Sealed DART trains, sunny weather and aircon...

H3llR4iser

Just a quick one - stuck on one of the Tokyuu DART trains, windows are sealed and the aircon is always off...I understand that Ireland hardly ever justifies its use on the "cooling" setting, but are there any reasons why it's never on, even on the rare sunny days? It's easily 30+ degrees inside...

Del.Monte

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Just a quick one - stuck on one of the Tokyuu DART trains, windows are sealed and the aircon is always off...I understand that Ireland hardly ever justifies its use on the "cooling" setting, but are there any reasons why it's never on, even on the rare sunny days? It's easily 30+ degrees inside...

Should have opening windows.

end of the road

Del.Monte wrote: »

Should have opening windows.

agree, aircon isn't a good substitute for opening windows.

H3llR4iser

end of the road wrote: »

agree, aircon isn't a good substitute for opening windows.

Yes, but unless you break those windows, you can't open them - these trains (IE calls them "class 8500") were clearly built around the concept of interior climate control; The windows are fixed glass panels. The older trains have opening windows, and they're fine.

XPS_Zero

I've been on the 8500s when the AC was on and it's really nice.

The ICRs and Enterprise also have (especially the latter) really good AC.

But for some reason half the drivers of 8500s don't seem to turn it, or the heating in winter, on.

MGWR

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Just a quick one - stuck on one of the Tokyū DART trains, windows are sealed and the aircon is always off...I understand that Ireland hardly ever justifies its use on the "cooling" setting, but are there any reasons why it's never on, even on the rare sunny days? It's easily 30+ degrees inside...

Perhaps, but what's the humidity?

Broken air conditioning on a US commuter train during the summer is hellish by contrast. Close to 100 percent humidity and temps at or over 38 degrees with windows that do not open (unless you pull the emergency moulding and remove the whole window; illegal, but I've seen this being done) is pure "jigoku". :mad:

H3llR4iser

MGWR wrote: »

Perhaps, but what's the humidity?

Broken air conditioning on a US commuter train during the summer is hellish by contrast. Close to 100 percent humidity and temps at or over 38 degrees with windows that do not open (unless you pull the emergency moulding and remove the whole window; illegal, but I've seen this being done) is pure "jigoku". :mad:

Actually very high with a lot of people in the carriage - humans expel humidity at an absurd rate

Never been on an US commuter train, but I'm Italian...the trains and buses down there, during the summer with temperatures sometimes at or over 40c, are an experience I wouldn't recommend to anyone. Also, you get the weird "Italian thing" about "being hit by the air" - in the middle of August, you have people getting on a crowded train/bus, with no aircon, and going to close the windows up because it's "windy" :eek:

Charles Babbage

Operators should be required to monitor the temperatures on their vehicles and keep it within an appropriate level.

MGWR

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Operators should be required to monitor the temperatures on their vehicles and keep it within an appropriate level.

Not every operator is an HVAC repairman. And I don't know what it would cost to have the older forced ventilation on air-conditioned cars as an alternate/backup system in case of failure of air conditioning, but it can't cost all that much in reality.

XPS_Zero

I'm on the enterprise now, air conditioning fins recessed into every window and the contrast to the 8500 dart we just got off is stark.  I had to take my tshirt off there were globs of sweat going down the middle of my chest down my abs the tshirt was soaked, I'm glad I had a jersey in my bag to change into when I got to the station.  It was packed, and reminded me of an LA subway car at rush hour.  No windows, breathing in a mix of peoples antipersperants and sprays and hair spray all combining and racing for my lungs.
I'm begining to wonder if the 8500s HAVE air conditioning.
The funny thing is there we are all standing, all seats full nearly...all looking like we wanna die...among the Irish theres maybe 4 of us inc me with a tan looking like we've never seen a sun before or felt heat before ....and there is this indian tourist couple sitting in the seats near me as relaxed as anything not even a bead of sweat on either of them casually taking pictures, this temperature must be nothing to them but it's killing us.

