RTÉ losing international rugby but keeping soccer.

political analyst

I believe that many Irish rugby fans are angry that RTÉ lost the rights to coverage of the Six Nations and Rugby World Cup (RWC) tournaments because TV3 HD is not available on Saorview.

I believe that the number of people in the Republic who support the Irish rugby team is much bigger than the number of people who follow League of Ireland (LoI) or Champions League (CL) soccer.

Would RTÉ have held on to the rugby rights if it had dropped its LoI and CL rights and so let TV3, eir sport and Sky split the Republic rights to those soccer tournaments among themselves? I believe that it's absurd to keep LoI and CL rights at the expense of Six Nations and RWC.

mcgucc22

political analyst wrote: »

I believe that many Irish rugby fans are angry that RTÉ lost the rights to coverage of the Six Nations and Rugby World Cup (RWC) tournaments because TV3 HD is not available on Saorview.

I believe that the number of people in the Republic who support the Irish rugby team is much bigger than the number of people who follow League of Ireland (LoI) or Champions League (CL) soccer.

Would RTÉ have held on to the rugby rights if it had dropped its LoI and CL rights and so let TV3, eir sport and Sky split the Republic rights to those soccer tournaments among themselves? I believe that it's absurd to keep LoI and CL rights at the expense of Six Nations and RWC.

I believe I can fly

Ol' Donie

Am i reading this right?

RTE lost the six nations because of it's...league of Ireland coverage?

I don't know the figures but what RTE spends on LOI wouldn't get you a week's shopping in Aldi.

political analyst

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Am i reading this right?

RTE lost the six nations because of it's...league of Ireland coverage?

I don't know the figures but what RTE spends on LOI wouldn't get you a week's shopping in Aldi.

I think RTÉ might have had enough money to hold on to the Six Nations and RWC rights if it had relinquished its rights to LoI and CL.

jeffk

LOI coverage is a joke.

No point cherry picking the big matches, effect crowds at the gate and don't sub the club's for lost revenue. Even try picking big matches where the away crowd wouldn't be that big in the first place(like say Derry in Cork)

A better highlight show of both divisions is needed, even just goals in 1st division. Not the current effort at silly o clock Monday, Sunday evening might be better.

I'd love to see the LOI end up on sky, look at what they did with the GAA(OK better product to start, but sure sky could work their magic on LOI)

kneemos

Probably because they're sixty million in debt and are selling land to keep the fancy Digestives on the tea trolly.

Gotta wonder what we're paying them for if all of our major sports events can be got elsewhere.

Stephen15

political analyst wrote: »

I believe that many Irish rugby fans are angry that RTÉ lost the rights to coverage of the Six Nations and Rugby World Cup (RWC) tournaments because TV3 HD is not available on Saorview.

I believe that the number of people in the Republic who support the Irish rugby team is much bigger than the number of people who follow League of Ireland (LoI) or Champions League (CL) soccer.

Would RTÉ have held on to the rugby rights if it had dropped its LoI and CL rights and so let TV3, eir sport and Sky split the Republic rights to those soccer tournaments among themselves? I believe that it's absurd to keep LoI and CL rights at the expense of Six Nations and RWC.

While not an awful lot people watch LOI champions league is still probably more popular than rugby matches. Firstly its played in the evening on a midweek night while most people are in. Espeically next season when Liverpool, United and Celtic (perhaps) will be all be competing. One that does annoy about RTE is their lack of coverage given to Arsenal UCL games.

Dtp1979

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Am i reading this right?

RTE lost the six nations because of it's...league of Ireland coverage?

I don't know the figures but what RTE spends on LOI wouldn't get you a week's shopping in Aldi.

If anything, I'd say LOI pay RTE to cover matches

political analyst

Stephen15 wrote: »

While not an awful lot people watch LOI champions league is still probably more popular than rugby matches. Firstly its played in the evening on a midweek night while most people are in. Espeically next season when Liverpool, United and Celtic (perhaps) will be all be competing. One that does annoy about RTE is their lack of coverage given to Arsenal UCL games.

