Neighbour violated planning laws

Stuyvesant_1

Hello, my neighbour is in serious breach of planning laws to point of impacting my house and peace. I have checked they do not have any planning permission for work completed. On the Fingal website I download form to report them however it ask for my name and address details and state they cannot guarantee I stay anonymous for example if issue go to court. My question is there good chance of them finding out who report? They are not reasonable people and would threaten my family if finding out we report. Thank you.

CeilingFly

Ring the planning enforcement manager and talk to them. They can make a visit and commence their own action.

Sleeper12

Don't forget that they don't need planning permission for all rear extensions. If it's kept within certain size it's exempt.

What do you believe that they have done wrong?

Calahonda52

CeilingFly wrote: »

Ring the planning enforcement manager and talk to them. They can make a visit and commence their own action.

They wont act on a verbal complaint.
Yes there is a risk of them hearing about it if written

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Don't forget that they don't need planning permission for all rear extensions. If it's kept within certain size it's exempt.

What do you believe that they have done wrong?

Good advice here so lets start with that.

Stuyvesant_1

Hello I do not wish to say much about nature of violation as I fear to be identified.
I just question about protecting my identity in report of violation.
I will telephone planning enforcement manager as suggested thank you.

Calahonda52

Stuyvesant_1 wrote: »

Hello I do not wish to say much about nature of violation as I fear to be identified.
I just question about protecting my identity in report of violation.
I will telephone planning enforcement manager as suggested thank you.

They will not act on a verbal complaint, so if you call them you lose complete control of the process as you don't know what they will do with the details in your call.

As for this
I do not wish to say much about nature of violation as I fear to be identified
you think your neighbour is snooping here?

wistfuleyes

If their extension is less than 40 sq metres and is only ground floor, then they mightn't need planning permission. You can report it to planning. Just make up a fake name and report it in writing to the local authority. They will have to, by law, investigate. If there's something wrong with your neighbours planning, then the planning authority will issue enforcement proceedings. You won't be a part of it. They'll be taking cases forward. Not you. Just use a fake name.

Free-2-Flow

Stuyvesant_1 wrote:

Hello I do not wish to say much about nature of violation as I fear to be identified. I just question about protecting my identity in report of violation. I will telephone planning enforcement manager as suggested thank you.

I'm a Carpenter that has been building extensions a long time so I am familiar with planning regs, what do you believe the violation to be?

Free-2-Flow

40sq meters yes, as long as 15 per cent of the garden area remains, also has to be a hip roof and not a apex not measuring more than 4m high at the highest point

Cracker86

Do they own the property? Regardless of the size of the extension if they are council tenants they would need permission

Gumbo

Stuyvesant_1 wrote: »

Hello I do not wish to say much about nature of violation as I fear to be identified.
I just question about protecting my identity in report of violation.
I will telephone planning enforcement manager as suggested thank you.

Plan Enf will not act on a verbal complaint. It has to be in writing, letter, email or even by fax. It has to include the complainants name and address, the address of the aleged breach and as much info as the complainant can give.

Without this, the section will not act.

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

40sq meters yes, as long as 15 per cent of the garden area remains, also has to be a hip roof and not a apex not measuring more than 4m high at the highest point

You might be mixing up our planning regs with those of another country.
40 Sq. M at ground floor. 25 Sq. M of garden space remaining. No height limit as such, you can go up to the eaves of the roof. No restriction on roof type and the heights you speak of are for garden rooms/sheds.

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

I'm a Carpenter that has been building extensions a long time so I am familiar with planning regs, what do you believe the violation to be?

I fear you may have been giving ill advice to those clients over the years.

Free-2-Flow

kceire wrote:

You might be mixing up our planning regs with those of another country. 40 Sq. M at ground floor. 25 Sq. M of garden space remaining. No height limit as such, you can go up to the eaves of the roof. No restriction on roof type and the heights you speak of are for garden rooms/sheds.

There is restriction on roof types, well I hope there is, Because we had to take down an Apex in Terenure and replace with a Hip roof after the Planning inspector said it was in breech of planning laws.

Free-2-Flow

kceire wrote:

You might be mixing up our planning regs with those of another country. 40 Sq. M at ground floor. 25 Sq. M of garden space remaining. No height limit as such, you can go up to the eaves of the roof. No restriction on roof type and the heights you speak of are for garden rooms/sheds.

Every local planning authority have a different set of specs for their areas, might be legal to do in one county may be illegal in another.

For example: In South Dublin you can put a Temp structure in place, ie, 40ft container, go a few minutes up the road to Wicklow and you need planning permission

moleyv

Free-2-Flow wrote:

Every local planning authority have a different set of specs for their areas, might be legal to do in one county may be illegal in another.

