Power flush

popa smurf

Anyone do a power flush on there heating system themselves mine is an open vented straight forward system, indoor oil boiler one back boiler a rad near back door 15 rads in total thinking of tackling this myself much appreciated any advice thanks

jmBuildExt

was going to get it done on my last place but my plumber friend advised against it as part of the system used micro-bore.

Sleepy

I did a chemical flush myself. Easy enough to do and cleared some amount of crap out of the system. Radiators heat up much faster and get hotter. Good results for a total spend of about €26!

popa smurf

Sleepy wrote: »

I did a chemical flush myself. Easy enough to do and cleared some amount of crap out of the system. Radiators heat up much faster and get hotter. Good results for a total spend of about €26!

Thanks sleepy can you explain how you went about it , rent a machine hook it up to rad chemical used etc if you have the time thanks

Sleepy

No machine, I just bought the chemicals to do it in the builders providers, drained the system, added the cleaning agent and let the system run for a week with it in, drained the system again (water came out thick and black), filled and drained a second time then re-filled the system adding the anti-corrosive.

It's not supposed to be anywhere near as effective as a power-flush but it worked a treat for us and was a tiny fraction of the cost of getting a power-flush done. It probably helped that I changed out a few of the radiators for new ones as we were re-decorating at the time (so there would have been less sludge in the system to deal with). You could probably get the same benefit by taking out the radiators and flushing them with a power-hose in the back garden so the chemical flush would only have to deal with the pipework etc.

popa smurf

Sleepy wrote: »

No machine, I just bought the chemicals to do it in the builders providers, drained the system, added the cleaning agent and let the system run for a week with it in, drained the system again (water came out thick and black), filled and drained a second time then re-filled the system adding the anti-corrosive.

It's not supposed to be anywhere near as effective as a power-flush but it worked a treat for us and was a tiny fraction of the cost of getting a power-flush done. It probably helped that I changed out a few of the radiators for new ones as we were re-decorating at the time (so there would have been less sludge in the system to deal with). You could probably get the same benefit by taking out the radiators and flushing them with a power-hose in the back garden so the chemical flush would only have to deal with the pipework etc.

Thanks again sleepy very informative

Dtp1979

Sleepy wrote: »

I did a chemical flush myself. Easy enough to do and cleared some amount of crap out of the system. Radiators heat up much faster and get hotter. Good results for a total spend of about €26!

You got lucky. 9/10 a complete waste of money. 26 euro? 1 bottle of decent cleaner Is around 35 euro.

Dtp1979

jmBuildExt wrote: »

was going to get it done on my last place but my plumber friend advised against it as part of the system used micro-bore.

Your plumber doesn't know what he's talking about. I've powerflushed dozens of microbore systems. Never 1 issue

Dtp1979

popa smurf wrote: »

Anyone do a power flush on there heating system themselves mine is an open vented straight forward system, indoor oil boiler one back boiler a rad near back door 15 rads in total thinking of tackling this myself much appreciated any advice thanks

Don't tackle it yourself. Especially with a dual system. You have to understand how a system works and especially a dual system. It's hard to explain in laymans terms.
Don't chemical flush unless you can guarantee that you can clear all the cleaner from the system, which you won't. And chemical flush is useless anyway tbh

Sleepy

Dtp1979, funny how it's always those that make money from power flushing that say the chemical flushes are useless!

Even if you buy the chemicals from a rip-off merchant like Woodies, it seems worth spending €40 or €50 before forking out hundreds for a power flush.

Dtp1979

Sleepy wrote: »

Dtp1979, funny how it's always those that make money from power flushing that say the chemical flushes are useless!

Even if you buy the chemicals from a rip-off merchant like Woodies, it seems worth spending €40 or €50 before forking out hundreds for a power flush.