Do you not think that Six Nations and RWC are more relevant to Ireland than CL?

D2D

jeffk wrote: »

LOI coverage is a joke.

No point cherry picking the big matches, effect crowds at the gate and don't sub the club's for lost revenue. Even try picking big matches where the away crowd wouldn't be that big in the first place(like say Derry in Cork)

A better highlight show of both divisions is needed, even just goals in 1st division. Not the current effort at silly o clock Monday, Sunday evening might be better.

I'd love to see the LOI end up on sky, look at what they did with the GAA(OK better product to start, but sure sky could work their magic on LOI)

or just give exclusive coverage to Eir Sports instead of sharing with them? Eir's coverage of the league is excellent. Proper build up to a game (instead of the pitiful 5 minutes RTE gives), decent commentary and great analysis after games.

political analyst

D2D wrote: »

or just give exclusive coverage to Eir Sports instead of sharing with them? Eir's coverage of the league is excellent. Proper build up to a game (instead of the pitiful 5 minutes RTE gives), decent commentary and great analysis after games.

Exactly!

I was already aware that the rights are split between RTÉ and eir sports.

Atlantic Dawn

LOI is a basket case while JD the CEO of FAI takes in over 4 times what the winning team of LOI gets.

RTE could save shed loads of cash by not buying in big shows to give them a time slot of 1 or 2am just because Sky showed them first.

political analyst

political analyst wrote: »

I believe that many Irish rugby fans are angry that RTÉ lost the rights to coverage of the Six Nations and Rugby World Cup (RWC) tournaments because TV3 HD is not available on Saorview.

I'd revoke their PSB status and boot them off Saorview altogether over this. Alot of people that don't have Sky will resent having to watch in grotvision after being used to HD coverage.

Atlantic Dawn

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd revoke their PSB status and boot them off Saorview altogether over this. Alot of people that don't have Sky will resent having to watch in grotvision after being used to HD coverage.

There should be coverage of any shortfall in transmission fees paid for by the licence fee to put all channels in HD, the country is a bloody basket case in terms of technology.

johnnyryan89

political analyst wrote: »

Do you not think that Six Nations and RWC are more relevant to Ireland than CL?

Why don't you ask Ryle Nuggent whose the head of sport and had a massive hard on for rugby why they didn't fight hard enough for the rights of the six nations. I'm sure saorview have itv and bbc so people can still watch the Six Nations plus Champions League is a big plus for RTE as someone pointed out so they were never gonna drop it.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

I would have thought RTE's coverage of the Champions League pays for itself? They do a 4 hour show with a live game plus highlights and analysis, with plenty of advertisements within that.

As far as I know, each member country of UEFA gets to show the Champions League through a domestic distributor. So (thankfully) it has to be shown on Irish tv - RTE, TV3, TG4, and Sky are not allowed bid for it here to show exclusively. I'm not sure if Eir Sports can bid for the rights as a subscription service?

I know that with the Irish national team, only friendlies can be shown on not free tv. So they sell the rights to them so John Delaney can help fund his 400,000+ euro per year salary. :rolleyes:

political analyst

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I would have thought RTE's coverage of the Champions League pays for itself? They do a 4 hour show with a live game plus highlights and analysis, with plenty of advertisements within that.

As far as I know, each member country of UEFA gets to show the Champions League through a domestic distributor. So (thankfully) it has to be shown on Irish tv - RTE, TV3, TG4, and Sky are not allowed bid for it here to show exclusively. I'm not sure if Eir Sports can bid for the rights as a subscription service?

I know that with the Irish national team, only friendlies can be shown on not free tv. So they sell the rights to them so John Delaney can help fund his 400,000+ euro per year salary. :rolleyes:

BT Sports is a subscription service and it has beaten ITV for UK rights to CL.

Stephen15

political analyst wrote: »

Do you not think that Six Nations and RWC are more relevant to Ireland than CL?

So is an International fencing competition with Ireland competing dosent mean that its going to attract more viewers than the UCL. Look at the end of the day TV3 which is free to air so RTE has the soccer TV3 has the rugby everyone should be happy.

