Online coaching or Join a club?

S.L.F.

As the title says is it worth paying for an online coach who will provide you with a plan and give you advice or would it be more beneficial to join a local club?

djemba djemba

Definitely join a club

sideswipe

I wrestled with this for years- finally joined a club this year and have not regretted it for a second. The. Biggest difference for me is doing sessions with others means less chance of taking it easy or bailing on a session, I always thought I was running sessions hard until I started running with others!!!

rom

If you are unable to make 2 club runs a week online coaching may be better. Personally I simply can't make club sessions so work better with online coaching as its more flexible.

S.L.F.

rom wrote: »

If you are unable to make 2 club runs a week online coaching may be better. Personally I simply can't make club sessions so work better with online coaching as its more flexible.

How much is reasonable to pay for this service do you think, not asking specifically how much you pay

Testosterscone

S.L.F. wrote: »

How much is reasonable to pay for this service do you think, not asking specifically how much you pay

When looking for a coach I wouldn't rely on price as a judgement.

To give you examples I have seen copy and paste jobs with a few extra trimmings going for upwards of 100s compared to say someone like Catriona McKiernan who is a fraction of the cost.

Here is a checklist I would use myself;

- Is it a plan you are sent or weekly training?
- How much communication do you get? (regular meet ups, phone calls, weekly email updates)
- is the plan designed to take your background into account?
- Do you need accountability/motivation/a kick up the arse/to save you from yourself?
- Do you buy into coaches approach?
- Does the coach have a good track record (not just success stories look at the failures as well as anyone can play the numbers)

Some people need training partners to push out of their comfort zone in which case would advise club but again there are good and bad club coaches just like there are good and bad online ones.

S.L.F.

Testosterscone wrote: »

When looking for a coach I wouldn't rely on price as a judgement.

To give you examples I have seen copy and paste jobs with a few extra trimmings going for upwards of 100s compared to say someone like Catriona McKiernan who is a fraction of the cost.

Here is a checklist I would use myself;

- Is it a plan you are sent or weekly training?
- How much communication do you get? (regular meet ups, phone calls, weekly email updates)
- is the plan designed to take your background into account?
- Do you need accountability/motivation/a kick up the arse/to save you from yourself?
- Do you buy into coaches approach?
- Does the coach have a good track record (not just success stories look at the failures as well as anyone can play the numbers)

Some people need training partners to push out of their comfort zone in which case would advise club but again there are good and bad club coaches just like there are good and bad online ones.

Yeah that happened me before, i paid for a one off plan and it was exactly the same as a plan off the net. I gave the person my personal details, available running days, personal bests and goals and the person didn't even go to the trouble of giving me current training times. They just gave me goal times. Anyway I wrote back telling them as much and I got my money back.

Some real chancers out there for sure.

rom

rom wrote: »

If you are unable to make 2 club runs a week online coaching may be better. Personally I simply can't make club sessions so work better with online coaching as its more flexible.

I have had help from a people on here that never looked for money but I would give them a nice voucher after a target race as appreciation.

I know that you can pay from 40 - 100 euro a month for some people. tbh you are just covering the min for their time if you consider a school grind would be 35 euro for an hour or so. Its all about the accountability tbh. A club can offer that also as its like weight watchers for runners as you want to be able to keep the same speed as the session. If are going for sub 3 marathon or something like that a more specific plan can help but if you are just looking to improve a club would probably be best. Its really what is your goal.

panda100

S.L.F. wrote:

As the title says is it worth paying for an online coach who will provide you with a plan and give you advice or would it be more beneficial to join a local club?

Could you not do both? I am member of a tri club that I use for specific sessions. However, some of their sessions don't suit me time wise and training wise. I also started with an online coach from sports med ireland about two months ago. He tailors specific workouts for me, particularly around heart rate threshold training. I find both invaluble. Generally its fairly cheap to join a running club for a year.

S.L.F.

panda100 wrote: »

Could you not do both? I am member of a tri club that I use for specific sessions. However, some of their sessions don't suit me time wise and training wise. I also started with an online coach from sports med ireland about two months ago. He tailors specific workouts for me, particularly around heart rate threshold training. I find both invaluble. Generally its fairly cheap to join a running club for a year.

