Man arrested in relation to Co Wicklow body parts discovery

Steve The Barman

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0613/882270-human-remains-in-wicklow/


some crazies out there!! :eek:

Are Am Eye

There may be an innocent explanation.

Wanderer78

This story has taken an even more disturbing turn!

somesoldiers

Doesn't say much for the Gardai saying it was the body of a 20 year old man, then turns out its a 50 year old woman

...And Justice

somesoldiers wrote: »

Doesn't say much for the Gardai saying it was a 20 year old man, then turns out its a 50 year old woman

Deflection, they knew more than they were telling. They didn't randomly selected some guy in wexford to arrest.

Wanderer78

somesoldiers wrote:

Doesn't say much for the Gardai saying it was a 20 year old man, then turns out its a 50 year old woman

I'd say it's hard to identify a body that's been chopped to pieces a few days ago

...And Justice

They knew exactly who they were looking for yesterday morning if he was picked up in wexford yesterday afternoon and brought to Wicklow bray gardaí.

myshirt

You'd want to be a real evil and sinister individual to carry out what was alleged here. Chop up and gut a lady, and then drive around flinging body parts from the car. Wtf. Christ.

yourdeadwright

ye this seems very odd for a number of reasons,

I'd imagine the person cut her body up as a way to dispose of it, ( which most have been a horrific thing to do ) but then just flings it out the window of the car ? if he'd had to buried it up there it would probably never be found,

ThisRegard

Apparently someone had tried to bury it but hit solid ground, the attempted burial site has been found.

AudreyHepburn

somesoldiers wrote: »

Doesn't say much for the Gardai saying it was the body of a 20 year old man, then turns out its a 50 year old woman

To be fair given the state the body was found in I couldn't blame them for making such a mistake.

What a way to go, poor woman.

AnneFrank

sickening what humans can be capable of

yourdeadwright

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

somesoldiers wrote: »

Doesn't say much for the Gardai saying it was the body of a 20 year old man, then turns out its a 50 year old woman

To be fair given the state the body was found in I couldn't blame for making such a mistake.

This could have been misdirection on purpose by the Garda,
They arrested the guy yesterday morning which would indicate they knew it was a women , as the body lead them to the accused,
Once the new broke they found a body the accused could have fled the country so saying it was a man may have been to make him think he was still safe,

Roger Hassenforder

I don't think you need to go Templemore or to study forensics to know the difference between a male and female torso
This was deliberate by the Gardai

AnneFrank

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I don't think you need to go Templemore or to study forensics to know the difference between a male and female torso
This was deliberate by the Gardai

could have been a man with moobs ?

...And Justice

According to RTE, the man presented himself to gardai in wexford and was arrested....maybe the gardai hadn't a clue and changed the story when the man presented himself ant probably told them..

SEPT 23 1989

maybe he ran out of lime

freshpopcorn

somesoldiers wrote: »

Doesn't say much for the Gardai saying it was the body of a 20 year old man, then turns out its a 50 year old woman

Isn't it the state pathologist that tells the Gardai this?

...And Justice

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Isn't it the state pathologist that tells the Gardai this?

Actually yes. Facepalm!!

dd972

Always found dismemberment really sick, it must take a certain sort of character who can do this.

Strong Life in Dublin

Apparently it was a son who done it to his mother, imagine chopping up your own mother.

eviltwin

An awful thing to happen to the poor woman. And a horrible way to discover someone you love has died. Fair play to the gardai finding a suspect so quickly.

Roger Hassenforder

AnneFrank wrote: »

could have been a man with moobs ?

triggered!

...And Justice

eviltwin wrote: »

An awful thing to happen to the poor woman. And a horrible way to discover someone you love has died. Fair play to the gardai finding a suspect so quickly.

A suspected family Member handed themselves in.

Wanderer78

...And Justice wrote: »

A suspected family Member handed themselves in.

mother and son by the looks of things

SEPT 23 1989

Mother in law

secman

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Mother in law

But she only had 2 sons, no daughters apparently. May she rest in peace.

Gatling

Found out earlier this morning she's one my good mates aunt.

Horrendous way to go

washman3

...And Justice wrote: »

Deflection, they knew more than they were telling. They didn't randomly selected some guy in wexford to arrest.

Largely helped by the fact that he 'randomly' gave himself up...;)

Danbo!

...And Justice wrote: »

According to RTE, the man presented himself to gardai in wexford and was arrested....maybe the gardai hadn't a clue and changed the story when the man presented himself ant probably told them..

The gardai apparently let him go as they thought the body was male. He walks in, admits the murder, and is let go because he says it's a woman. Arrested the next day after DNA results showed it was in fact female.

Captain Obvious

Danbo! wrote: »

The gardai apparently let him go as they thought the body was male. He walks in, admits the murder, and is let go because he says it's a woman. Arrested the next day after DNA results showed it was in fact female.

