Save Resources By Combining Dublin Bus Routes

DUBLINBUSGUY

Hi, all. I came up with an idea that would save the amount of buses allocated to different routes. Bus routes would be combined. This idea is not like other people's idea of "combined bus routes".

Below is a route I came up with that shows you how this idea works:

Dublin Bus would get rid of the 45A and the 46A. A new route would be formed that goes from Kilmacanogue to the Phoenix Park. It would follow the 45A route to Dún Laoghaire. Then it continues down to the bus terminus terminal behind the DART station but continues on past it and comes back out onto Crofton Road. The route lies outside the DART station (for passengers and if necessary, a bus driver change) for a minute or two before following the 46A route out to the Phoenix Park.

From Kilmacanogue Towards Phoenix Park

Mon-Fri: 05:00 05:12 05:20 then every 8 minutes till 19:00 then every 10 minutes till 21:00 21:15 21:30 21:45 22:00 22:15 22:30 22:45w 23:00w 23:25d

Sat: 05:30 05:45 06:00 06:15 06:30 06:45 07:00 then every 10 minutes till 19:00 then every 15 minutes till 23:00 23:25w

Sun: 06:00 06:30 07:00 07:30 08:00 then every 15 minutes till 20:00 then every 20 minutes till 22:20 22:40w 23:00w 23:25d

Route Variations: w = To Westmoreland Street d = to Dún Laoghaire

From Phoenix Park Towards Kilmacanogue

Mon-Fri: 05:00 05:20 05:40 06:00 06:08 06:16 06:24 06:32 then every 8 minutes till 19:00 then every 10 minutes till 21:00 21:15 21:30 21:45 22:00 22:15 22:30b 22:45w 23:00v 23:15v 23:30d

Sat: 05:45 06:00 06:20 06:40 07:00 07:15 07:30 07:45 08:00 then every 15 minutes till 22:15 22:30b 22:45b 23:00b 23:15b 23:30v 23:45v 00:00d

Sun: 06:15 06:45 07:15 07:45 08:20 then every 20 minutes until 22:20 22:40v 23:00v 23:15v 23:30d

Route Variations: b = To Bray w = From Westmoreland Street v = From Westmoreland Street To Bray d = To Dún Laoghaire


I would like to hear your feedback

LeinsterDub

http://busconnects.ie/

Dravokivich

DUBLINBUSGUY wrote: »

Hi, all. I came up with an idea that would save the amount of buses allocated to different routes. Bus routes would be combined. This idea is not like other people's idea of "combined bus routes".

Below is a route I came up with that shows you how this idea works:

Dublin Bus would get rid of the 45A and the 46A. A new route would be formed that goes from Kilmacanogue to the Phoenix Park. It would follow the 45A route to Dún Laoghaire. Then it continues down to the bus terminus terminal behind the DART station but continues on past it and comes back out onto Crofton Road. The route lies outside the DART station (for passengers and if necessary, a bus driver change) for a minute or two before following the 46A route out to the Phoenix Park.

From Kilmacanogue Towards Phoenix Park

I would like to hear your feedback

Has been done before with routes that became the current versions of 40 and 13.

I don't think they've really gained anything from a consumer point of view. It's an exercise for accountants.

DUBLINBUSGUY

Thanks for that link.

Kyleboy

DUBLINBUSGUY wrote: »

Hi, all. I came up with an idea that would save the amount of buses allocated to different routes. Bus routes would be combined. This idea is not like other people's idea of "combined bus routes".

Below is a route I came up with that shows you how this idea works:

Dublin Bus would get rid of the 45A and the 46A. A new route would be formed that goes from Kilmacanogue to the Phoenix Park. It would follow the 45A route to Dún Laoghaire. Then it continues down to the bus terminus terminal behind the DART station but continues on past it and comes back out onto Crofton Road. The route lies outside the DART station (for passengers and if necessary, a bus driver change) for a minute or two before following the 46A route out to the Phoenix Park.