H3llR4iser

The 8500s do seems to have aircon, at least the airtight ones - I discovered this morning. I got onboard at Clongriffin and the train was positively baking, but the driver had the...good spirit to switch the aircon on just after Harmonstown. Stepping off it in the city, the difference in temperature from the train and outside was very clear.

L1011

Is it not only the second batch of 8500s, e.g. a tiny fraction of the entire DART fleet, with aircon?

The windows on the others are pretty ineffectual and when the outside air is already warm its of limited use

H3llR4iser

L1011 wrote: »

Is it not only the second batch of 8500s, e.g. a tiny fraction of the entire DART fleet, with aircon?

The windows on the others are pretty ineffectual and when the outside air is already warm its of limited use

It might be - from my very crude observation, it might very well be that it's just two sets of 4 elements; Usually, combined together to form a single consist, which seems to be in rotation always at the same time(s) on the Malahide branch...at least, anytime I was on the DART outside of my usual commuting hours, it was units with opening windows (which are ineffectual, but at least create a bit of a flow).

tabbey

L1011 wrote: »

Is it not only the second batch of 8500s, e.g. a tiny fraction of the entire DART fleet, with aircon?

The windows on the others are pretty ineffectual and when the outside air is already warm its of limited use

The earlier batches of 85/8600 emus are not air conditioned. These have opening windows, and a conventional semi-eliptical roof.

The later batch are air conditioned, have no opening windows and their rooves are distinctive, being flat,with air conditioning units on top.

To be frank, trains which stop every two or three minutes, do not benefit from airconditioning, it is a waste of money and ineffective.

Since the delivery of Mk II coaches in 1972, all new mainline coaches in Ireland have had air conditioning and generally work satisfactorally The Mk III push pull were the exception, being intended for outer suburban.

The main problem with air conditioning is that it may fail (or indeed perhaps not be turned on?) This is bad enough in Ireland, especially this week, but horrific in most other countries.

Once in US I was on an Amtrak train from Niagara Falls to New York, in an Amcoach with defective aircon, I complained to the guard/ conductor, he said it was only because the doors were open at a station, in fact the station was the only time we got relief. Eventually after a few hours, I copped on and moved to another coach, rather than the one allocated to me.

Another time in Germany, during an early heatwave, the train I was on had oppressive heat. I could see what appeared to be instructions in Deutsch, for opening the emergency window. Unfortunately the Germans were all too regimented to resort to such measures, preferring to suffer in silence.

Charles Babbage

MGWR wrote: »

Not every operator is an HVAC repairman. And I don't know what it would cost to have the older forced ventilation on air-conditioned cars as an alternate/backup system in case of failure of air conditioning, but it can't cost all that much in reality.

I still think they should be required to monitor and report on the conditions. The question of what to do next may be open to debate, but ignoring the problem isn't


It is things like this that cause people to despair of public transport.

whisky_galore

Del.Monte wrote: »

Should have opening windows.

Any modern rail system in a hot climate that I've been on doesn't have opening windows, they have air con that actually works!

Opening windows defeats the purpose of air con. Besides opening windows mean just more fixtures the public manhandle and eventually break.

Del.Monte

whisky_galore wrote: »

Any modern rail system in a hot climate that I've been on doesn't have opening windows, they have air con that actually works!

Opening windows defeats the purpose of air con. Besides opening windows mean just more fixtures the public manhandle and eventually break.

Likewise any air conditioning system needs to be maintained, and switched on, and is something else to go wrong - far less likely that a window will break.

Atlantic Dawn

Do the DARTS that do have AC have climate control or just AC? If it's climate control it should be permanently on no matter what the weather, even snow.

whisky_galore

Del.Monte wrote: »

Likewise any air conditioning system needs to be maintained, and switched on, and is something else to go wrong - far less likely that a window will break.

The glass might not break but wear/tear, windows flopping and sliding open, seals wearing out, letting in draughts.