Buying a used car, asked to sign a disclaimer

Muckie

Hi Guys,

Been years since I bought a car from a dealer.

Wife wanted a mini 07 model, found what I thought was a fairly decent one.

When I went to check it out, make the purchase, I was informed it had a check engine light, (car needed an 02 sensor)which they wouldnt be fixing.

Wouldnt move on the price either.

Finally i would be asked to sign a disclaimer form, as they wouldnt offer any warranty whats so ever.

Needless to say, I said no thanks and left.
Is this the "norm" in the car dealer world, surely they should be able to stand over what they are selling?

jk23

I think you made the right decision sounds fairly dodgy to me, now the car might be fine but if they are digging their heels over this then it wouldn't give you much hope for future dealings with them.

Muckie wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Been years since I bought a car from a dealer.

Wife wanted a mini 07 model, found what I thought was a fairly decent one.

When I went to check it out, make the purchase, I was informed it had a check engine light, (car needed an 02 sensor)which they wouldnt be fixing.

Wouldnt move on the price either.

Finally i would be asked to sign a disclaimer form, as they wouldnt offer any warranty whats so ever.

Needless to say, I said no thanks and left.
Is this the "norm" in the car dealer world, surely they should be able to stand over what they are selling?

marklazarcovic

Never buy from that place,ever

dev100

Muckie wrote:

Been years since I bought a car from a dealer.]Wife wanted a mini 07 model, found what I thought was a fairly decent one.When I went to check it out, make the purchase, I was informed it had a check engine light, (car needed an 02 sensor)which they wouldnt be fixing.Wouldnt move on the price either.Needless to say, I said no thanks and left. Is this the "norm" in the car dealer world, surely they should be able to stand over what they are selling?

Unless he is giving you a super trade price on the car and low mileage type of car and looks good, no warranty wouldn't bother me but if he is charging you more than say buying it from done deal then I wouldn't bother with it . Have you compared prices with private sales .

That sensor should be reasonably cheap you'd prob fit it yourself .

Muckie

dev100 wrote: »

Unless he is giving you a super trade price on the car and low mileage type of car and looks good, no warranty wouldn't bother me but if he is charging you more than say buying it from done deal then I wouldn't bother with it . Have you compared prices with private sales .

That sensor should be reasonably cheap you'd prob fit it yourself .

Thing is after he mentioned the senor, I was still fairly sold on the car.
(like you say, i could change that myself)
But the disclaimer thing....I mentioned if i bought a toaster from Aldi, they'd at least give a warranty, but not even a 3 month one for these.

No cheaper than done dealers/ adverts!

So yep, went up the road to another dealer, got a 3 month warranty for a few bob, even a mini cooper to boot!

Bit of an eye opener, if any one wants to know the dealer, pm us, incase your going mini shopping

ellobee

dev100 wrote: »

Unless he is giving you a super trade price on the car and low mileage type of car and looks good, no warranty wouldn't bother me but if he is charging you more than say buying it from done deal then I wouldn't bother with it . Have you compared prices with private sales .

That sensor should be reasonably cheap you'd prob fit it yourself .

Thats if it is actually just an O2 sensor, if its cheap an easy to fit then why wouldnt the dealer do it, I would be very suspicious, you were right to go elsewhere

Bigus

It's says more about Mini BMW problems than the dealer, if the truth be told.

beauf

Bigus wrote: »

It's says more about Mini BMW problems than the dealer, if the truth be told.

Are they troublesome

James Bond Junior

We had a mini a few years ago that "only needed" a wheel speed sensor. Hundreds in parts later the problem wasn't and couldn't seem to be solved. Mini's when they go wrong can cost a bomb if it's anything sensor or electrics related.

Muckie

James Bond Junior wrote: »

We had a mini a few years ago that "only needed" a wheel speed sensor. Hundreds in parts later the problem wasn't and couldn't seem to be solved. Mini's when they go wrong can cost a bomb if it's anything sensor or electrics related.

So i've bought an "automotive adventure" waiting to happen :P

beauf

Had a similar issues with Opels. Dunno if it's the cars or the dealers.