Free-2-Flow wrote:

For example: In South Dublin you can put a Temp structure in place, ie, 40ft container, go a few minutes up the road to Wicklow and you need planning permission

Nobody listen to this person's advice.

Free-2-Flow

Ahahahahahahahah, I have a 40ft dropped on the border of South Dublin and Wicklow, already went through all this with the Authorites.

Gumbo

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

There is restriction on roof types, well I hope there is, Because we had to take down an Apex in Terenure and replace with a Hip roof after the Planning inspector said it was in breech of planning laws.

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

Every local planning authority have a different set of specs for their areas, might be legal to do in one county may be illegal in another.

For example: In South Dublin you can put a Temp structure in place, ie, 40ft container, go a few minutes up the road to Wicklow and you need planning permission

Sorry, you are mistaking, quite a lot.

Terenure - what planning inspector? Planning enforcement? Was it a protected structure?

Every county council operate under the planning and development act 200 as amended. There are no separate planning laws county to,county or city to city.

A 40 foot container would require planning in every LA out there. South Dublin are no different. Unless it's part of site works, temp site works, or ancillary to another development.

You really need to engage a planning consultant on your future jobs to avoid the risk of legal action against you in the future.

sydthebeat

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

Every local planning authority have a different set of specs for their areas, might be legal to do in one county may be illegal in another.

For example: In South Dublin you can put a Temp structure in place, ie, 40ft container, go a few minutes up the road to Wicklow and you need planning permission

pub talk

Free-2-Flow

sydthebeat wrote:

pub talk

Yawn

Gumbo

sydthebeat wrote: »

pub talk

Troll talk

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

Yawn

Proof

Free-2-Flow

We built a single story extention in Terenure a number of years ago, Next door neighbour complained,

Planning inspector came out, he said Everything is fine except for the Apex at the back, it has to come down and you will have to put a hip roof in, so we Did, not sure about the grounds for complaint, Is lack of Sunlight a suitable complaint?

40 ft Containers.
We have a sporting club in South Dublin county on the border with Wicklow.
We have 3 40ft containers on the land, We asked the Planning authorities and they said we don't need planning permission buy if you cross into Wicklow you will.

This is what we were told by the Authorities, Some people seem to think I'm making this up.

Free-2-Flow

kceire wrote:

You really need to engage a planning consultant on your future jobs to avoid the risk of legal action against you in the future.

99 percent of the Time three Job will have an Architect

sydthebeat

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

Yawn

what you say has no basis in planning law.

so where else did you hear it??

youve made 3 mistakes already re planning law

1. 15% of rear garden space doesnt come into anything
2. no 40ft container is ever exempt from permission unless under temporary site works
3. every 'planning area' DOES NOT have a "different set of specs".. they are all bound by national legislation which are the planning laws.


its very worrying that you say youve been building extension for a long time and are so wrong in regards to extensions.

sydthebeat

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

We have 3 40ft containers on the land, We asked the Planning authorities and they said we don't need planning permission.

they gave you this advice on headed paper signed by a planner yeah ???

if they did, frame it, becuase its gold dust.

sounds more like they are turning a blind eye to it...

Free-2-Flow

sydthebeat wrote:

1. 15% of rear garden space doesnt come into anything 2. no 40ft container is ever exempt from permission unless under temporary site works 3. every 'planning area' DOES NOT have a "different set of specs".. they are all bound by national legislation which are the planning laws.

Ok I made a mistake on the 15 percent, it's 25 sq. As for local Authorities? There are certain zones within areas that require different approaches from the Authorities. And I don't go the pub much..

Free-2-Flow

sydthebeat wrote:

sounds more like they are turning a blind eye to it...

Blind eye or not, that's what we were told and now the containers are there 8 years and are visible from the road

sydthebeat

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

There are certain zones within areas that require different approaches from the Authorities. .

not when it comes to exempted development
there are all encompassing national rules... doesnt depend on zoning at all.

theres some free info for ya

Gumbo

I see this a local gun club?
What is the use of the containers?

Gumbo

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

There are certain zones within areas that require different approaches from the Authorities. And I don't go the pub much..

This is pub talk. Not true at all. Exempted limits are in national law not local.

Free-2-Flow

sydthebeat wrote:

theres some free info for ya

Thanks, I'll bring it to the pub.

Gumbo

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

We built a single story extention in Terenure a number of years ago, Next door neighbour complained,

Planning inspector came out, he said Everything is fine except for the Apex at the back, it has to come down and you will have to put a hip roof in, so we Did, not sure about the grounds for complaint, Is lack of Sunlight a suitable complaint?
.

No, it's not a valid reason to complain to the enforcement section. If you want to PM me the address I'll tell you exactly why you had to change it. It sounds fishy to me. Did you get the name of the planning enforcement officer and ID to prove he was from DCC?