Unfortunately Irish law only allows someone to be detained for a maximum of 24 hours to investigate a murder like this. So the evidence has to be collected before the arrest. If they had arrested him and detained him when he first came in they would have to release him before having the evidence to question him on. Bit of a stupid restriction really.

anewme

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

Apparently it was a son who done it to his mother, imagine chopping up your own mother.

It was the son in law not her son.

Varik

Don't blame the guards for getting the sex and age wrong, heard that either the person who called in about the car or the first guards on site at first thought the torso was a deer.

Must have been in some state.

Suckit

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

Apparently it was a son who done it to his mother, imagine chopping up your own mother.

Not the Son - Son in Law by the looks of it.

https://www.buzz.ie/news/son-law-questioned-death-murdered-grandmother-242132

ChikiChiki

Danbo! wrote: »

The gardai apparently let him go as they thought the body was male. He walks in, admits the murder, and is let go because he says it's a woman. Arrested the next day after DNA results showed it was in fact female.

Gardai are very incompetent the last decade. They let a guy go not too long ago who went onto kill someone. Same could have happened here.

PhiloCypher

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Unfortunately Irish law only allows someone to be detained for a maximum of 24 hours to investigate a murder like this. So the evidence has to be collected before the arrest. If they had arrested him and detained him when he first came in they would have to release him before having the evidence to question him on. Bit of a stupid restriction really.

Surely if someone confesses to murdering and chopping up his mother in law , whether you think you have a male body or not, you do your due diligence and check to see if his mother in law is missing , and if she is , surely you have grounds to hold him till you discover her whereabouts or he's exposed as a time waster ?

Captain Obvious

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Surely if someone confesses to murdering and chopping up his mother in law , whether you think you have a male body or not, you do your due diligence and check to see if his mother in law is missing , and if she is , surely you have grounds to hold him till you discover her whereabouts or he's exposed as a time waster ?

Once you arrest them you have twenty four hours to question them before they must be released or charged. You also must have evidence to hold them. You could use the confession as the evidence to hold them with but then you have nothing else to question them about. Like I said, it's a stupid restriction.

irishrover99

It was one of my near neighbours who was killed and although the family have lived there all my life i've never seen the Mother,apparently she just moved back so she must have been gone since i was a child. I only said hello to the suspect last week in the shopping center but don't know his name.I just said hello as i know his girlfriend since i was a teenager and he had moved into the area with her a few years ago. Always seen him bringing lots of kids to the shops with him and bringing sweets for them to play in the front gardens.I can remember him doing the water meter protest as well. The girlfriend has now gone on holiday since Saturday night so i'd say their is more to come on this.

Personally i wouldn't have had him down as a killer and my opinion is that it was an argument that got way out of hand and he panicked. Handing himself in before they were looking for him shows he's no crime genius.

Suckit

It says in the above article that she went away for a year or two after her marriage broke up and came back. She worked in the Hospital industry, so worked odd hours, which may explain why you never saw her. (Early morning starts etc.).

He may have panicked, but to lift a hurl and hit a 61 year old hard enough to kill her?
Then drive down to Wexford to bury her in a shallow grave, only to come back 2 days later with a power saw, exhume her body cut her up and then bundle her body parts into his car, drive up to Wicklow and then scatter her body parts over 30km?

He may not be a criminal genius (very few are), but he is a scumbag and deserves to be locked up for life without parole.

bluewizard

Steve The Barman wrote: »

some crazies out there!! :eek:

No sh*t...?

murpho999

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Gardai are very incompetent the last decade. They let a guy go not too long ago who went onto kill someone. Same could have happened here.

Why have a go at Gardai about this, they appear to have done a good job here.

They often do in murder cases imho.

CPTM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Once you arrest them you have twenty four hours to question them before they must be released or charged. You also must have evidence to hold them. You could use the confession as the evidence to hold them with but then you have nothing else to question them about. Like I said, it's a stupid restriction.

I think a confession is surely enough reason to hold someone for the full 24 hours, unless they had actual confirmation from the pathologist that the torso was male, which they didn't. They should at least hold him until such information has been confirmed. My understanding of the below from the Irish times was that he was released within the 24 hours, despite his admission:

He had presented himself to Rathfarnham Garda station on Monday but was released as investigating gardaí in Bray believed the torso found dumped in a plastic bag on Saturday was male.
However, when the State Pathologist’s Office confirmed the victim was female on Tuesday and Ms O’Connor’s head was found, the suspect then became crucial to the inquiry.

