Giving aid to countries with a high birth rate?

Atlantic Dawn

Kenya in the news again, average size of a family 4.4, the average size of a family in Ireland is 1.8 people, when will someone wise the feck up and tell them to use rubbers or else stop riding when they feel like it when the land simply can't support those family sizes. Some general cop to feck on needed rather than PC attitude of here you go with some aid and a telethon every year or two. Can these idiotic Catholic teaching charities at it for 30 plus years not see sense?

I HAVE JUST returned from northern Kenya and it?s one of the most difficult trips I?ve ever been on. Over the past twelve years, I?ve travelled to a lot of the countries in the developing world where Tr?caire works, but I?ve never seen hunger and despair like I saw last week.


A prolonged drought is gripping Kenya, Somalia, South Sudan and Ethiopia and it has left millions facing starvation. It is really devastating to see the level of need and, as always, especially hard to witness the condition of the children caught up in this catastrophe.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-ive-never-seen-hunger-and-despair-like-i-saw-last-week-in-kenya-3414590-Jun2017/

AnGaelach

It's a major problem in Somalia - regions that are prone to famine tend to be populated because aid workers will deliver food to the regions. Sure, it alleviates their suffering in the short-term, but it does nothing to actually help them in the mid or long-term, in merely prolongs their and their family's suffering.

Aid should be coupled with moving them to areas that can manage the population sustainable, and we should focus on development of their economies rather than prolonging suffering.

LeinsterDub

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Kenya in the news again, average size of a family 4.4, the average size of a family in Ireland is 1.8 people, when will someone wise the feck up and tell them to use rubbers or else stop riding when they feel like it when the land simply can't support those family sizes. Some general cop to feck on needed rather than PC attitude of here you go with some aid and a telethon every year or two. Can these idiotic Catholic teaching charities at it for 30 plus years not see sense?



http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-ive-never-seen-hunger-and-despair-like-i-saw-last-week-in-kenya-3414590-Jun2017/

Like the rest of the world once it makes economic sense the birth rate will fall for example Indian.

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/staying-alive/the-myth-of-indias-population-explosion/

greencap

1 vasectomy = 1 bag of rice.

Atlantic Dawn

greencap wrote: »

1 vasectomy = 1 bag of rice.

Or perhaps an Eye Phone :pac:

Persephone kindness

Sure If they need it

prinzeugen

They need to sell the stuff to pay the internet bill so they can tell you they have $53 million (Fifty three million states dollar) that they need to move to your bank account.

For a fee..

the_syco

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Kenya in the news again, average size of a family 4.4, the average size of a family in Ireland is 1.8 people, when will someone wise the feck up and tell them to use rubbers or else stop riding when they feel like it when the land simply can't support those family sizes.

They don't use rubbers because the missionaries who went out their first convinced them that that was a bad idea.

They have large families, as traditionally the kids die off from disease, war, famine, etc, and more kids equaled more chance of some of them surviving long enough to be able to support the parents.

Atlantic Dawn

the_syco wrote: »

They don't use rubbers because the missionaries who went out their first convinced them that that was a bad idea.

They have large families, as traditionally the kids die off from disease, war, famine, etc, and more kids equaled more chance of some of them surviving long enough to be able to support the parents.

Tr?caire needs to be disbanded or prescribed as an illegal organisation.

B.A._Baracus

We?l I havent toug?t about it to?o much to be hon?est :pac:


But to be serious aid is often a scam. Skim, skim and skim. Then what ever reaches the people is what they get.

Widdershins

There's a school of thought that says that, on the whole, foreign aid doesn't work.

It seems to be a classic case of the feel-good factor for people who think only with their heart, the kind of people who often do more harm than good.

suicide_circus

the_syco wrote: »

They don't use rubbers because the missionaries who went out their first convinced them that that was a bad idea.

They have large families, as traditionally the kids die off from disease, war, famine, etc, and more kids equaled more chance of some of them surviving long enough to be able to support the parents.

Some of them avoid condoms because of Catholic missionaries. The vast majority avoid condoms because the ride is better without one, it's seen as more manly and culturally speaking, having loads of kids is seen as a kind of wealth.