From Kilmacanogue Towards Phoenix Park

Mon-Fri: 05:00 05:12 05:20 then every 8 minutes till 19:00 then every 10 minutes till 21:00 21:15 21:30 21:45 22:00 22:15 22:30 22:45w 23:00w 23:25d

Sat: 05:30 05:45 06:00 06:15 06:30 06:45 07:00 then every 10 minutes till 19:00 then every 15 minutes till 23:00 23:25w

Sun: 06:00 06:30 07:00 07:30 08:00 then every 15 minutes till 20:00 then every 20 minutes till 22:20 22:40w 23:00w 23:25d

Route Variations: w = To Westmoreland Street d = to Dún Laoghaire

From Phoenix Park Towards Kilmacanogue

Mon-Fri: 05:00 05:20 05:40 06:00 06:08 06:16 06:24 06:32 then every 8 minutes till 19:00 then every 10 minutes till 21:00 21:15 21:30 21:45 22:00 22:15 22:30b 22:45w 23:00v 23:15v 23:30d

Sat: 05:45 06:00 06:20 06:40 07:00 07:15 07:30 07:45 08:00 then every 15 minutes till 22:15 22:30b 22:45b 23:00b 23:15b 23:30v 23:45v 00:00d

Sun: 06:15 06:45 07:15 07:45 08:20 then every 20 minutes until 22:20 22:40v 23:00v 23:15v 23:30d

Route Variations: b = To Bray w = From Westmoreland Street v = From Westmoreland Street To Bray d = To Dún Laoghaire


I would like to hear your feedback

What's the point of running an 8 minute service between d/l and kilmacanogue?You also would need more buses to service such a long route so wouldn't be any savings.

Peregrine

Dravokivich wrote: »

Has been done before with routes that became the current versions of 40 and 13.

I don't think they've really gained anything from a consumer point of view. It's an exercise for accountants.

The 40 is a disaster because of it.

Combining two routes is one thing but the current 40 combined 40, 40A and 40C and ended up with a convoluted route that's worse for everyone.

dfx-

Dravokivich wrote: »

Has been done before with routes that became the current versions of 40 and 13.

I don't think they've really gained anything from a consumer point of view. It's an exercise for accountants.

It's the fundamental problem ignored by the window dressing around busconnects changes in general and for those routes especially..

If anything is to be learned from Network Direct for core routes like the 46A, 39A, 9, 13 (also known as the 13C), 15, 16, 27 (popularly seen as a 27C), 40 (often encountered as the 40C), 145..it is that they must not be messed with and combined/lengthened.

It was a result of a network designed for cuts and to cover up the cuts/gaps left behind and it isn't workable.

AlekSmart

dfx- wrote: »

It's the fundamental problem ignored by the window dressing around busconnects changes in general and for those routes especially..

If anything is to be learned from Network Direct for core routes like the 46A, 39A, 9, 13 (also known as the 13C), 15, 16, 27 (popularly seen as a 27C), 40 (often encountered as the 40C), 145..it is that they must not be messed with and combined/lengthened.

It was a result of a network designed for cuts and to cover up the cuts/gaps left behind and it isn't workable.

It MUST be borne in mind that Network Direct was a survival strategy,borne out of a situation which threatened the survival of the entire Dublin Bus network.

With Dublin Bus now in a far more stable situation,and with the NTA now also appearing to be coming to terms with some form of realization of what it can actually achieve,vs what it would like to,we are now at a point where Dublin Bus,could perhaps revise the elements of Network Direct which most obviously NOT working.

It may well be that Jarret Walkers eventual plan will do what Network Direct should have done originally,but it would be of benefit to everybody if the JW plan did not have to be imposed from outside,but takenup from inside the current setup. ?

The situation with ND'd routes such as the 13,27 and 40 is very obviously leading to semi-collapse on an all-too-regular basis,making them priority cases for attention,but that attention is required NOW,rather than in 24 months time.

MGWR

DUBLINBUSGUY wrote: »

Hi, all. I came up with an idea that would save the amount of buses allocated to different routes. Bus routes would be combined. This idea is not like other people's idea of "combined bus routes".

Below is a route I came up with that shows you how this idea works:

Dublin Bus would get rid of the 45A and the 46A. A new route would be formed that goes from Kilmacanogue to the Phoenix Park. It would follow the 45A route to D?n Laoghaire. Then it continues down to the bus terminus terminal behind the DART station but continues on past it and comes back out onto Crofton Road. The route lies outside the DART station (for passengers and if necessary, a bus driver change) for a minute or two before following the 46A route out to the Phoenix Park.

