Dealing with the hate & anger

LegacyUser

To give a brief background, myself and my daughter's mum broke up after a short relationship before she gave birth. Since then we've had an on-off (mostly off) relationship.

I've had feelings for her for a long time, and the last time we were physically intimate I told her I loved her, for the first time. She didn't respond. I didn't put any pressure on her whatsoever, until one day, a few months ago, I realised it was a whole year since that evening and since then she had given zero indication either way how she felt.

I told her that I needed to know what she wanted. She said that she wanted things to work out, but she didn't see how they could because I don't earn enough money and for her that was the bottomline, i.e the dealbreaker. For context I am running a growing business and employ 4 people. I work hard and while I'm not earning a lot it's getting there. Furthermore she's about to start a well paid job.

After I got over the initial shock, feelings of anger and resentment have overcome me. I think it's utterly selfish to prioritise a high salary over everything else. I have always been there, I'm a great father, I have my daughter half the week and because I'm self-employed I can pick and choose my own hours to suit hers. I'm not saying I'm perfect, and if she had've said that she just didn't feel the same way, I would have been heartbroken but I couldn't have held it against her of course and I would have gotten over it. But for her it came down to money.

Since then I can't make eye contact with her, I don't want to speak to her, I don't want anything to do with her. When my daughter is with me and crying for her mum, I hate her for her selfishness knowing that that's my daughter's life forever now. We had talked about having another baby even, and when my daughter is sad that she has no brother or sister, when she's bored playing by herself it breaks my heart.

Part of me hoped she'd get a wakeup call and fix things, but there's been nothing. I haven't argued, I haven't shouted, I've just backed off and told her I want nothing to do with her. All she's said "Please try and be polite at the door" and "I don't know why you despise me.". She's never asked why. She's never asked can we talk to make things amicable, nothing.

I think I'm always going to hate her, and I need to know how to deal with it. My daughter is still too young to realise what's going on but she's going to pick up on the vibe soon enough. I am not going to just be nice, I can't, I'd have no respect for myself if I just let it go and let her think everything was fine. I was thinking of texting her one day something like "From now on I'm going to pretend to not hate you." it's a bit ****ing petty but it's all I have right now.

Thanks for reading.

LLMMLL

The relationship seems to be going nowhere. If you didn't have a child together I would advise to cut all contact.

I'm not sure if having a child together means you should put in any effort. It seems from your description there is no relationship to save.

Of course, having a child together means you can't cut her off and it will be harder to get over her. Maybe some counselling will help?

Either way you need to accept that there is no romantic relationship there. You've no chance.of moving on until that happens.

batmanrobin

Acceptance will help you get over it.

Her not telling you she loves you, giving no indication for over a year is her answer. She does not want you. I would wager that the money is just an excuse. If you did have enough, then it would have been some other reason.

For the sake if your daughter, THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN THIS SITUATION, you need to get over your ego, get over your hurt, get over your anger, and make peace with the way things are. You say your daughter is young, but you'd be a fool if you think she isn't picking up on your feelings, the tension, and everything else. Children are sponges and they take it all in. So you need to slap a smile on your face when you're around your ex, be polite, and remember that your child counts more than any of it.

You just need to accept the way things are. Hard to do, but not impossible.

tara73

Karton wrote: »

To give a brief background, myself and my daughter's mum broke up after a short relationship before she gave birth. Since then we've had an on-off (mostly off) relationship.

see, you obviously never had a really loving, stable relationship with this woman. you were together for a short time, she got pregnant, and shortly after she gave birth she broke up with you.
what were her reasons then? also that you don't earn enough? it's kind of strange.

As poster above said, I think you need to try to cut off emotionally from this woman, as you are far, far more invested in this than she is. I know it's easier said than done, but that's how it can only work.
She already hinted there in telling you 'just be polite at the door'. That's all she wants and that's actually true, it would be the best for your daughter.

Maybe try to focus just on your daughter for now, and not on your hate towards the mother. See the positive things, you can be so, so happy the mother is not withholding your daughter from you or obviously is not badmouthing you in front of her.
Have a read through some other threads here, there are so many examples of fathers suffering because they fear break ups and losing their kids over it/never seeing their kids again.

daisybelle2008

Karton wrote: »

I am not going to just be nice, I can't, I'd have no respect for myself if I just let it go and let her think everything was fine. I was thinking of texting her one day something like "From now on I'm going to pretend to not hate you." it's a bit ****ing petty but it's all I have right now.

Thanks for reading.