Each to their own I guess. I'm the one who's been at jobs cleaning up the mess from have-a-go-heroes like yourself always looking for the cheap fix or cheap option. Chemical flushes are useless. I could easily charge the same money(as many professionals do) for a chemical flush as I do for a proper powerflush. Customers would be none the wiser.
As for your own job, I hope you cleared all the descaling chemical from your system. And I also hope you didn't add any inhibitor to the system unless your water readings were perfect

the_pen_turner

If no skin in this game but I was helping a plumber one day. We went to a job that someone chemical flushed the month before. Customer wasn't happy , thought it would be better. We power flush ed it. The amount of sludge that came out was amazing. Some of it like hair gel

the_pen_turner

If no skin in this game but I was helping a plumber one day. We went to a job that someone chemical flushed the month before. Customer wasn't happy , thought it would be better. We power flush ed it. The amount of sludge that came out was amazing. Some of it like hair gel

popa smurf

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Each to their own I guess. I'm the one who's been at jobs cleaning up the mess from have-a-go-heroes like yourself always looking for the cheap fix or cheap option. Chemical flushes are useless. I could easily charge the same money(as many professionals do) for a chemical flush as I do for a proper powerflush. Customers would be none the wiser.
As for your own job, I hope you cleared all the descaling chemical from your system. And I also hope you didn't add any inhibitor to the system unless your water readings were perfect

Careful now sleepy you could blow up the house if you don't use the expensive cleaner from a recommended retailer who likes to keep all his plumber mated in work😂😂😂😂😂

Dtp1979

popa smurf wrote: »

Careful now sleepy you could blow up the house if you don't use the expensive cleaner from a recommended retailer who likes to keep all his plumber mated in work😂😂😂😂😂

In reference to the cleaner, there's good brands and cheap brands. Either way using either brand on a chemical flush is a waste of money but there'll always be cheapskates around to cut corners.

Sleepy

Dtp1979 wrote: »

As for your own job, I hope you cleared all the descaling chemical from your system. And I also hope you didn't add any inhibitor to the system unless your water readings were perfect

I filled and drained the system a few times to rinse out the descaler and when the water was draining clear I added the inhibitor. It's not exactly rocket science tbh, it doesn't take a genius to read the instructions.

I'm quite happy to agree that a powerflush will always be more effective than a chemical-only job. I think it's a bit silly to claim that the chemical flushes are "useless" though. The results of using them are visible in the water you drain out of the system and I'm not the only person who'll say they improved the performance of their radiators by doing one. It may be the equivalent of an "Italian tune-up" on a car versus a total engine flush with Terraclean but both have their place.

Dtp1979

Sleepy wrote: »

I filled and drained the system a few times to rinse out the descaler and when the water was draining clear I added the inhibitor. It's not exactly rocket science tbh, it doesn't take a genius to read the instructions.

I'm quite happy to agree that a powerflush will always be more effective than a chemical-only job. I think it's a bit silly to claim that the chemical flushes are "useless" though. The results of using them are visible in the water you drain out of the system and I'm not the only person who'll say they improved the performance of their radiators by doing one. It may be the equivalent of an "Italian tune-up" on a car versus a total engine flush with Terraclean but both have their place.

Well no. Let's call one cutting corners and the other one doesn't. I guarantee you if you take a radiator off the wall and empty it out you'll get loads of black gunge. Fair enough you got results. More than likely all you've done is delay the problem for a little longer.
Your right, it isn't rocket science. As you've read the instructions I'm sure you'll have seen the part where the system must be thouroughly clean, which is impossible by just draining the system. And on the inhibitor instructions it'll state not to add inhibitor to a system that isn't clean. And from my extensive experience, adding inhibitor to a dirty system causes a lot more problems than it fixes

Sleeper12

Sleepy wrote: »

I filled and drained the system a few times to rinse out the descaler and when the water was draining clear I added the inhibitor. It's not exactly rocket science tbh, it doesn't take a genius to read the instructions.

I'm quite happy to agree that a powerflush will always be more effective than a chemical-only job. I think it's a bit silly to claim that the chemical flushes are "useless" though. The results of using them are visible in the water you drain out of the system and I'm not the only person who'll say they improved the performance of their radiators by doing one. It may be the equivalent of an "Italian tune-up" on a car versus a total engine flush with Terraclean but both have their place.