Had expensive sensor issues with abs on VW but always got it sorted.

Minis seem reasonable in the used market. They are nice to drive and have a bit of character. If a bit impractical due to the small size. I prefer the look of the older BMW mini's myself.

biko

OP, what is the name of this place?

grogi

Muckie wrote: »

Finally i would be asked to sign a disclaimer form, as they wouldnt offer any warranty whats so ever.

They are selling a car that is not 100% working - and want to make sure that you have heart that.

I would have properly check that car and if it wasn't crashed and no other sign of malfunction and the price was competitive enough, go for it.

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Never buy from that place,ever

That garage is more honest than 90% of other garages. Once they have your money, you don't have their attention. Any fix they do will be the most awful cheap fix to imagine, just to get rid of you. Unless you want to trade up again...

Muckie

biko wrote: »

OP, what is the name of this place?

PM send to you of the name of the dealer.

Kimbot

If its a simi dealer don't they have to give at least a 3 month warranty on a second hand car or something like that?

grogi

jonnycivic wrote: »

If its a simi dealer don't they have to give at least a 3 month warranty on a second hand car or something like that?

There might be some expectations around being fit for purpose, but this is very shady ground.

In general, the dealer don't have to give any warranty apart from roadworthiness at the moment of sale. Unless agreed otherwise.

The dealer in question does that - wants to make sure the client understood they agreed the car is not roadworthy.

dev100

beauf wrote:

Are they troublesome

My bosses wife's mini one had a problem with the boot door closing . He reckoned it had shifted on the hinge .... anyways brought the tools and we had a look at it and I had figured it had to have been strained as it was sitting flush to the body panels . I couldn't figure it out

As we were holding it the frigging hinge broke !!! There had been a weakness it the hinge and had been shifting , you could see the fatigue marks in it . I think he paid 200 Euro for 2 new hinges and labor . The roof liner had to be dropped and it was bolted on the inside.

ellobee

grogi wrote: »

There might be some expectations around being fit for purpose, but this is very shady ground.

In general, the dealer don't have to give any warranty apart from roadworthiness at the moment of sale. Unless agreed otherwise.

The dealer in question does that - wants to make sure the client understood they agreed the car is not roadworthy.

They cant retail a car thats not roadworthy,
Under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980, a car must be in roadworthy condition when sold and has to be fit for purpose. If it’s not, the buyer has comeback, irrespective of any get-out clauses the dealers may think they have

grogi

ellobee wrote: »

They cant retail a car thats not roadworthy,
Under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980, a car must be in roadworthy condition when sold and has to be fit for purpose. If it’s not, the buyer has comeback, irrespective of any get-out clauses the dealers may think they have

They can. Keep reading the mentioned Act Section 13 (3).

3) Subsection (2) of this section shall not apply where—

(a) it is agreed between the seller and the buyer that the vehicle is not intended for use in the condition in which it is to be delivered to the buyer under the contract, and

(b) a document consisting of a statement to that effect is signed by or on behalf of the seller and the buyer and given to the buyer prior to or at the time of such delivery, and

(c) it is shown that the agreement referred to in paragraph (a) is fair and reasonable.

extra-ordinary_

ellobee wrote: »

They cant retail a car thats not roadworthy,
Under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980, a car must be in roadworthy condition when sold and has to be fit for purpose. If it’s not, the buyer has comeback, irrespective of any get-out clauses the dealers may think they have

...not if the dealer has declared that the vehicle is sold as seen with no guarantee of road worthiness but in fact actually needs repair.

ellobee

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

...not if the dealer has declared that the vehicle is sold as seen with no guarantee of road worthiness but in fact actually needs repair.

No they cant, and there is legal precedence, Just ask Judge Matthew Deery

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/protection-for-used-car-buyers-1.1265848

I even heard of a case where a guy bought a trade car from a garage and was told it was not roadworthy and in fact dangerous, he drove it out of the garage and subsequently crashed, he sued the garage and won, the judge said it was the salesmans responsibilty to ensure that the car was not driven and it should only have left the dealership on a transporter.

bucketybuck

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Never buy from that place,ever

For being perfectly up front about what they were offering and what the customer would be getting?