Free-2-Flow

kceire wrote:

No, it's not a valid reason to complain to the enforcement section. If you want to PM me the address I'll tell you exactly why you had to change it. It sounds fishy to me. Did you get the name of the planning enforcement officer and ID to prove he was from DCC?

He was of course, This didn't happen over a day or 2, This went on for weeks with numerous visits to site, I know his name but I don't want to open a can of worms here, what's done is done.
It was about 8 years ago.

Gumbo

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

He was of course, This didn't happen over a day or 2, This went on for weeks with numerous visits to site, I know his name but I don't want to open a can of worms here, what's done is done.
It was about 8 years ago.

Yeah that's fair enough but it sounds like somebody somewhere made a mistake.

Poor Uncle Tom

Stuyvesant_1 wrote: »

Hello, my neighbour is in serious breach of planning laws..........They are not reasonable people and would threaten my family if finding out we report.

You can always use an Agent to submit your complaint, but if it goes to court the likelyhood is that you will have to come forward. If the neighbours threaten you or your family, report them immediately to the Gardai.

wistfuleyes wrote: »

You can report it to planning. Just make up a fake name and report it in writing to the local authority. They will have to, by law, investigate. If there's something wrong with your neighbours planning, then the planning authority will issue enforcement proceedings. You won't be a part of it. They'll be taking cases forward. Not you. Just use a fake name.

Terrible advice, most LA's are used to this now and send a registered acknowledgement to the complainant, if it comes back unknown or undelivered, the complaint is usually binned as being a nuisance.

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

We built a single story extention in Terenure a number of years ago, Next door neighbour complained,

Planning inspector came out, he said Everything is fine except for the Apex at the back, it has to come down and you will have to put a hip roof in, so we Did,.

Under Class 1, 4(a), if the house you are extending does not include a rear facing gable then the wall height of any extension cannot exceed the existing eaves height...(no gable)

4. (a) Where the rear wall of the house
does not include a gable, the height of
the walls of any such extension shall
not exceed the height of the rear wall of
the house.

Free-2-Flow

Poor Uncle Tom wrote:

Under Class 1, 4(a), if the house you are extending does not include a rear facing gable then the wall height of any extension cannot exceed the existing eaves height...(no gable)

Ah ha, now I understand, so the house had a hip roof all around and we added a gable, which would extend the wall height.

Poor Uncle Tom

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

Ah ha, now I understand, so the house had a hip roof all around and we added a gable, which would extend the wall height.

Yeah, wouldn't it have been cheaper and easier to get retention for it rather than change the roof to make it exempt?

Gumbo

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

Ah ha, now I understand, so the house had a hip roof all around and we added a gable, which would extend the wall height.

Even with the hipped roof, you can still go to the eaves height or rain water gutter height as most people know it by so that would not have affected you at single storey??

Maybe explanations are not coming across clear in what you actually done?

You can put any roof type on the exempted extension, hopped, gable, flat, mono pitch etc

1874

It would seem more reasonable that a complainants name is garaunteed to remain anonymous. The council can then decide if the development is within the limits of the planning law and take it from there. How does not maintaining anonynimity help anything other than reduce the workload of the council? it brings on the serious concern of retaliation.
Only recently on FB (which I rarely use) I came across a post where someone who was annoyed that a neighbour had made complaints that they had put a log cabin in their backgarden for their own grown child, partner and baby, the responses were harsh and took no account of the complainants view, it was easy to see how retaliation could come from that. It seems to make a mockery of planning laws and how unallowed development affects others if complainants cant be sure they wont be retaliated against.

It means, anyone can build what they like, and if you dont like it, move or if you make a complaint, you'll wish you could. If you cannot afford to move, what? tough $hit?

Poor Uncle Tom

1874 wrote: »

It would seem more reasonable that a complainants name is garaunteed to remain anonymous. The council can then decide if the development is within the limits of the planning law and take it from there. How does not maintaining anonynimity help anything other than reduce the workload of the council? it brings on the serious concern of retaliation.
Only recently on FB (which I rarely use) I came across a post where someone who was annoyed that a neighbour had made complaints that they had put a log cabin in their backgarden for their own grown child, partner and baby, the responses were harsh and took no account of the complainants view, it was easy to see how retaliation could come from that. It seems to make a mockery of planning laws and how unallowed development affects others if complainants cant be sure they wont be retaliated against.

It means, anyone can build what they like, and if you dont like it, move or if you make a complaint, you'll wish you could. If you cannot afford to move, what? tough $hit?

Using social media to rant about rants on social media....:rolleyes::p

The complaints system was being abused by lots and lots of people with agendas from jealousy to dislike of building contractors making anonymous complaints. Perhaps ones time would be better spent sending an email to local TD's to lobby for change in the legislation.