You don't hate her, you hate that she doesn't want to be with you. Deal with how you are handling that instead of going to war with her. The bad vibe is coming from you, she seems to want to be civil with you for the sake of your daughter.
Punishing her and using your daughter as an excuse is petty. Don't be that guy.
counselling as the other person recommended, at the very least talk to someone fair minded and objective to help you work through your feelings and get some perspective. The rejection is very raw for you now and that's understandable.

karton

Thanks for the replies. I feel my OP is being picked up a little incorrectly so to give more context, we had been very close throughout the past few years. We had serious talks about the future, about having more children, houses etc. We told each other that we were each others' best friend. I was supporting her and our daughter, giving €1,000 a month towards food/creche etc as well as having her a lot of the time.

I knew she had an issue with me not having a higher salary, but I put it down to her not being in an ideal situation herself that I couldn't rescue her from, I didn't think it would be the deal breaker it turned out to be. I thought we were both working towards something together, to when things would be more settled and secure for both of us and that that's when our lives could move on.

leggo

Just to add to all of the above, I don't buy what you're telling yourself about 'having to be yourself' by hating her, I think you're (perhaps subconsciously) playing a game with her by removing all kindness in an effort to make her miss you and change her mind.

You're hung up on this girl, and I'd say that's hell when you've a child together and will have to see her regularly for 18 years, but the reality is she doesn't feel the same, she's not obliged to feel the same and at some stage you'll have to accept that. Your daughter is what matters here, so can't you suck up your dislike of this woman and try maintain some kind of civil relationship for the sake of your daughter?

Just to reiterate: she's not obliged to like you. So it's actually you who's creating this atmosphere. And to prioritise your own feelings above your daughter's is pretty selfish.

daisybelle2008

karton wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I feel my OP is being picked up a little incorrectly so to give more context, we had been very close throughout the past few years. We had serious talks about the future, about having more children, houses etc. We told each other that we were each others' best friend. I was supporting her and our daughter, giving ?1,000 a month towards food/creche etc as well as having her a lot of the time.

I knew she had an issue with me not having a higher salary, but I put it down to her not being in an ideal situation herself that I couldn't rescue her from, I didn't think it would be the deal breaker it turned out to be. I thought we were both working towards something together, to when things would be more settled and secure for both of us and that that's when our lives could move on.

OP you are trying to focus this back on making your ex the enemy. It's painful right now but this is not really about her. It's about you accepting its over, moving on, continuing to be a good Dad and building a new life. Down the road a happy new relationship, maybe siblings for your daughter is possible. That is not possible with your ex and your anger and negativity towards her is going to slow down the process and possibly damage you relationship with your daughter.
The temptation to get everybody (including your daughter) to take sides against her is a dangerous game with no winners.

karton

Just to reiterate: she's not obliged to like you. So it's actually you who's creating this atmosphere. And to prioritise your own feelings above your daughter's is pretty selfish.

I absolutely accept that she's not obliged to like me. As I said in my OP, if she had just said that she didn't feel the same way, I would have been upset but I couldn't hold it against her and I would get over it and I'm sure we could have eventually been friends.

However now I feel that she has just lead me along, and has prioritised her own aspirations of luxury/comfort over the family that we had talked about having.

I don't prioritise my feelings over my daughter's. But jesus I'm not a robot, I can't just slap a smile on my face and be all pals with her mum. I am very close with my daughter and I know that it isn't impacting her yet but I know that it will soon, which is why I posted here.

Ursus Horribilis

I can understand why you feel hard done by. You had feelings for your ex and she didn't handle things as nicely as she could have. I don't think the money issue was the only reason why she rejected you but it was a cruel one to use. It's possible that she isn't a nice person but you were too smitten to spot the warning signs. For what it's worth, I don't think she dealt with it as well as she could have. Maybe she's not a nice person, maybe she's not good at reading human emotions. I honestly don't know. What's done is done.

As to where to go from here. I think you could do with talking to someone. Perhaps a counsellor who'll give you to the tools to deal with this. I'm not sure telling you to get over yourself is going to help much to be honest.

karton

I can understand why you feel hard done by. You had feelings for your ex and she didn't handle things as nicely as she could have. I don't think the money issue was the only reason why she rejected you but it was a cruel one to use. It's possible that she isn't a nice person but you were too smitten to spot the warning signs. For what it's worth, I don't think she dealt with it as well as she could have. Maybe she's not a nice person, maybe she's not good at reading human emotions. I honestly don't know. What's done is done.

As to where to go from here. I think you could do with talking to someone. Perhaps a counsellor who'll give you to the tools to deal with this. I'm not sure telling you to get over yourself is going to help much to be honest.