Thanks all.

I think I'm going to go up to a club this week and see what it's like for a week or two.
If I don't like it I'll go with an online coach for a month or two and see if that's any better.

average_runner

rom wrote: »

If you are unable to make 2 club runs a week online coaching may be better. Personally I simply can't make club sessions so work better with online coaching as its more flexible.

If you don't mind asking, what online coach do you work with?

Chivito550

Why somebody would part with their money without even actually meeting the person in real life is beyond me.

Djoucer

Chivito550 wrote: »

Why somebody would part with their money without even actually meeting the person in real life is beyond me.

With garmins/hr data etc, I imagine an online coach has a huge amount of data on their athletes. And in the good hands and at a fair price, it can be good value.

I can see why meeting someone in person is probably more beneficial but I can see why someone would be happy to pay an online coach.

Same logic applies to buying P&D marathoning book etc. Proven track record, good value etc

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

Why somebody would part with their money without even actually meeting the person in real life is beyond me.

How many coaches out there follow the lydiard method and never met him.?

DubOnHoliday

S.L.F. wrote: »

Thanks all.

I think I'm going to go up to a club this week and see what it's like for a week or two.
If I don't like it I'll go with an online coach for a month or two and see if that's any better.

Just my two cents... it took me more than a few weeks to start enjoying the club, when I joined it was just after the DCM and the only runners training were the speed squad, I did my best to tag along and that's two years ago now.
Our club issues a plan every week by email aside from two track sessions. Good luck.

Testosterscone

average_runner wrote: »

How many coaches out there follow the lydiard method and never met him.?

Big difference between following a methodology and a coach. If you understand the methodology you can tweak it to suit the circumstance

For me a plan and a coach are not the same thing.

To coach takes a bit of understanding around the personality of the person they are dealing with and their background to adapt things in real time. Likewise an athlete has to buy into coach and have complete faith otherwise very hard to follow instructions you might not agree with for one reason or another.

average_runner

Testosterscone wrote: »

Big difference between following a methodology and a coach. If you understand the methodology you can tweak it to suit the circumstance

For me a plan and a coach are not the same thing.

To coach takes a bit of understanding around the personality of the person they are dealing with and their background to adapt things in real time. Likewise an athlete has to buy into coach and have complete faith otherwise very hard to follow instructions you might not agree with for one reason or another.

That's if you have a personal coach. But a coach of a group 35 or so is pretty generic. An online coach that looks at your stats each week would be more of a value.

Of course training on your own is a pain while a club has the banter etc

Testosterscone

average_runner wrote: »

That's if you have a personal coach. But a coach of a group 35 or so is pretty generic. An online coach that looks at your stats each week would be more of a value.

Of course training on your own is a pain while a club has the banter etc

If you are supervising 35 people at once then that is not coaching, that is prescribing a session much like reading it out of a book. For starters you are not gonna get any club with 35 runners of equal enough level to tailor a session to suit their needs.

With club or a training group however I do feel there is value in being able to run a physically hard session while focusing on other aspects that are often overlooked in training; running relax at pace, good form, a focus on breathing as well as tuning into percieved effort all of which are vital skills to good racing.

average_runner

Testosterscone wrote: »

If you are supervising 35 people at once then that is not coaching, that is prescribing a session much like reading it out of a book. For starters you are not gonna get any club with 35 runners of equal enough level to tailor a session to suit their needs.

With club or a training group however I do feel there is value in being able to run a physically hard session while focusing on other aspects that are often overlooked in training; running relax at pace, good form, a focus on breathing as well as tuning into percieved effort all of which are vital skills to good racing.

I would say a lot of club coaches have 20 or more in their group.

I agree with your second point but would point out a lot of people use their watches for perceived effort and we race using the pace on the watch. Running at a relax pace can be determine by heart rate

Testosterscone

average_runner wrote: »

I would say a lot of club coaches have 20 or more in their group.