The Cush

The next question is, RTÉ has lost international rugby but will they keep international soccer?

The UEFA media rights tender for the next 2 qualifier cycles, Nations League and the 2020 European finals closed about a month ago, will they be able to retain the TV rights?

Will they lose the rights, could they share the rights with TV3?
The Nations League games will probably disappear behind the Sky or BT paywall as these games aren't designated.

icdg

I think the OP is basing his argument on a false premise that RTE, faced with limited resources, undertook an examination of what rights it could afford to bid for and prioritised football over rugby. I don't think that's true, at least the extent that the OP is painting the picture of. I think it's well known what the Head of Sports sport of choice is (not football).

But football rights are in many ways set up to be easier for RTE to obtain. Competitive internationals are protected for FTA by legislation. Up until recently UEFA was very anxious to have FTA partners in every market (but those days are now gone, I'm afraid, and we'll shortly, possibly in the next few days, learn who has secured the Irish rights for the 2018-21 period and I have a strong hunch it will be Eir Sport). As for the League of Ireland, does the OP really believe those rights cost very much or that RTE were involved in a bidding war?

RTE were outbid for the Six Nations by TV3, which is ultimately controlled by American billionaire John C Malone. Its a sad day but at least it will stay FTA, and unlike football, most rugby internationals are not protected for live FTA, so Sky or BT could have snapped it up. If you don't like TV3's coverage, BBC and ITV will also have it. RTE are obliged to consider what the interests of the licence fee payer including those who like other sports and none before writing a massive cheque for sports rights. It cannot go in with a blank cheque and say "we must retain rights at any cost", as Sky appears to do for the Premier League. Sky can and does increase the cost of subs. RTE is stuck with a government whose licence fee policy appears to be no change.

STB.

jeffk wrote: »

I'd love to see the LOI end up on sky, look at what they did with the GAA(OK better product to start, but sure sky could work their magic on LOI)

Jeff what did Sky do with the GAA ?

I presume you are trying to start some myth to comprehend the truth.

Sky themselves buried it on Sky Sports 5 where all the niche sports go to die. The audience figures are attrocious compared to when it was FTA. But Sky couldnt give a fiddlers as the reason they grabbed it was to hoodwink more Irish householders into subscription TV sports service as an overall package. Thats why they paid the money, it wasnt out of commitment to the sport.

Whn the head of the GAA, Páraic Duffy outlined his case for a competitive broadcast rights market ala a 5 year money deal, he went against the community and amateur ethos of the organisation. The fact that the sport is meant to be available to as many Irish people not just those who have the ability to pay large foreign subscription companies seems to have been forgotten. All from a so called non profit organisation that now thinks its a multinational itself.

Better product ? Different can of worms more like.

STB.

political analyst wrote: »

I believe that many Irish rugby fans are angry that RTÉ lost the rights to coverage of the Six Nations and Rugby World Cup (RWC) tournaments because TV3 HD is not available on Saorview.

I believe that the number of people in the Republic who support the Irish rugby team is much bigger than the number of people who follow League of Ireland (LoI) or Champions League (CL) soccer.

Would RTÉ have held on to the rugby rights if it had dropped its LoI and CL rights and so let TV3, eir sport and Sky split the Republic rights to those soccer tournaments among themselves? I believe that it's absurd to keep LoI and CL rights at the expense of Six Nations and RWC.

I havent seen the viewing figures for Champions League v International Rugby, but I presume that the latter is significantly stronger.

Are you assuming that the money spent on rights for both is equal ?

I presume that the timing of the deals might have an influence on what one can afford to enter into. There is also the unknown of what your competitor will target and how far they are willing to go to win the rights.

As ICDG pointed out, Ryle Nugent would have a strong influence as head of sport, I strongy suspect that the money is not there, even if Champions League was dropped.

