yearly thing too as the battery taps out around that time.

Tracker I built myself and its hooked with to my own Amazon Web Service (AWS) cluster. A lot of trackers use the same basic protocol so you can use your own hardware and get it set up very cheaply and easily if you are even a little technical. Look up 'OpenGTS' and you'll be up and running in about half a day. The tracker I have has some really great features I haven't even started to explore e.g. Bluetooth to detect the driver, digital pins to switch relays etc.

The SIM costs about 5EUR every 6 months, the AWS I use for other things so its not a cost directly associated with the tracker. On the smallest system, which you can get for a year for free, you're looking at less than €5 a month at a guess.

The tile, yes they do claim to last about a year. I have an early one from their Kick starter on my keys and its pushing 18 months now. The App warns you when its low and you can reorder within the App at a pretty decent discount. I see it as last ditch effort really and probably your only inroad if they find the tracker itself.

IrishZeus

Any recommendations on good trackers that don't cost ridiculous money?

masterboy123

Tried looking myself in. Waited for 1 min or so. Moved inside the car, no alarm siren. I opened the door from inside, again no siren.

Took picture of dash to show you guys. There isn't any blinking red light

Wibbs

ironclaw wrote: »

Tracker I built myself and its hooked with to my own Amazon Web Service (AWS) cluster. A lot of trackers use the same basic protocol so you can use your own hardware and get it set up very cheaply and easily if you are even a little technical. Look up 'OpenGTS' and you'll be up and running in about half a day. The tracker I have has some really great features I haven't even started to explore e.g. Bluetooth to detect the driver, digital pins to switch relays etc.

I'd pay to have that setup. I try to avoid car electrics as I'm a thundering moron with electricity.

Me. Earlier. Plugging in my kettle.

IrishZeus wrote: »

Any recommendations on good trackers that don't cost ridiculous money?

+1

ironclaw

IrishZeus wrote: »

Any recommendations on good trackers that don't cost ridiculous money?

If you are a little bit technical, or know someone that is, this is a very simple system to get going: http://www.gps-telematics.co.uk/vehicle-tracking-products-at200.htm The unit is less than €100 delivered.

Hook up to a Raspberry Pi at home (Or in my case an AWS cluster), and your only on going cost would be the SIM card every 4 to 6 months.

Even if you don't set up the web side of things, you can still text the unit and get a location, in addition to some nice features like geofence and speed warnings. Well worth the money in my view.

IrishZeus

ironclaw wrote: »

If you are a little bit technical, or know someone that is, this is a very simple system to get going: http://www.gps-telematics.co.uk/vehicle-tracking-products-at200.htm The unit is less than €100 delivered.

Hook up to a Raspberry Pi at home (Or in my case an AWS cluster), and your only on going cost would be the SIM card every 4 to 6 months.

Even if you don't set up the web side of things, you can still text the unit and get a location, in addition to some nice features like geofence and speed warnings. Well worth the money in my view.

You lost me at "If"

ironclaw

IrishZeus wrote: »

You lost me at "If"

Ya know, I may sit down at the weekend and write up a tutorial for it. Honestly, its not beyond most people with some clear instructions. I'll post back here when I find the time.