If he had fled the country after having handed himself in, there would have been headlines all over the place. Luckily he kept himself in the country and told the gardaí where he'd be in Wexford. I also don't like the way they presented it to the public as if they had figured out something by themselves. They basically had to be persuaded by the suspect:

The suspect took gardaí to the field in Co Wexford on Tuesday and when clear physical evidence, including blood, hair and signs of digging the earth were found, the man was arrested.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/man-for-court-after-dismembered-remains-found-in-co-wicklow-1.3120687

Captain Obvious

CPTM wrote: »

I think a confession is surely enough reason to hold someone for the full 24 hours, unless they had actual confirmation from the pathologist that the torso was male, which they didn't. They should at least hold him until such information has been confirmed. My understanding of the below from the Irish times was that he was released within the 24 hours, despite his admission:



If he had fled the country after having handed himself in, there would have been headlines all over the place. Luckily he kept himself in the country and told the gardaí where he'd be in Wexford. I also don't like the way they presented it to the public as if they had figured out something by themselves. They basically had to be persuaded by the suspect:



http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/man-for-court-after-dismembered-remains-found-in-co-wicklow-1.3120687

You are missing the issue. So you hold him for the full 24 hours on the confession. What happens if you haven't found the evidence within the 24 hours? He has to be released anyway and you have to make an application to a court for an arrest warrant to arrest him again.

CPTM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

You are missing the issue. So you hold him for the full 24 hours on the confession. What happens if you haven't found the evidence within the 24 hours? He has to be released anyway and you have to make an application to a court for an arrest warrant to arrest him again.

I agree with you - My problem is, according to my understanding of the article, he was released within the 24 hours (underlining the word 'within'). They should have held him for the full 24 hours and only release him because the law demands they do, not because another station has a hunch it's a male torso (probably because of the gangland crimes recently, but who knows). Had they kept him in for 24 hours by the way, in this case they would still have had him in custody by the time pathologist's report came back the following day (Tuesday) confirming the torso was female.

Captain Obvious

CPTM wrote: »

I agree with you - My problem is, according to my understanding of the article, he was released within the 24 hours (underlining the word 'within'). They should have held him for the full 24 hours and only release him because the law demands they do, not because another station has a hunch it's a male torso (probably because of the gangland crimes recently, but who knows). Had they kept him in for 24 hours by the way, in this case they would still have had him in custody by the time pathologist's report came back the following day (Tuesday) confirming the torso was female.

Hindsight is a great thing. If they released him within the 24 hour period they can do so on station bail and simply follow him and arrest him if he tries to breach it by fleeing. If they had waited the full 24 hours and then released him they would have had to get a court order to re-arrest him. If he'd decided to get on a boat after that they could do nothing but wave.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

I don't know about the technicalities, and about holding for 24 hours, or how rearrest court orders like this work.

What I do know, is that it is completely unacceptable that a murderer handed himself in to a Garda station and was left go free. At minimum they didn't do their due diligence in making basic enquiries that would have not let a self admitted killer back out onto the streets.

Sadly , this springs to mind.

Captain Obvious

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I don't know about the technicalities, and about holding for 24 hours, or how rearrest court orders like this work.

What I do know, is that it is completely unacceptable that a murderer handed himself in to a Garda station and was left go free. At minimum they didn't do their due diligence in making basic enquiries that would have not let a self admitted killer back out onto the streets.

Sadly , this springs to mind.

So illegally detain him?

Are Am Eye

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I don't know about the technicalities, and about holding for 24 hours, or how rearrest court orders like this work.

What I do know, is that it is completely unacceptable that a murderer handed himself in to a Garda station and was left go free. At minimum they didn't do their due diligence in making basic enquiries that would have not let a self admitted killer back out onto the streets.

He would have been watched after release.
If he attempted to interfere with evidence he would have been stopped. And if he attempted to leave the jurisdiction he would have been arrested.
That aside, you gather all evidence first and then you arrest. For technical legal reasons you must put each item of evidence to him in interview and give him a chance to comment or answer on it.

irishrover99

Suckit wrote: »

It says in the above article that she went away for a year or two after her marriage broke up and came back. .

Fake news;)

As i said,i've lived around the corner from them for nearly 40 years and never once seen the woman and i knew the daughter,son and husband. Speaking to both my brother and neighbour, they didn't even know who she was either.

From what i've heard and from his apparent self defence admittance to the Garda, the reasons for him doing it give me reason to think like i said previously that it was a huge argument that got out of hand.

And no, i'm not defending him or doing a Adrian Kennedy phone show call in saying "he was a lovely chap",i'm just saying.

CPTM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

So illegally detain him?

I feel like our minds work a bit differently, Captain Obvious. Can we just agree on one thing?:

If there is a case at any time where a person has been horribly killed and disposed of in the same manner as this case, and very soon afterwards a person walks into a station admitting to the crime, the gardaí should keep them there for as long as they legally can (24 hours), unless of course they come across concrete information in the meantime which contradicts the suspect's confession.

Do you agree with that statement? ^

Boom_Bap

Thread Closed
This case is now sub judice now and in the courts.