From Kilmacanogue Towards Phoenix Park

Mon-Fri: 05:00 05:12 05:20 then every 8 minutes till 19:00 then every 10 minutes till 21:00 21:15 21:30 21:45 22:00 22:15 22:30 22:45w 23:00w 23:25d

Sat: 05:30 05:45 06:00 06:15 06:30 06:45 07:00 then every 10 minutes till 19:00 then every 15 minutes till 23:00 23:25w

Sun: 06:00 06:30 07:00 07:30 08:00 then every 15 minutes till 20:00 then every 20 minutes till 22:20 22:40w 23:00w 23:25d

Route Variations: w = To Westmoreland Street d = to D?n Laoghaire

From Phoenix Park Towards Kilmacanogue

Mon-Fri: 05:00 05:20 05:40 06:00 06:08 06:16 06:24 06:32 then every 8 minutes till 19:00 then every 10 minutes till 21:00 21:15 21:30 21:45 22:00 22:15 22:30b 22:45w 23:00v 23:15v 23:30d

Sat: 05:45 06:00 06:20 06:40 07:00 07:15 07:30 07:45 08:00 then every 15 minutes till 22:15 22:30b 22:45b 23:00b 23:15b 23:30v 23:45v 00:00d

Sun: 06:15 06:45 07:15 07:45 08:20 then every 20 minutes until 22:20 22:40v 23:00v 23:15v 23:30d

Route Variations: b = To Bray w = From Westmoreland Street v = From Westmoreland Street To Bray d = To D?n Laoghaire


I would like to hear your feedback

Making bus routes longer does not save resources; it wastes them by making service more unreliable and putting additional stress on a smaller fleet of buses.

The 45A started as a route that originated in the city centre, pretty much paralleling the present-day DART to Dun Laoghaire and (apart from not running on Patrick Street/Mulgrave Street and Crofton Road anymore) continuing to Bray via the present route. As for service within Bray today, I won't comment on the dearth of service to the Esplanade these days, but I'd sure like to know whose bright idea that was.

AlekSmart wrote: »

It MUST be borne in mind that Network Direct was a survival strategy,borne out of a situation which threatened the survival of the entire Dublin Bus network

What was threatening Dublin Bus' survival? There are no serious threats to the bus network of a major city, other than the ineptitude of the politicians that run it. And if DB were more "stable" today (by what measure?), why are they planning to tinker with the network once more?

Something tells me that extra-long routes like today's 13, 15, 27, 40 et al are not saving the network whatsoever. Never mind the continued reversal of the legacy of the Wide Streets Commission, and building trams instead of "metros", which will result in ever growing chaos in Dublin's streets and a flight of jobs from the city centre. (Doesn't anyone get the feeling that the former turn-around for buses at the former Nelson's Pillar location, i.e. when O'Connell Street was much wider than it is today, was more reliable than multiple cross-city routes of over 20 km in length, some as long as 30 km?)

dfx-

AlekSmart wrote: »

It MUST be borne in mind that Network Direct was a survival strategy,borne out of a situation which threatened the survival of the entire Dublin Bus network.

With Dublin Bus now in a far more stable situation,and with the NTA now also appearing to be coming to terms with some form of realization of what it can actually achieve,vs what it would like to,we are now at a point where Dublin Bus,could perhaps revise the elements of Network Direct which most obviously NOT working.

It may well be that Jarret Walkers eventual plan will do what Network Direct should have done originally,but it would be of benefit to everybody if the JW plan did not have to be imposed from outside,but takenup from inside the current setup. ?

The situation with ND'd routes such as the 13,27 and 40 is very obviously leading to semi-collapse on an all-too-regular basis,making them priority cases for attention,but that attention is required NOW,rather than in 24 months time.

The fearful scenario is that the framework, ambition and attitude of Network Direct is the bedrock which is left untouched from this point on and all subsequent changes are aimed at making what it slashed work out.

Which it won't.

timmythesheep

DUBLINBUSGUY wrote: »

Hi, all. I came up with an idea that would save the amount of buses allocated to different routes. Bus routes would be combined. This idea is not like other people's idea of "combined bus routes".

Below is a route I came up with that shows you how this idea works:

Dublin Bus would get rid of the 45A and the 46A. A new route would be formed that goes from Kilmacanogue to the Phoenix Park. It would follow the 45A route to Dún Laoghaire. Then it continues down to the bus terminus terminal behind the DART station but continues on past it and comes back out onto Crofton Road. The route lies outside the DART station (for passengers and if necessary, a bus driver change) for a minute or two before following the 46A route out to the Phoenix Park.