Stigura

suicide_circus wrote: »

Some of them avoid condoms because of Catholic missionaries. The vast majority avoid condoms because the ride is better without one, it's seen as more manly and culturally speaking, having loads of kids is seen as a kind of wealth.

And cows? Lots of cows. Like Leitrim?

Tokyo

I somehow managed to read the thread title as 'Giving AIDS to countries who breed like rabbits?' and was imagining a much darker discussion... :eek:

ezra_pound

The Irish were "breeding like rabbits" in the early to mid 1800s which resulted in the great famine.

How very Trevelyanist of you to suggest that we should have been given no aid and that a laisez faire approach would have best relieved the situation.

Wibbs

ezra_pound wrote: »

The Irish were "breeding like rabbits" in the early to mid 1800s which resulted in the great famine.

Eh no it didn't. The famine was a child of many mothers, but population size was one of the least important.

ezra_pound

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh no it didn't. The famine was a child of many mothers, but population size was one of the least important.

Well we can disagree on that if you like but the facts stand that a) the Irish family size was larger than Kenya's today and therefore b) op would argue that we shouldn't have been given aid.

pickarooney

AnGaelach wrote: »

It's a major problem in Somalia - regions that are prone to famine tend to be populated because aid workers will deliver food to the regions. Sure, it alleviates their suffering in the short-term, but it does nothing to actually help them in the mid or long-term, in merely prolongs their and their family's suffering.

Aid should be coupled with moving them to areas that can manage the population sustainable, and we should focus on development of their economies rather than prolonging suffering.

Usually the reason they're suffering from drought is that the government has moved them into such an area either to let them die or to procure aid relief which they'll spend on arms

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

They don't use rubbers because the missionaries who went out their first convinced them that that was a bad idea.

They have large families, as traditionally the kids die off from disease, war, famine, etc, and more kids equaled more chance of some of them surviving long enough to be able to support the parents.

Good that a carcrash of a thread about "tell em get the ride with rubbers" and "ban Trocaire" prompted at least one thoughtful response.

Wesser

The reason the birth rate is high is because the women are not empowered.
If you educate women the birth rate will fall.
It's all about the role of women in society.
If you think it all comes down to condoms then thats a very simplistic and ignorant way of looking at things

cocaliquid

AnGaelach wrote: »

It's a major problem in Somalia - regions that are prone to famine tend to be populated because aid workers will deliver food to the regions. Sure, it alleviates their suffering in the short-term, but it does nothing to actually help them in the mid or long-term, in merely prolongs their and their family's suffering.

Aid should be coupled with moving them to areas that can manage the population sustainable, and we should focus on development of their economies rather than prolonging suffering.

Where would you move millions of people that has sustainable land. ???

Wibbs

Wesser wrote: »

The reason the birth rate is high is because the women are not empowered.

That's just as simplistic an explanation viewed through the prism of one aspect of western political thinking. It's but one factor among many. Educating women(never mind the the overall education status of either gender is low) means also bringing them into a modern industrialised workforce where their labour is required. One that doesn't exist in the poorer areas. A modern industrialised workforce requires a modern industrialised society. One might even argue that gender equality came about largely because modern industrialised society required education and labour of both genders to work.

maneno

That's northern Kenya,have you done a study on them having 4plus kids?get a grip!!

_Brian

I don't think there is one or any simple reason for population growth and larger families in these countries.

Look back one or two generations in Ireland and families were large, few of my friends came from families with 10 or more children and they were born in the 1970's !!

I think corruption in government plays a large part in famine etc as there is no leadership and no national development or planning for progression. Successive governments are treating their countries in the same manner they saw colonial governments treated them, as a source to draw personal wealth from rather than a country to be developed and progressed.

As mentioned above religion and lack of education are a problem, but these stem from poor governance for decades.

maneno

the_syco wrote: »

They don't use rubbers because the missionaries who went out their first convinced them that that was a bad idea.

They have large families, as traditionally the kids die off from disease, war, famine, etc, and more kids equaled more chance of some of them surviving long enough to be able to support the parents.