1874

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Using social media to rant about rants on social media....:rolleyes::p

The complaints system was being abused by lots and lots of people with agendas from jealousy to dislike of building contractors making anonymous complaints. Perhaps ones time would be better spent sending an email to local TD's to lobby for change in the legislation.

Im not making a complaint?? Nor am I ranting??
I'm citing an example which I saw recently, were some of the comments were bordering on suggesting the person who started the post, make threats.

I dont see how the complaint system could be abused if the complaint was in fact genuine, how does jealousy make a complaint??? why should peoples safety from retaliation (which is likely) be affected, by anecdotal examples of abuse.
You rather a politician with a national remit waste time dealing with this than have the council deal with it?
One person lobbying to change legislation isn't likely to help their situation, its the processes of making the complaint thats the issue, if some was making a complaint, they could be emailed information to see if they can assess if they would proceed with a complaint? If they are genuine then they will have no issue putting their name and address knowing the council will keep it confidential. A nominal admin fee could be applied to process a complaint, if its genuine, someone will pay it.
It would be an easy way of ensuring the planning laws are adhered to.

Free-2-Flow

kceire wrote:

Maybe explanations are not coming across clear in what you actually done?

It was a Bungalow

Poor Uncle Tom

1874 wrote: »

Im not making a complaint?? Nor am I ranting??
I'm citing an example which I saw recently, were some of the comments were bordering on suggesting the person who started the post, make threats.

I dont see how the complaint system could be abused if the complaint was in fact genuine, how does jealousy make a complaint??? why should peoples safety from retaliation (which is likely) be affected, by anecdotal examples of abuse.
You rather a politician with a national remit waste time dealing with this than have the council deal with it?
One person lobbying to change legislation isn't likely to help their situation, its the processes of making the complaint thats the issue,

You're missing my point.

1874 wrote: »

if some was making a complaint, they could be emailed information to see if they can assess if they would proceed with a complaint? If they are genuine then they will have no issue putting their name and address knowing the council will keep it confidential. A nominal admin fee could be applied to process a complaint, if its genuine, someone will pay it.
It would be an easy way of ensuring the planning laws are adhered to.

Makes sense, but this can't happen under current legislation, which would have to change, which would need to be done by said politicians.... hence the suggestion of lobbying them, it is their remit after all....

Gumbo

1874 wrote: »

It would seem more reasonable that a complainants name is garaunteed to remain anonymous. The council can then decide if the development is within the limits of the planning law and take it from there. How does not maintaining anonynimity help anything other than reduce the workload of the council? it brings on the serious concern of retaliation.
Only recently on FB (which I rarely use) I came across a post where someone who was annoyed that a neighbour had made complaints that they had put a log cabin in their backgarden for their own grown child, partner and baby, the responses were harsh and took no account of the complainants view, it was easy to see how retaliation could come from that. It seems to make a mockery of planning laws and how unallowed development affects others if complainants cant be sure they wont be retaliated against.

It means, anyone can build what they like, and if you dont like it, move or if you make a complaint, you'll wish you could. If you cannot afford to move, what? tough $hit?

But in that particular case the neighbour objected to the retention permission. Their name goes on public record as objectors and they knew that when they lodged their €20 and objections. Their was no hiding the fact that they were not happy.

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

It was a Bungalow

That changes everything. The council were right to tell you to change by the sounds of it.

Gumbo

It's also worth noting that any Plan Enf case that gets to court in DCC area, the complainants are rarely mentioned. Hence why the council have to do their own investigation and gather their own evidence.

Stuyvesant_1

kceire wrote: »

It's also worth noting that any Plan Enf case that gets to court in DCC area, the complainants are rarely mentioned. Hence why the council have to do their own investigation and gather their own evidence.

Thank you that is reassuring to know. Although this complaint I am sending is Fingal council area.

Mooooo

Of building something that does not need planning permission do you have to get anything to say it is exempt or can you just drive on?

Gumbo

Mooooo wrote: »

Of building something that does not need planning permission do you have to get anything to say it is exempt or can you just drive on?

If you are comfortable, then technically you can fire away.
But, when it comes to selling or remortgaging you will need the certificates of exemption.

Angry bird

It is Council policy not to reveal the names of complainants, however this could come out through legal proceedings. The first thing any Council does with such a complaint is to confirm it's validity. After that the Council runs with it with the result being one of:
_ exempt from planning, close case or statute of limitations applies with unauthorised works in place 7 years or more therefore enforcement proceedings cannot continue, close case;
_ needs planning and a retention application is lodged and subsequently granted with or without modifications;
_ unauthorised works removed voluntarily;
_ or the recent example in Meath with retention planning not granted and court order to demolish.