Looking forward RTE are possibly seeing the scenario that they would be investing in a sport that they couldnt chase rights wise. Like it or not, and I dont like it, the 6 Nations will be on pay TV from 2022. That was guaranteed when it was dropped as a protected sport.

johnnyryan89

Dtp1979 wrote: »

If anything, I'd say LOI pay RTE to cover matches

LOI matches are thrown into the tv deal along with Ireland matches I think so instead of paying x amount for Ireland games and y amount to get the LOI games RTE just pay x amount for the whole bundle so I wouldn't be surprised to that the price would still be the same whether RTE only showed the Ireland games or both. Hopefully when the rights are up in November 2018 that Eir come in and take LOI games off RTE.

jeffk

STB. wrote: »

Jeff what did Sky do with the GAA ?

I presume you are trying to start some myth to comprehend the truth.

Sky themselves buried it on Sky Sports 5 where all the niche sports go to die. The audience figures are attrocious compared to when it was FTA. But Sky couldnt give a fiddlers as the reason they grabbed it was to hoodwink more Irish householders into subscription TV sports service as an overall package. Thats why they paid the money, it wasnt out of commitment to the sport.

Whn the head of the GAA, Páraic Duffy outlined his case for a competitive broadcast rights market ala a 5 year money deal, he went against the community and amateur ethos of the organisation. The fact that the sport is meant to be available to as many Irish people not just those who have the ability to pay large foreign subscription companies seems to have been forgotten. All from a so called non profit organisation that now thinks its a multinational itself.

Better product ? Different can of worms more like.

Put it onto a digital HD digital platform that almost everyone has, shined it up and sell it as a product, you can almost be guaranteed you’ll see it on Sky.
The LOI on RTE, oh next week think they’re showing one, little or no hype or advertisement an then shown at random stupid times. Plus, you won’t see 9 hours of LOI on a Sunday

IF people don’t want to watch it on Sky (mainly because sure didn’t we use to get it with an aerial) go the local GAA hall, have two or three pints and watch the match. The hall will make SOME money off the pints and/or food. Then you don’t have to pay for sky for the month.


Myth, you just reinforced the old GAA myths

Non-profit or amateur, go to your local GAA club and its better kitted out that most league of Ireland clubs. Maybe the LOI should go amateur and non-profit so we all can have club houses, all seater stadiums, an 80k stadium for concerts/odd cup final/big matches

jeffk

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

LOI matches are thrown into the tv deal along with Ireland matches I think so instead of paying x amount for Ireland games and y amount to get the LOI games RTE just pay x amount for the whole bundle so I wouldn't be surprised to that the price would still be the same whether RTE only showed the Ireland games or both. Hopefully when the rights are up in November 2018 that Eir come in and take LOI games off RTE.

As far as I know clubs dont get paid for matches, i was told Dundalk got paid nothing for the match last week.

Lose lose lose, match on TV, gates down, neutrals wont go, then people watch it, oh 3-0,wouldn't go and see that rubbish.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

icdg

That's not the case. League of Ireland matches are not part of the Republic Ireland contract at the moment, or at least, not for RTE. UEFA sells the rights to Euros and World Cup qualifiers and has done since 2014. The FAI now only sells the rights to home friendlies, and those rights are with Eir Sport. With the advent of the Nations League from 2018 on there'll be less of those dates.

icdg

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I think it's missing a comma. Effect becomes cause.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

political analyst

STB. wrote: »

I havent seen the viewing figures for Champions League v International Rugby, but I presume that the latter is significantly stronger.

Are you assuming that the money spent on rights for both is equal ?

I presume that the timing of the deals might have an influence on what one can afford to enter into. There is also the unknown of what your competitor will target and how far they are willing to go to win the rights.

As ICDG pointed out, Ryle Nugent would have a strong influence as head of sport, I strongy suspect that the money is not there, even if Champions League was dropped.

Looking forward RTE are possibly seeing the scenario that they would be investing in a sport that they couldnt chase rights wise. Like it or not, and I dont like it, the 6 Nations will be on pay TV from 2022. That was guaranteed when it was dropped as a protected sport.

Who dropped 6 Nations rugby as "protected"?

political analyst

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I can - TV3 saves money on transmission costs by keeping its bitrate as low as it legally can. Hence the complaints about "grotvision".

icdg

political analyst wrote: »

Who dropped 6 Nations rugby as "protected"?