This isn't necessarily the case. If you just use water & no chemicals you'll get black water. Keep doing it till the water runs clean. It'll look the same as your chemical flush.
Now if after you had finished & were happy with the job done & someone did a real powerflush you'd be floored at what the chemicals left behind. There really is no comparison. To claim that you powerflushed your system with chemicals isn't an accurate statement. I say this with respect. Even the instructions on the chemicals you used didn't claim it was a powerflush

Sleepy

Eh, I didn't state anywhere that I performed a power-flush.

Dtp1979

Sleepy wrote: »

Eh, I didn't state anywhere that I performed a power-flush.

I'm sure he meant flush

Sleeper12

Sleepy wrote:

Eh, I didn't state anywhere that I performed a power-flush.

You are right. My mistake. I'm not having a go at you. Just saying that there is no comparing chemicals with power flush.

popa smurf

Ok as this is a DIY forum can you explain how to do a power flush with a machine where can i rent them and hook it up etc etc

Dtp1979

15 rads 2 boilers. You're probably gonna need 3 bottles of fernox f5 or adey mc5. Circulate and use both boilers for a week before the flush, as often as you can.
Get a good machine with big magnetic filter attached. There's only 2 machines worth talking about. Kamco or fernox.
Before you start try and identify why the sludge is being created. It's usually a pipework issue. And on dual systems it's nearly always a piping issue. Ideally rectify this before the job starts.
Remove all non return valves, pumps etc. Any pipework that is on a gravity circuit will have to be temporarily changed to pumped pipework. Same with the coils on the cylinder. Make sure you blank off any open ends and more importantly replace blanks when done.
Each machine works differently so follow instructions for its operation. DO NOT attach machine onto radiator pipes. This is pointless.
Make sure all auto bypass valves are closed and reset after the job. Make sure the flushed water is ideally withinh 10% of the incoming mains before you add the inhibitor. This is important. Use a vibrating rad hammer to clear sludge but use with caution.
Each machine has its own specs but usually 50-60 degree water is hot enough. Secondary flush is with cold water. You'll need 3 bottles of inhibitor btw. Again use fernox or adey or sentinel. As I said earlier ideally have pipework corrected before re instating the system back to gravity where appropriate. Balance the heating system while the apprentice cleans up

Edit. Actually fixing pipework before any cleaner is what I'd do normally. Pipe it correctly. Then add cleaner and use both boilers for a week. Make sure all rads are turned on. Your also gonna want to isolate one boiler and pump it on its own circuit. I.e. Treat it as a rad

popa smurf

Dtp1979 wrote: »

15 rads 2 boilers. You're probably gonna need 3 bottles of fernox f5 or adey mc5. Circulate and use both boilers for a week before the flush, as often as you can.
Get a good machine with big magnetic filter attached. There's only 2 machines worth talking about. Kamco or fernox.
Before you start try and identify why the sludge is being created. It's usually a pipework issue. And on dual systems it's nearly always a piping issue. Ideally rectify this before the job starts.
Remove all non return valves, pumps etc. Any pipework that is on a gravity circuit will have to be temporarily changed to pumped pipework. Same with the coils on the cylinder. Make sure you blank off any open ends and more importantly replace blanks when done.
Each machine works differently so follow instructions for its operation. DO NOT attach machine onto radiator pipes. This is pointless.
Make sure all auto bypass valves are closed and reset after the job. Make sure the flushed water is ideally withinh 10% of the incoming mains before you add the inhibitor. This is important. Use a vibrating rad hammer to clear sludge but use with caution.
Each machine has its own specs but usually 50-60 degree water is hot enough. Secondary flush is with cold water. You'll need 3 bottles of inhibitor btw. Again use fernox or adey or sentinel. As I said earlier ideally have pipework corrected before re instating the system back to gravity where appropriate. Balance the heating system while the apprentice cleans up

Edit. Actually fixing pipework before any cleaner is what I'd do normally. Pipe it correctly. Then add cleaner and use both boilers for a week. Make sure all rads are turned on. Your also gonna want to isolate one boiler and pump it on its own circuit. I.e. Treat it as a rad

Handy enough

Dtp1979

popa smurf wrote: »

Handy enough

Wash out the small tank in the attic too if you can