Thanks for the reply. Truth is I did spot the warning signs, because there were many, but at the end of the day I loved her and I wanted things to work. Coming from a broken home myself I always swore that if I had kids of my own I'd never put them through it. I gave her so much leeway, always hoping the 'real her' would emerge when circumstances were better. You're right, she's very, very unemotional. Looking back I know I have been a fool, I was disillusioned and too optimistic. One of my first reactions when she stated what her bottomline was was that I dodged a bullet - if I had've been earning more but got sick, my business tanked, or anything else she'd be out the door. I want someone who'll be there thick or thin.

I've been to counselling before in the early days and it really helped manage the situation and maintain a productive/peaceful relationship when we were not on good terms in the beginning. I think I might have to seek more now, I feel beaten and hopeless at this stage.

batmanrobin

karton wrote: »

However now I feel that she has just lead me along, and has prioritised her own aspirations of luxury/comfort over the family that we had talked about having.

But jesus I'm not a robot

How has she lead you on? You said that a year has passed and she did not return your declaration of love, nor gave you any indication as to her intentions. A whole year! You were ignoring what was right in front of your face because you wanted her, you said that you two have been more off than on, that it was a short relationship before she got pregnant. I would argue that were it not for your child, she'd have dropped all contact with you long ago. Circumstances have forced you two to continue to be in each other's lives, well past the sell by date.

You keep saying that she won't be with you because of the money issue. What you are failing to accept is that this is just an excuse. If it wasn't money then it would be something else. Be realistic, if she actually wanted a relationship with you, she would be with you. There would be no excuses.

Also, I'm not saying be a robot when I say slap a smile on your face, what I am saying to you is to be an adult.

karton

How has she lead you on? You said that a year has passed and she did not return your declaration of love, nor gave you any indication as to her intentions. A whole year! You were ignoring what was right in front of your face because you wanted her, you said that you two have been more off than on, that it was a short relationship before she got pregnant.

Her not declaring her love or giving me an indication of her intentions was in keeping with her behaviour up until then for the past few years, during which time we had numerous conversations about the future, more kids etc.

I would argue that were it not for your child, she'd have dropped all contact with you long ago. Circumstances have forced you two to continue to be in each other's lives, well past the sell by date.

As I would have too. But circumstances brought us a lot closer together, as they often can do.

You keep saying that she won't be with you because of the money issue. What you are failing to accept is that this is just an excuse. If it wasn't money then it would be something else. Be realistic, if she actually wanted a relationship with you, she would be with you. There would be no excuses.

Only she knows for certain if it's just an excuse or not, but she had told me that she wanted things to work out. She told me afterwards that she "Waited for me for x years", (i.e waited for me to earn more, because I had never been with someone else etc). She puts money/standard of living way above everything else. To give you an example, I mentioned to her one time that a married couple with kids that we both knew had just split up. Her immediate reaction was "Oh she's got no qualifications it'll be hard for her to earn". No thought for the kids or even the couple, that's just the way her mind works, to focus on the practical.

Ursus Horribilis

karton wrote: »

I gave her so much leeway, always hoping the 'real her' would emerge when circumstances were better. You're right, she's very, very unemotional. Looking back I know I have been a fool, I was disillusioned and too optimistic.

I've seen people say here that you should never date someone based on their potential. That seems to be what was going on here. You loved her and kept hoping she'd turn into something she never will. It looks like the pair of you are incompatible and you know this.

Wesser

Why don't you sit down with her and explain to her calmly why you feel angry?
At least then you have got it off your chest .

LegacyUser

The most important person here is your daughter. My feeling is that you tried hard with your ex to make something of yourself so that long term you and her would have had a future.
She does not want the future you saw for you, her and your daughter.

She told you she does not want this future due to money. You have told us your working hard to build up a business and you employ a few people.
I think the money is just an excuse as you were not togehter long when she got pregnant. Also you were not in a position to make her life better a few years ago.

My advice to you now is accept this. See your daughter at the times you have agreed with her. I would not be taking your daughter half the week from now on either. If she is starting a good job let her step up now and pay for childcare. Just don't be willing to drop all when she wants the child minded. You need to start building up and moving on with your own life.
Also if she now has a good job I would not be giving her a €1000 a month for your daughter. You need to build up your own savings now.

daisybelle2008

lady 5000 wrote: »

I would not be taking your daughter half the week from now on either. If she is starting a good job let her step up now and pay for childcare. Just don't be willing to drop all when she wants the child minded. You need to start building up and moving on with your own life.
Also if she now has a good job I would not be giving her a ?1000 a month for your daughter. You need to build up your own savings now.