Which era is this that you are referring to? Having large families because of survival from war? When was Kenya at war?

wtlltw

cocaliquid wrote: »

AnGaelach wrote: »

It's a major problem in Somalia - regions that are prone to famine tend to be populated because aid workers will deliver food to the regions. Sure, it alleviates their suffering in the short-term, but it does nothing to actually help them in the mid or long-term, in merely prolongs their and their family's suffering.

Aid should be coupled with moving them to areas that can manage the population sustainable, and we should focus on development of their economies rather than prolonging suffering.

Where would you move millions of people that has sustainable land. ???

cocaliquid wrote: »

AnGaelach wrote: »

It's a major problem in Somalia - regions that are prone to famine tend to be populated because aid workers will deliver food to the regions. Sure, it alleviates their suffering in the short-term, but it does nothing to actually help them in the mid or long-term, in merely prolongs their and their family's suffering.

Aid should be coupled with moving them to areas that can manage the population sustainable, and we should focus on development of their economies rather than prolonging suffering.

Where would you move millions of people that has sustainable land. ???

Mullingar

Samaris

Mod Note: I have changed the title of this to be slightly more accurate and less gratuitously offensive.

maneno

Samaris wrote: »

Kenya has been involved in two wars, the Mt Elgon insurgency in 2005-08 and the War in Somalia since 2011. Neither are particularly devastating to Kenya itself.

Both the child mortality rate and the child birth rate have dropped, halved just about, since independence in 1960. They are simply following the normal path of less children once there's a better chance of their children not dying of disease or hunger. Ireland did the same. As did basically everywhere else.

Of all the stuff in the world to complain about, Kenya's steadily dropping birth rate really isn't one of the sensible ones.

Mt Elgon insurgency,that's a small region in Kenya so wouldn't say "Kenya was at war", and as for Somalia,that's Kenya sending its troops to fight the war there

Samaris

Damn, my post got caught before I deleted it. Oh well.

Yeah, I was answering which wars Kenya had been involved in and made the point that neither were particularly damaging to Kenya. The rest of the reasons are more cogent, basically natural population dynamics settling as less children die early. This is the same pattern that has basically happened everywhere. To pick out Kenya as being somehow extraordinary is a tad short-sighted, especially as their birth rate is steadily dropping, exactly in line with expectations from a lower infant mortality rate.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

Merciful sweet Jesus, the thought of another famine in Africa sickens me to my core. It really hits me on an emotional level, and I'm appalled at the potential outcomes. After all, this could mean another wave of publicity for Bob Geldof! :pac:

the_syco

ezra_pound wrote: »

The Irish were "breeding like rabbits" in the early to mid 1800s which resulted in the great famine.

Eh, no. The brits taking all the food caused the Irish not to have any.

maneno wrote: »

Which era is this that you are referring to? Having large families because of survival from war? When was Kenya at war?

Al-Shabaab likes to kidnap children to make them into child soldiers.

Victor

Development isn't something that happens overnight, it takes at least 50-100 years. Promote development and populations stabilise. Deny development and populations keep rising.

Famine is usually more about conflict than the complete absence of food.

maneno wrote: »

Which era is this that you are referring to? Having large families because of survival from war? When was Kenya at war?

At least 6 times in the last 100 years.

World War 1 - British Empire -v- German Empire
World War 2 - British Empire -v- Italy
Mau Mau Uprising https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_Uprising
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Kenya

the_syco wrote: »

Eh, no. The brits taking all the food caused the Irish not to have any.

This statement is more loaded than is generally acknowledged. There was trade in food, imports or wheat and maize and exports of other foods.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

Wesser wrote: »

The reason the birth rate is high is because the women are not empowered.
If you educate women the birth rate will fall.
It's all about the role of women in society.
If you think it all comes down to condoms then thats a very simplistic and ignorant way of looking at things

It's a pity the feminists are too busy directing their attention towards major issues like 'manspreading' and defeating the nasty patriarchy in the Abbey theatre.

Don't expect much support from trendy feminists when it comes to important causes like female empowerment in Muslim third world countries. They wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. Too uncomfortably real for them. Synthetic, disposable, 'right on' causes are the latest fashion dont'cha know. Sharing a photo of a woman who has been doused with acid for questioning her husband is a direct route to low social status on instagram. Jeez.