Wetsuit shoulder flexibility / restriction

woody1

doing a little bit of o/w swimming again lately and something ive noticed is that my arms are getting very tired very quickly..

didnt swim in the wetsuit really at all last year .. and i probably did notice it the year before but put it down to just not being a great swimmer
but ive 2 years of pool swimming done since then and have improved a lot in terms of speed in the pool but im getting left for dead by people of the same standard in the open water ..

there are some anxiety / comfort in open water issues but wasnt an issue last night as was in a lake that was max 4-5 feet deep and water was absolutely flat .. arms were wrecked after 100m of a 750 loop and still sore on the way home... doesnt help if you are a bit nervous that your thinking about having tired arms so early into a swim..

suit i have is a zone 3 advance .. not blaming the suit..i picked the more budget end suit thinking there was no need for someone of my level to shell out a lot on a higher end one .. just wondering would a suit with more flexible shoulders make a difference or is the issue with my technique or getting the suit on or ?

i wouldnt have gone for a more expensive suit with better flexibility at the time as i would have thought it was a waste for a slower swimmer to spend on an expensive suit .. but im coming round to it now.. albeit it probably wont be this year ..

has anyone any recomendations on suits with better shoulder flexibility or any thoughts ..

Kurt.Godel

There are better suits that offer greater flexibility around the shoulders, but the first thing might be to check how you are putting on the wetsuit... I used to think I was thorough in this regard until I saw a good swimmer take over ten minutes putting on his suit. Basically he put it on to the waist, then stripped it back to the knees and pulled up on the inside a few cm's, repeated this for the thighs, then pulling up along the torso, and then inching the arms in a similar manner. The idea being at the end you have pulled up extra material around your shoulders, so they have less restriction. Worth trying before you spend big bucks!

...but when you do spend big bucks I can recommend the ZeroD suits, they have thinner material around the shoulders and so less restriction. I guess after that you could try a shoulderless suit (something I really must try myself!)

woody1

ive just bought a set of wheels for the bike so i wont be buying anything else this year !
its just as well the wheels were bought before last nights swim..

it was put on in a hurry last night so im trying not to judge on that alone..

wife has a top end rocket science one and i can feel the difference in the rubber thickness / quality / flexibility..

RacoonQueen

Since we're on the subject of wetsuits...was just asking about this tonight.

In the market for a new one and should really get one sooner rather than later as I want to get a couple of races done before IM. One I have is far, far too big...

Anywhere else other than base2race / cyclesuperstore that do fittings? Selection is fairly limited in both...and 300 yoyo the cheapest in Base2Race probably a bit more than I'd like to spend.

dory

Kurt.Godel wrote: »

...but when you do spend big bucks I can recommend the ZeroD suits, they have thinner material around the shoulders and so less restriction. I guess after that you could try a shoulderless suit (something I really must try myself!)

Does anyone know are there any rules about wearing shoulderless in competitions? I'm doing a half IM soon and would like to use shoulderless but some have said they may not be allowed, but I can't find it in the rules.

Kurt.Godel

dory wrote: »

Does anyone know are there any rules about wearing shoulderless in competitions? I'm doing a half IM soon and would like to use shoulderless but some have said they may not be allowed, but I can't find it in the rules.

...there are no restrictions in wearing shoulderless suits in Tri races.

(double meaning in respect of your username )

peter kern

dory wrote: »

Does anyone know are there any rules about wearing shoulderless in competitions? I'm doing a half IM soon and would like to use shoulderless but some have said they may not be allowed, but I can't find it in the rules.

for 95 out of 100 people a sleaveless suit is sower.
lets more water in
at the same time its a cheap way to get a cheap flexible wetsuit .
not much recommended for ireland though....


anyway the interesting thing what we see with many good female swimmer even top level suits they dont like much.
but in dory s case its most likely that she dosnt swim in the right wetsuit as her suit tends to suit more narrower ex runner arms than ex swimmer arms.


at the same time what many people forget you need to train in a wetsuit to get used to it .... fit and cut of suit is important , how you put it in is very very important , the inner liner of a wetuist is important ,the neoprene and its thickness is somewhat important . but you also need to train in a wetsuit.
and there is also a difference what confi and whats fast , and adaption is a factor .

unitl now i know only one person thats faster in a slevless tri suit and thats an athlete that hardly get arms out of water when swimming in the pool.

Kurt.Godel

peter kern wrote: »

unitl now i know only one person thats faster in a slevless tri suit and thats an athlete that hardly get arms out of water when swimming in the pool.