There has been no change in the status of Six Nations rugby. It is protected but only insofar as a qualifying broadcaster may broadcast highlights. There is no live coverage protection. The relevant legislation is the Broadcasting (Major Events Television Coverage) Act 1999 (Designation of Major Events) Order 2003 (SI 99 of 2003).

Last year Denis Naughton announced he intended to add the ladies Gaelic football and camogie finals to the list but it appears he never did so. The consultation process also consulted on whether the Six Nations should be protected for live coverage but the Minister decided not to do so. Nonetheless this constituted a decision not to change the status, not a downgrade. In any event it appears the 2003 Order remains in force.

More Music

jeffk wrote: »

As far as I know clubs dont get paid for matches, i was told Dundalk got paid nothing for the match last week.

Lose lose lose, match on TV, gates down, neutrals wont go, then people watch it, oh 3-0,wouldn't go and see that rubbish.

That's hardly RTE's fault.

The FAI should take a long hard look at themselves.

The GAA fundarise massivley at local level and Croke Park HQ are well able to do big money deals. And of of course secure plenty of tax payers money also.

CeilingFly

You need to know that RTE are only permitted 6 minutes an hour advertising whereas TV3 can have 12minutes.

This gives tv3 a big advantage as rte must justify licence fee expenditure if costs are expected to be in excess of the commercial revenue of the programme

STB.

political analyst wrote: »

Who dropped 6 Nations rugby as "protected"?

More that Denis Naughton I gather didnt add it.

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/adrumm/six-nations-removed-irish-governments-list-free-air-sporting-events/

It remains only as deferred in Ireland, but the protection ultimately comes from what the BBC and ITV do in the UK.

STB.

jeffk wrote: »

Put it onto a digital HD digital platform that almost everyone has, shined it up and sell it as a product, you can almost be guaranteed you’ll see it on Sky.

A paywall is where everyone can see it ?

Shined it up ? What ?

HD ? RTE is HD.

The viewing figures on Sky are attrocious. A 90% decline.

jeffk wrote: »

IF people don’t want to watch it on Sky (mainly because sure didn’t we use to get it with an aerial) go the local GAA hall, have two or three pints and watch the match. The hall will make SOME money off the pints and/or food. Then you don’t have to pay for sky for the month.

People want to watch the games. Having to bring your kids to a pub to see it is not an answer. Casual viewers are part of the all inclusive history of the national sport. That is against the ethos of the GAA.

jeffk wrote: »

Myth, you just reinforced the old GAA myths

I suggest you read up on what you are commenting on Jeff. You sound like you are reading from a Sky propaganda handbook.

There very much is something to see here.

http://www.historyhub.ie/sports-rights-commercialization-revisited-sky-and-the-gaa

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

As a casual GAA fan I was disappointed that they put some of their games behind a paywall whilst not paying any of that money to the players who actually produce the 'product'. Basically, it's just bad form.

Also, the statement in the OP about soccer being prioritised over rugby is not really true if you look at how RTE treat soccer. They have the odd League of Ireland game on every 2 or 3 weeks, I would say less than 20 in a whole season. They show the Irish national team by default, they don't have the friendlies, and they have the Champions League by default as well, up to this point in time anyway. A bit like how they have the rights to broadcast the EuroVision Song Contest by default.

Stephen15

I personally believe that RTE is one of those state organisations that could and probably should be privatised. More and more are going to mobile devices to watch television and even if they made it so they couldn't charge more than tv license fee it would make sense. I think its riddiculous having to pay for a tv license when RTE show ads anyway.

political analyst

Stephen15 wrote: »

I personally believe that RTE is one of those state organisations that could and probably should be privatised. More and more are going to mobile devices to watch television and even if they made it so they couldn't charge more than tv license fee it would make sense. I think its riddiculous having to pay for a tv license when RTE show ads anyway.

The population of the Republic isn't big enough for RTÉ to function on the licence fee alone.

lertsnim

RTÉ is far from being the only broadcaster that has ads and revenue from licence/taxation.