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'Official' but discreet name change for trans kids

  • 14-06-2017 6:33pm
    #1
    Rob G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭


    I'm hoping there is going to be a loophole, and if there is I'm hoping someone here will have found it......

    It seems for a name change to be recognised by the government (passports etc), it has to be proved to be used for 3 years or be by a deed poll which has to be 'enrolled'. Enrolling it means making it public knowledge so forever anyone will be able to search Google and find that Rachael GirlsMiddlename Lastname used to be called Michael BoysMiddlename Lastname. Not something we want to do. It's not as if Kevin just decided he wanted to be called Barry. Anyone seeing it would know exactly what it meant.

    At the same time, we would like to take a holiday sometime in the next 2 and a half years - ideally in July this year - but not if it means putting her through the discomfort and shyte of customs interrogations.

    Anyone found a way past this, or is it just a brick wall?


Comments

  • #2
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,158 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Rob G wrote: »
    I'm hoping there is going to be a loophole, and if there is I'm hoping someone here will have found it......

    It seems for a name change to be recognised by the government (passports etc), it has to be proved to be used for 3 years or be by a deed poll which has to be 'enrolled'. Enrolling it means making it public knowledge so forever anyone will be able to search Google and find that Rachael GirlsMiddlename Lastname used to be called Michael BoysMiddlename Lastname. Not something we want to do. It's not as if Kevin just decided he wanted to be called Barry. Anyone seeing it would know exactly what it meant.

    At the same time, we would like to take a holiday sometime in the next 2 and a half years - ideally in July this year - but not if it means putting her through the discomfort and shyte of customs interrogations.

    Anyone found a way past this, or is it just a brick wall?

    You can ask Google to remove any sensitive personal information from its search database and I honestly dont think the enrolled deed poll is searchable through a google search.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #3
    Rob G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭Rob G


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    You can ask Google to remove any sensitive personal information from its search database and I honestly dont think the enrolled deed poll is searchable through a google search.

    Enrolled polls are published in Iris Oifigiuil like bankruptcies are so even if not in Google it'll still be out there in the public domain.


  • #4
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,158 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Rob G wrote: »
    Enrolled polls are published in Iris Oifigiuil like bankruptcies are so even if not in Google it'll still be out there in the public domain.

    Hmmm

    Can you not prove the name has been used for 2 years as per GR Cert process

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/changing_to_your_preferred_gender.html

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #5
    Rob G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭Rob G


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Hmmm

    Can you not prove the name has been used for 2 years as per GR Cert process

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/changing_to_your_preferred_gender.html

    It's less than a year since she transitioned and she's too young for a GR cert, you have to be 18 or 16 with a court order.

    We'll prob be stuck with taking a week in England or Scotland for the next couple of years instead of somewhere a bit warmer - no ID checks if you go to Britain from Belfast.


  • #6
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,158 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I'd advise speaking to TENI on this.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #7
    Rob G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭Rob G


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I'd advise speaking to TENI on this.

    I will. Sometimes I kind of forget how much support is out there. Thanks a lot JTP.


  • #8
    robyntmorton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭robyntmorton


    This isn't going to be much help, but, as I went through the process in January:

    Enrolling the deed isn't "officially" necessary, but practically it is. There are so many places that will not accept the deed without it having the enrolment stamp on it (driving licence for example).

    Yes, it does place it on a spreadsheet on the courts website. Yes, Google does index that sheet. It does not appear in Iris Oifiguil (I've just checked that for myself). Enrolling the deed makes it public knowledge. I had to use a specific search term in Google to get it to appear for myself. You may be able to have Google remove it from the index under personal data rules.

    Passports is where it gets tricky. I don't have answers here. I am speaking as an adult, with an enrolled deed poll, GRC, public service card, birth cert, bank account, and driving licence all in the correct name. I have an expired passport in the wrong name. The passport office are not responding to my email regarding what exactly they need to issue a passport renewal for me. For your daughter, who has none of these in her favour, they may look for use and repute for 2 years (very difficult to get without the enrolled deed) or they will either issue it in the wrong name with an also known as addition, or severely curtail validity.

    The whole system is a mess. As Joey has suggested, ask TENI for guidance, and also get writing to our new Minister for Foreign Affairs, who has ultimate responsibility for the passport service.

    Sorry I couldn't be the bearer of good news.

    Robyn


  • #9
    wordofwarning
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭wordofwarning


    Rob G wrote: »
    I'm hoping there is going to be a loophole, and if there is I'm hoping someone here will have found it......

    It seems for a name change to be recognised by the government (passports etc), it has to be proved to be used for 3 years or be by a deed poll which has to be 'enrolled'. Enrolling it means making it public knowledge so forever anyone will be able to search Google and find that Rachael GirlsMiddlename Lastname used to be called Michael BoysMiddlename Lastname. Not something we want to do. It's not as if Kevin just decided he wanted to be called Barry. Anyone seeing it would know exactly what it meant.

    Anyone found a way past this, or is it just a brick wall?

    This is deliberate. The state wants to make it hard to change your name without it being public knowledge. One such reason, what is stopping you racking up a ton of debt or committing a ton of crimes and covering this up by changing your name?

    Think about. If a bank has a judgement against John Smith and John Smith tried to cover this up by changing his name to John Doe. A bank might not be aware of that, if name changed as an attempt to cover up a judgement. Criminals could change their name to cover up their crimes.

    Getting a deed poll in this country is relatively easier than other countries


  • #10
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Sorry, OP, but without enrolling your daughter's deed poll at the High Court you'll be met with nothing but bureaucracy and arms-folded behind desk "I am sorry you feel that way" sort of responses almost everywhere you turn. Truth is, it's an embarrassing/humiliating process to go through, but it's best to do it sooner rather than later.

    And yes, it is not difficult to search enrolled deeds online - though, this is not something that concerns me in day-to-day life. Nobody looks at my ID and assumes anything other than that I have an unusual name.

    Frankly, I would be more concerned with the gender marker on her IDs, if as you say, she is not eligible for a GC before the age of 16 - which is, excuse my schoolgirl french, ****ed - I see many problems.


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