You'd have much more experience than I Peter, but I can't understand why this would be true. Take an analogy of a kayak- I can see why coating the base in neoprene would help (streamline), but coating the paddles in neoprene should increase the effort required to pull.

I really need to put this theory to the test! Anyone selling a secondhand MediumTall sleeveless?

woody1

one going on done deal !

joey100

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/The_Slowtwitch_Wetsuit_Guide_5085.html

Remember reading this on slowtwitch before. Doesn't look like much science behind it but makes the point that if you look at pretty much any ironman race, ITU race or top level race, you don't see the top pro's swimming in sleeveless suits. Some of these come from pure swim backgrounds (Lucy Charles in Lanzarote is a good example, former pro 10km swimmer) and all wear full arm suits. He does make the point though that a good fitting long john style suit will be faster than a badly fitted armed suit.

I'd guess that it's more the tightness of a wetsuit that makes us feel more restricted. For the majority of well fitting wetsuits I think it's a perception thing, we will really tight in it on the land, it's tighter than what we would normally wear (swimming and in general) and we begin to believe that it's restricting our stroke. I don't think I've ever found it very restrictive across a few different suits I've worn (blue seventy sprint, 2XU, blue seventy axis and now a Zerod), I wouldn't have very wide shoulders though so the suit never feels very stretched across my chest. But it is all about fit, take all the slack out of the legs and torso and get it up to the shoulders, I can tell the difference from when I've put the suit on wrong to when I've taken my time.

Edited to add, and what Peter said. Practice in your wetsuit. More time you spend in it the more comfortable you get, the more used to it you get and the more confident you get in open water.

Kurt.Godel

Good article joey, and it mentions something useful to whales like myself-

The main justification for buying a longjohn, besides price, is if you overheat easily and you're going to be in a borderline wetsuit-illegal swim, and you'll be in the water for a long time

The worst swim I ever had was in a Sprint in lake Geneva, overheated in the suit despite limited time in the water- less likely to happen in Ireland, granted! I'd say a sleeveless suit would be better on those with a typical skins OW build (a very different build to those at the pointy end of a tri field).

peter kern

skin is slow and even slower in the water .
https://www.google.ie/search?q=IAN+THORPE+FULL+SLEEVE+SUIT&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&imgil=hpyS6ekxhxp7XM%253A%253BQ2LLw23Ie1KfOM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fforums.usms.org%25252Fshowthread.php%25253F21361-tech-suits-and-Ian-Thorpe&source=iu&pf=m&fir=hpyS6ekxhxp7XM%253A%252CQ2LLw23Ie1KfOM%252C_&usg=__i7j-8O0dy654uKgkzBoN0-sbDuM%3D&biw=1433&bih=798&ved=0ahUKEwji87b3oprUAhVlDcAKHRByA2kQyjcIOA&ei=0MkuWeLLDuWagAaQ5I3IBg

also sleavelees lets more water in even if your suit lests water in at push of the wall in a pool that can be 1-2 sec over 100 meter.
and if i do wetsit 3.8 tts in pool i do let water in after 1500m .
for me the turning point is aobut 26 degree for somebody like you it can easily be 22 and maybe even 21

you are toally right when you start to overheat its better to lose those 1-2 sec as overheating costs a good bit more .
at the same time extremly few females overheat .

but in those rare occsions this will happen you could use other measurments ie bring ice to the race start and put in wetsuit
for 750 that should be enough for you for an IM not )
and when you swim open the neck a few times to let fresh water in.

joey100

@Woody, are you doing a warm up at all in the open water? You say your arms are tired 100m into a 750m swim but I wonder if you have done a warm up before this. Most of pool work is broken down and a warm up would be done before the main set. When I haven't warmed up properly (pool or open water) I can definitely feel tightness across the shoulders and chest, eases off as the session goes on though.

woody1

yeah we did about 400m very easy , then 4 sprints , then the 750.. not just based on last monday.. its something ive noticed before.. maybe not to the same degree..

other considerations... was doing a fair bit of physical work last week , when your main job is pushing a mouse round a desk then that can make a difference too

personally im hoping that getting it on right and doing a bit more training in it,will make a difference .. few people in the club would be same build as me so i could try a few other suits out as well...

Green&Red

It sounds funny but you could try and put it on different ways. I find if I yank it up too much from the legs/waist i go slower than if I just step in and do the pulling from the arms and shoulders. I seem to let more water in from the first way