I agree with your second point but would point out a lot of people use their watches for perceived effort and we race using the pace on the watch. Running at a relax pace can be determine by heart rate

If there is more than 10 - 12 then for sessions you would really want to be staggering sessions (some running while others on recovery based on levels etc) that way coaches are actually able to ensure that athletes are working hard enough/not too hard or other aspects and inputs that should be given.

There is the argument from some that racing to the watch can actually hold us back at times as well though and could be a case for being more in tune with racing brain and percieved effort.

Also your last point on HR I should clarify that point I was making was not about running at right effort levels but running relaxed "at pace" meaning that form is good to the point where we are not expending unnecessary energy fighting our own mechanics (for example shoulders too tight, stride shortening etc)

S.L.F.

Chivito550 wrote: »

Why somebody would part with their money without even actually meeting the person in real life is beyond me.

In my own personal situation, the one where the person gave me the one off plan. This particular person is quite well known and has a very good reputation.

In my head I thought that they were going to give me a plan with training to suit my current level of fitness.
I also thought they were going to want me to mail them to let them know how I progressed after it was executed.
It was quite clinical, hand over the money and here's your plan.

In fairness it wasn't that expensive but in saying that I could've pulled a very similar plan off any fitness website in 2 minutes so I was expecting more service than I got.

When I mailed them I said I know a little about running and that the paces were wrong they then apologised and offered me my money back and offered to meet me. I preferred to just get my money back. I think it might have been awkward.

Maybe I was expecting too much when it is a one off plan after all but when the paces are inaccurate then its taking the piste.

As for the online coach, I know the person's c.v. and they seem to have a high success rate.

The reason I'm going to try a running club first is because it might be easier with face to face coaching and running with others plus its cheaper.

I just really don't like the idea of running hard straight after work. I usually like to nap before I run in the evening.

I think for online coaching it depends on how well you communicate with the coach online or on the phone and how disciplined you are following an online plan.
At the end of the day you're still running on your own and accountable for yourself.
I imagine the people looking for online coaching who are successful must be very driven in the first place.
I mean how do some of these people knock say 30 minutes off their time in a year when having a coach as apposed to working along.

mrmoonlight

Join a club there would surely be experienced coach/runners to motivate/guide you Also joining club is great to have Craic and meet new people. Great time of year to be joining aswell!

DubOnHoliday

With my club we have recently taken part in two hill running relay races, I must say it was the best craic having the support of your teamates & clubmates on a day like that.

hot buttered scones

rom wrote:

If you are unable to make 2 club runs a week online coaching may be better. Personally I simply can't make club sessions so work better with online coaching as its more flexible.

This has been my main reason for not joining a club. I'd barely make one session a week, nevermind two, because of work. On the other hand I can't justify the spend for an online coach. If it wasn't for boards I'd be lost.

RayCun

hot buttered scones wrote: »

This has been my main reason for not joining a club. I'd barely make one session a week, nevermind two, because of work. On the other hand I can't justify the spend for an online coach. If it wasn't for boards I'd be lost.

Lots of people in my club only make one session a week, or might go a few weeks without getting to a session then hit a run of them. I think that's common across all clubs.

You also meet up with your clubmates at races - that's probably where I see them the most.

hot buttered scones

RayCun wrote:

Lots of people in my club only make one session a week, or might go a few weeks without getting to a session then hit a run of them. I think that's common across all clubs.

You also meet up with your clubmates at races - that's probably where I see them the most.

There's that and maybe company on long runs etc. too. I also fancy doing a bit of cross country and maybe some track stuff that's only open to people in clubs. Just have to pick one and sign up I suppose.

spurscormac

hot buttered scones wrote: »

There's that and maybe company on long runs etc. too. I also fancy doing a bit of cross country and maybe some track stuff that's only open to people in clubs. Just have to pick one and sign up I suppose.

A club gives you the chance to find others to train with at the same pace as you.
It's not just the organised sessions though, we have a good gang at a similar training pace and often meet in the evening or weekends to get a few miles in, either long runs, recovery runs or tempos outside of the club sessions.

There's no way I'd be doing those sessions without club mates.

Also, due to other commitments lately, I have missed a lot of sessions and had very sporadic training, one good week followed by two weeks with little to no runs in.
I find it much easier to slot back into training when things settle down by being in a group.