From Kilmacanogue Towards Phoenix Park

Mon-Fri: 05:00 05:12 05:20 then every 8 minutes till 19:00 then every 10 minutes till 21:00 21:15 21:30 21:45 22:00 22:15 22:30 22:45w 23:00w 23:25d

Sat: 05:30 05:45 06:00 06:15 06:30 06:45 07:00 then every 10 minutes till 19:00 then every 15 minutes till 23:00 23:25w

Sun: 06:00 06:30 07:00 07:30 08:00 then every 15 minutes till 20:00 then every 20 minutes till 22:20 22:40w 23:00w 23:25d

Route Variations: w = To Westmoreland Street d = to Dún Laoghaire

From Phoenix Park Towards Kilmacanogue

Mon-Fri: 05:00 05:20 05:40 06:00 06:08 06:16 06:24 06:32 then every 8 minutes till 19:00 then every 10 minutes till 21:00 21:15 21:30 21:45 22:00 22:15 22:30b 22:45w 23:00v 23:15v 23:30d

Sat: 05:45 06:00 06:20 06:40 07:00 07:15 07:30 07:45 08:00 then every 15 minutes till 22:15 22:30b 22:45b 23:00b 23:15b 23:30v 23:45v 00:00d

Sun: 06:15 06:45 07:15 07:45 08:20 then every 20 minutes until 22:20 22:40v 23:00v 23:15v 23:30d

Route Variations: b = To Bray w = From Westmoreland Street v = From Westmoreland Street To Bray d = To Dún Laoghaire


I would like to hear your feedback

The issue is the damn 46A route is too long as it is!! With all the new housing in Honey Park and other areas good luck getting on a bus if you live around the Stillorgan area. Then, if you go get on, the bus is virtually empty from Leeson St. Dublin Bus need to look at where people in different areas go too and from. There are not many South side coastal dwellers looking to go as far as the Phoenix Park, and vise versa (and before anyone starts this is not South side snobbery - the same could be said for people along the north Dublin coast not wanting to go to Leeson St each day). The 46A was great when the terminus was Fleet St - now it just get snarled up every day on the North Circular and O'Connell St...It takes me 45mins on average to go from D'Olier St to Radisson in Stillorgan. Crazy.

Shorten the routes (like Paris), zone the fare system and have multiple card readers on poles both upstairs and downstairs on the bus - biggest delay is boarding. Increase the gap between stops (for example, on 46A there are 8 stops on a 1.5km stretch through Donnybrook).

Stephen15

What should really be done with the 46a and the 145 is turn them into an extremely high frequency BRT style service with multiple door bendybuses and stops to accommodate them with off board ticketing like what is being proposed for the 39a.

Stephen15

dfx- wrote: »

It's the fundamental problem ignored by the window dressing around busconnects changes in general and for those routes especially..

If anything is to be learned from Network Direct for core routes like the 46A, 39A, 9, 13 (also known as the 13C), 15, 16, 27 (popularly seen as a 27C), 40 (often encountered as the 40C), 145..it is that they must not be messed with and combined/lengthened.

The 46a is better now then it was pre network direct as it no longer has the diversions to serve Monkstown Farm or Stillorgan Village. I also think Hueston is a better terminus than Mountjoy Square for the 145.

Sam Russell

Stephen15 wrote: »

What should really be done with the 46a and the 145 is turn them into an extremely high frequency BRT style service with multiple door bendybuses and stops to accommodate them with off board ticketing like what is being proposed for the 39a.

They used to have the 10 which used bendy busses. They got rid of them because they were useless and noisy and bouncy. This route was integrated with the 46A (iirc).

No bendy bus should be used in Dublin because we have bendy roads that bendy busses cannot cope with. The 10 could not get round the turn from Lincoln Place onto Westland Row. No bendy busses, ever.

Stephen15

Sam Russell wrote: »

They used to have the 10 which used bendy busses. They got rid of them because they were useless and noisy and bouncy. This route was integrated with the 46A (iirc).

No bendy bus should be used in Dublin because we have bendy roads that bendy busses cannot cope with. The 10 could not get round the turn from Lincoln Place onto Westland Row. No bendy busses, ever.

Yeah but the bendybuses DB bought were crap as they only had two doors one of which was never used so passengers alighting had to walk all the to the front door. The stops weren't long enough for them either. The new proposal is to run them with luas like stops, ticket machines and run them on straighter routes with less curves.

LXFlyer

The articulated buses didn't work quite simply because the appropriate infrastructure was never put in place to operate them safely:
- Extended bus stop cages
- Retreated stop lines to facilitate the extended swing these buses have around corners

The spurious reasons suggested above are nonsense.

It is perfectly possible to operate articulated buses safely in Dublin if the local authorities put proper infrastructure in place.

Incidentally DB did not wish to buy them - the DTO insisted on their purchase but never followed through on any of the investment in infrastructure.

Banjoxed

Kyleboy wrote: »

What's the point of running an 8 minute service between d/l and kilmacanogue?You also would need more buses to service such a long route so wouldn't be any savings.

Still waiting for posters to put up "But can you show me where the demand for a bus between Kilmacanogue and the Phoenix Park is?". If this was a rail thread we would be getting exactly that.