Need help with a Trust fund issue.

edmethod

My dad told me me and my brother were set to inherit 100,000 each from a trust fund set up by my grandfather when we both reached 18, it was meant as compensation for having lost our mother when we were kids as she didn't believe in life assurance, we never got it, this was 18 years ago, I know having left it so late is a huge factor in never recovering it but I haven't felt strong enough to pursue it until now, I got unresolved grief for 20 plus years in the form of depression from my mothers death so I'm even more determined to get it back now for loosing 20 plus years of my life.
I will try my best to give all the facts, all of this is based on my fathers word, he's not one to lie especially about something like this, he lost his copy of the trust fund, he and my uncle were to be the trustees, when my dad contacted my uncle he told my dad he had received enough money from my Grandfather which was true and that was the reason we didn't get anything, that my dad had already been given the money, the money he got from my Grandfather was to help save his business and had nothing to do with the trust fund, my uncle now claims there never was any trust fund after I asked an aunt about it so maybe he's shredded his copy of the trust, my uncle now runs the business my grandfather set up, a 100,000 to him his nothing but an extra few range rovers, he was entrusted in giving that money to me when I turned 18 but he pocketed it, I'm sure that's a breach of trust, my Dad as already got solicitors on it before but they said it was a dead end, the solicitor that set it up as passed on and they couldn't find any record of the will, Iv been told all legal documents must be kept on record and especially now were in the digital age it should be even easier, I think this is now a matter of recovering the legal document so instead of getting solicitors on the case would it not make more sense to hire some sort of private investigator to track it down, do we have P.I's in the country?, maybe the UK I'm not sure, once I have evidence of the will I'll take it to a solicitor.

That's pretty much everything, thank you for reading, appreciate your thoughts on this especially the idea of hiring someone to track down the actual trust fund document.

seamus

A P.I. is not going to have much more luck than a solicitor in tracking down a legal document which may or may not have existed. They won't have access to the same documentation databases.

Get a solicitor on it yourself. Forget about what your uncle may or may not have gotten or what your Dad has gotten and what has been told by whom. It sounds like there's significant confusion and chinese whispers in the family about it.

There is a time limit in which a challenge to a will can be made, and there is a maximum amount of time that document must be held before being shredded. The solicitor that you hire can advise you on all of this.

Tbh, it sounds like something of a very uphill battle though. You have no proof that a legal trust fund ever existed beyond what your father says (who may be mistaken as to the nature of the "fund"), and you have no copy of any will to begin knowing what your Grandfather's intention may have been. If the will has been shredded and there is no evidence that any legal trust fund existed (money in a savings account is not a trust fund), it may be time to move on and forget about the money.

ohnonotgmail

seamus wrote: »

A P.I. is not going to have much more luck than a solicitor in tracking down a legal document which may or may not have existed. They won't have access to the same documentation databases.

Get a solicitor on it yourself. Forget about what your uncle may or may not have gotten or what your Dad has gotten and what has been told by whom. It sounds like there's significant confusion and chinese whispers in the family about it.

There is a time limit in which a challenge to a will can be made, and there is a maximum amount of time that document must be held before being shredded. The solicitor that you hire can advise you on all of this.

Tbh, it sounds like something of a very uphill battle though. You have no proof that a legal trust fund ever existed beyond what your father says (who may be mistaken as to the nature of the "fund"), and you have no copy of any will to begin knowing what your Grandfather's intention may have been. If the will has been shredded and there is no evidence that any legal trust fund existed (money in a savings account is not a trust fund), it may be time to move on and forget about the money.

if the will has gone through probate then a copy of the will can be obtained from the probate office.

Marcusm

If probate was obtained on your grandfather's will (which it should have been in order to transfer any assets), it is a public document available to anyone at the Probate Office or National Archives. That's surely a first step. Likewise if the trust was properly established 20 years ago outside your grandfather'a will I would expect there to be legal and tax records somewhere although not publicly available.

nuac

Mod
Thanks for the helpful comments todate
Leaving open for discussion, complying always with rules against legal advice

Mr. Incognito

It could be monies lodged into Court etc.

I would put a notice in the law gazette in respect of any persons having any knowledge of a trust.

Pat Mustard

edmethod wrote: »

I think this is now a matter of recovering the legal document so instead of getting solicitors on the case would it not make more sense to hire some sort of private investigator to track it down, do we have P.I's in the country?, maybe the UK I'm not sure, once I have evidence of the will I'll take it to a solicitor.

That's pretty much everything, thank you for reading, appreciate your thoughts on this especially the idea of hiring someone to track down the actual trust fund document.

I think that you need to see a solicitor to look into this for you.

You may be able to get hold of a copy of your grandfather's Will, to see if the trust was incorporated into it. If a grant of probate was taken out in your grandfather's estate, then you should be able to take up a copy of the Will and Grant, which may assist you.

I see that you have posted that your father had instructed solicitors in relation to the matter, previously. However, it is not clear what work or what searches/enquiries were carried out by them, at that time.

Even if you find a copy of your grandfather's Will and even if it contains the relevant trust, the passage of time may cause you to experience difficulty in finding out the details of what happened in the course of the administration of the estate or during the administration of any trust fund. It may be difficult to trace assets after all of this time.

In any event, it will be easier for a solicitor to carry out the relevant searches than you, so hire a good solicitor.

NUTLEY BOY

The actual DEED of TRUST is what lies at the heart of this.

It is the document that sets out the rights and responsibilities of the various parties.

Probably a very exotic long shot, but is there any chance that the trust deed might have been memorialised at the Registry of Deeds ? If so, this will prove at a minimum that that the deed existed and you might even get a copy.