Garages can't win, if they had cleared the fault, said nothing and took the guys money they would be the worst in the world, here they do the opposite and make it perfectly clear there is a fault there and they are still the worst in the world. Can't win.

Meeeee79

Bigus wrote: »

It's says more about Mini BMW problems than the dealer, if the truth be told.

How???

extra-ordinary_

ellobee wrote: »

No they cant, and there is legal precedence, Just ask Judge Matthew Deery

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/protection-for-used-car-buyers-1.1265848

I even heard of a case where a guy bought a trade car from a garage and was told it was not roadworthy and in fact dangerous, he drove it out of the garage and subsequently crashed, he sued the garage and won, the judge said it was the salesmans responsibilty to ensure that the car was not driven and it should only have left the dealership on a transporter.

The story your posted link points to is not comparable.

grogi

ellobee wrote: »

No they cant, and there is legal precedence, Just ask Judge Matthew Deery

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/protection-for-used-car-buyers-1.1265848

I even heard of a case where a guy bought a trade car from a garage and was told it was not roadworthy and in fact dangerous, he drove it out of the garage and subsequently crashed, he sued the garage and won, the judge said it was the salesmans responsibilty to ensure that the car was not driven and it should only have left the dealership on a transporter.

If there is no written agreement, the garage has to stand behind the car. If there is a written agreement - and the garage in question wanted to have one - they are covered.

ellobee

bucketybuck wrote: »

For being perfectly up front about what they were offering and what the customer would be getting?

Garages can't win, if they had cleared the fault, said nothing and took the guys money they would be the worst in the world, here they do the opposite and make it perfectly clear there is a fault there and they are still the worst in the world. Can't win.

The right thing to do would be to fix the fault, otherwise you cant sell it to the public, if you dont want to spend money on trying to fix it then move it on to the trade.

grogi

ellobee wrote: »

The right thing to do would be to fix the fault, otherwise you cant sell it to the public, if you dont want to spend money on trying to fix it then move it on to the trade.

Stop spreading false information.

Faulty motor vehicle CAN be sold to the public if a few basic conditions mentioned in the Sales of Goods Act 1980 are met.

jimmycrackcorm

bucketybuck wrote:

Garages can't win, if they had cleared the fault, said nothing and took the guys money they would be the worst in the world, here they do the opposite and make it perfectly clear there is a fault there and they are still the worst in the world. Can't win.

They can win. Fix the problem, give a three month warranty. Otherwise why shouldn't there just be a private sale and a price to match.

extra-ordinary_

ellobee wrote: »

The right thing to do would be to fix the fault, otherwise you cant sell it to the public, if you dont want to spend money on trying to fix it then move it on to the trade.

They are. They're selling it to you as a trade buyer according to the contract you just signed.

Muckie

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

They are. They're selling it to you as a trade buyer according to the contract you just signed.

Thing is, when i checked the advert, there is no mention of any issue with the car, or having to sign a disclaimer.

If I had of known,I wouldn't have bothered them.
Guess its one to ask if ring and are thinking of buying a 2nd hand car from a dealer.

bucketybuck

ellobee wrote: »

The right thing to do would be to fix the fault, otherwise you cant sell it to the public, if you dont want to spend money on trying to fix it then move it on to the trade.

This is simply not true. I've worked in garages all my life, there are literally hundreds of thousands of vehicles sold as seen, sold with various defects, sold where it was made very clear that it was a heap of junk we were selling for buttons just to get rid of it.

If dealers couldn't sell a vehicle sold as seen then good luck ever trading in a car ever again, because its the trade-ins that cause the dealers to get stuck with these lemons.

grogi

Muckie wrote: »

Thing is, when i checked the advert, there is no mention of any issue with the car, or having to sign a disclaimer.

If I had of known,I wouldn't have bothered them.
Guess its one to ask if ring and are thinking of buying a 2nd hand car from a dealer.

That's the problem and I wouldn't touch them because of that.