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What offence would this be?

  • 01-06-2017 5:40pm
    #1
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭


    Postman forges a recipients signature on registered mail. Would that be an offence under the Post Office Act or other, and if so what?


Comments

  • #2
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,773 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Forgery.


  • #3
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,577 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    There is also some form of 'interfering with the post' offence, if the post wasn't actually delivered.


  • #4
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,638 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    Forgery.

    Does that not require an intent to defraud?


  • #5
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,577 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Does that not require an intent to defraud?
    The person sending the package will have been defrauded if they don't get a valid signature (and there is a dispute). That the postman won't necessarily have made a substantial gain is another matter.


  • #6
    Really Interested
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Really Interested


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Does that not require an intent to defraud?

    No.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/section/25/enacted/en/html#sec25

    "accept it as genuine and, by reason of so accepting it, to do some act, or to make some omission, to the prejudice of that person or any other person."

    The question is does it in effect make a false instrument.

    "A person is guilty of forgery if he or she makes a false instrument with the intention that it shall be used to induce another person to accept it as genuine"


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  • #7
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,216 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Sign for penalty points did he :)


  • #8
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,638 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Really Interested wrote: »
    No.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/section/25/enacted/en/html#sec25

    "accept it as genuine and, by reason of so accepting it, to do some act, or to make some omission, to the prejudice of that person or any other person."

    The question is does it in effect make a false instrument.

    "A person is guilty of forgery if he or she makes a false instrument with the intention that it shall be used to induce another person to accept it as genuine"

    , to the prejudice of that person or any other person.

    if the recipient receives the parcel then who has been prejudiced?


  • #9
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,577 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    if the recipient receives the parcel then who has been prejudiced?
    The sender.


  • #10
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,638 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Victor wrote: »
    The sender.


    how so? the recipient has received their parcel.


  • #11
    Really Interested
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Really Interested


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    if the recipient receives the parcel then who has been prejudiced?

    That would be fact dependant, if no prejudice no offence.


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  • #12
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,577 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    how so? the recipient has received their parcel.
    The recipient might deny receiving it.


  • #13
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,638 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Victor wrote: »
    The recipient might deny receiving it.


    they might. but if they dont has an offence been committed?


  • #14
    Really Interested
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Really Interested


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1908/act/48/enacted/en/print

    Section 57 was repealed in 2011

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/act/21/enacted/en/html

    I assume regulations made under the 2011 act deals with such a matter as set out by the OP.


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