I do not care one bit for the opinion of one party that others have received enough - that is bang out of order.

This may also be a criminal matter if the money for which the trustees must account has been effectively stolen.

NUTLEY BOY

A few additional thoughts.

The solicitor who drafted the will is deceased. I would check with the records section of the Law Society to see if there are any details of the practice having been taken over by any other firm. If so, there may be records to be discovered. A few years ago, as an executor, I had to track down a solicitor who executed a will to get an affidavit from him but his firm was extinct and he had retired from practice. The Law Society told me who had taken over his firm and I tracked him from there.

I see what you say about time and that is certainly an issue as others have pointed out. I would expect time to run against you from the date on which your entitlement to the funds commenced. In other words the actual time delay here is your present age minus the age at which your entitlement arose. You believe it was 18 years of age but the deed of trust wording actually determines the relevant date.

If there has been calculated fraud on the part of the trustee(s) that may well nullify any arguments about being out of time to issue proceedings against them.

It may be possible to argue that the years of inaction due to depression should not run against you on the basis that your medical status may have placed you under a legal disability. Frankly, this could be quite a stretch to argue but not impossible.

Ultimately, on the time issue, I would expect a court to consider what prejudice, if any, was caused to the defaulting trustee by allowing an action to proceed out of time. If no real prejudice can be established and the interests of justice favour it such an action could well be allowed to proceed.

Overall, there seems to be quite a lot of work to be done here and the prospects seem to be poor. However, you need to explore the possibilities. If this comes off there is definitely a book in it...........

edmethod

Thanks for the responses, got an e - mail from a PI who says he just needs the deceased solicitors name and address of practice plus the date it was drafted which I don't even know, that was before I read the reply's here, I cant find any info on-line, I tried the national archives and the probate office, I cant even find my grand fathers obituary on-line let alone any legal documents, any other specific on-line databases that might be helpful?

ohnonotgmail

edmethod wrote: »

Thanks for the responses, got an e - mail from a PI who says he just needs the deceased solicitors name and address of practice plus the date it was drafted which I don't even know, that was before I read the reply's here, I cant find any info on-line, I tried the national archives and the probate office, I cant even find my grand fathers obituary on-line let alone any legal documents, any other specific on-line databases that might be helpful?

have you looked for his will in the probate office?

edmethod

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

have you looked for his will in the probate office?

Iv tried yes, online, Iv passed all the info on to the PI, maybe he as other resources then a solicitor does, he's a former homicide detective, waiting to get an estimate from him before he moves ahead, update from my Dad, the trust was set up just after my Mom passed in 1989, my Dad received 50,000 from my Grand father in cash, that money was separate from the trust but my uncle claims otherwise, he denies it ever existed so I'm sure he's destroyed whatever evidence there is.

Can anyone post a link for the probate office?, all I can find is courts.ie, any advice on how to search what info do I need to put in?

Peregrinus

edmethod wrote: »

. . . my Dad as already got solicitors on it before but they said it was a dead end, the solicitor that set it up as passed on and they couldn't find any record of the will, Iv been told all legal documents must be kept on record and especially now were in the digital age it should be even easier, I think this is now a matter of recovering the legal document so instead of getting solicitors on the case would it not make more sense to hire some sort of private investigator to track it down, do we have P.I's in the country?, maybe the UK I'm not sure, once I have evidence of the will I'll take it to a solicitor.

If there ever was a trust document, it was in the possession of the trustees (or their solicitors) and it was their responsibility to keep it. One of the trustees - your father - managed to lose his copy of the documents and the other - your uncle - denies that any trust ever existed and you suspect that he had destroyed his copy of the document.

It's not looking good. At this point you have no reason to think that any copy of the trust deed still exists, unless by some miracle your father's copy turns up behind a wardrobe at home.

The fact that your father - who presumably knew more about this than you do, and could answer questions, give details, etc - got solicitors onto it, and they reported a dead end, is even less encouraging.

If the trust was set up by your grandfather in his will, and the will went through probate after your grandfather's death, there's a copy of the will in the probate office and it's easily obtainable. However the solicitors instructed by your father will have thought of this; they'll have checked, and in all likelihood either there is no will in the probate office, or there is a will but it makes no mention of any trust. If you're in any doubt you can repeat this exercise yourself; it won't cost a huge amount.

Beyond that, I'm not sure that instructing a private investigator won't be throwing good money after bad. Your belief is that the likely copies of the trust document have been either lost or destroyed. If so, there's not much a private investigator can do to remedy the situation.

edmethod

Ok, can anyone provide me with the exact instructions on how to search the probate office?, this is the info I need can anyone post a link??, would be much appreciated, all I can find is courts.ie, so yeah its not looking good, I'm shocked to get negative feedback from anonymous strangers online, must be a first in the history of the internet, Mod deletion not having life insurance, my grandad wanted me to have it thats why he set it up, I Iv lost a good 20 years of my life to depression and unresolved grief and I'm absolutely no where in life as a result, even more reason to pursue this even if its not looking good, if I can find the document I will have proof after 20 years of here say, how can I act on a legal issue when I received no notification of it, I know my family, I know I can trust my Dads word and I Mod deletion.

Peregrinus

The process for doing a probate search is outlined here. Contact details are here.

nuac

MOD

Edmethod

Pls do not make possibly defamatory statements

Have amended your post to exclude some of these

Pat Mustard

Mod:

Off topic backseat moderation post deleted.

edmethod, please do not post in this thread again unless and until you resolve matters with nuac.