The child is his, he is not doing his ex some kind of favour by spending as much time as possible with his own child. He doesn't have to drop spending time and money on his daughter to punish her mother.

karton

lady 5000 wrote:

I think the money is just an excuse as you were not togehter long when she got pregnant. Also you were not in a position to make her life better a few years ago.

Hey thanks for the post.

The money isn't just an excuse, it's the bottomline for her, which she stated herself. I guess I haven't communicated this well enough - she reads a lot of money oriented blogs, financial self improvement stuff etc. It's something that she's quite engrossed with and talks about "when I'm rich I'll have xyz, do xyz" etc.

But whether it was an excuse or not, if it was in fact her bottomline it means she was willing to progress the relationship only if I was earning an amount of money that was to her satisfaction, or, if the money was just an excuse, she has deceived me up until now about the viability of the relationship. Both are utterly selfish in my view, especially when a child is involved?

daisybelle2008 wrote:

The child is his, he is not doing his ex some kind of favour by spending as much time as possible with his own child. He doesn't have to drop spending time and money on his daughter to punish her mother.

In fairness Lady 5000 said not to drop all when she wants. There's a difference between that and spending time with my daughter. Fair is doing 50% of the minding and I wouldn't renege on this. I wanted to highlight the fact that I was minding my daughter a few days a week as well as providing financial support because some people only do one or the other, or neither.

leggo

karton wrote: »

The money isn't just an excuse, it's the bottomline for her, which she stated herself. I guess I haven't communicated this well enough - she reads a lot of money oriented blogs, financial self improvement stuff etc. It's something that she's quite engrossed with and talks about "when I'm rich I'll have xyz, do xyz" etc.

But whether it was an excuse or not, if it was in fact her bottomline it means she was willing to progress the relationship only if I was earning an amount of money that was to her satisfaction, or, if the money was just an excuse, she has deceived me up until now about the viability of the relationship. Both are utterly selfish in my view, especially when a child is involved?

You're allowed be selfish when it comes to who you go out with. She doesn't have to like you, whether you have a child together or not! You need to get this into your head and accept it!

Trying to manipulate her into feeling shallow and guilty for her reasons, as well as head-****ing her by not looking at her or being civil for the child when you see her (which you need to do) is way more selfish IMO. She can't help what she likes, can't force herself to be attracted to you (and money is attractive to some, with lack thereof being unattractive to many too), whereas you can control yourself not being manipulative or spiteful. I'm sure it's not an ideal scenario for her to have to co-parent and that, if she could be into you, she would. But she's not. And she tried to be, a lot. So deal with it.

SimpleDimples

You really need to get to a place where you can accept the situation as it is. If you cannot get there on your own, seek help from a counsellor to work through the angry.

Why she doesn't want to be with you is irrelevant really. You just meed to accept you will not be a family unit. Would you really want to be with someone who only wanted you because of your earnings anyway?

Big Bag of Chips

If she loved you, truly loved you, then she would be with you, you would pull together as a family and make things work. And you would all be happy.

But she doesn't love you. She has never (am I right?) told you she loves you. So, if you earned this magic sum that she has in her head and had enough money to keep her, would you be happy knowing she was in a relationship with you but didn't actually love you? She was with you for money and what you could provide her with rather than because she saw you as her life partner and wanted to build a life with you playing a major part?

She doesn't love you, and whether she is using money as the excuse, or whether she definitely believes that that's why she can't be with you is irrelevant. The fact is, she doesn't love you. She might try. She might like the idea. She might think if circumstances were right that she could love you, and so on and so on, but that doesn't change the fact that she doesn't love you.

She can't make that happen, and you can't make that happen.

It's not her fault. It's not your fault.

But you do have to accept that now.

Ben Gadot

karton wrote: »

Hey thanks for the post.

The money isn't just an excuse, it's the bottomline for her, which she stated herself. I guess I haven't communicated this well enough - she reads a lot of money oriented blogs, financial self improvement stuff etc. It's something that she's quite engrossed with and talks about "when I'm rich I'll have xyz, do xyz" etc.

But whether it was an excuse or not, if it was in fact her bottomline it means she was willing to progress the relationship only if I was earning an amount of money that was to her satisfaction, or, if the money was just an excuse, she has deceived me up until now about the viability of the relationship. Both are utterly selfish in my view, especially when a child is involved?



In fairness Lady 5000 said not to drop all when she wants. There's a difference between that and spending time with my daughter. Fair is doing 50% of the minding and I wouldn't renege on this. I wanted to highlight the fact that I was minding my daughter a few days a week as well as providing financial support because some people only do one or the other, or neither.

It all sounds pretty toxic to be honest. Do what's best for your daughter first and foremost and forget about her mother. Leave her to her dreams about money because that's all it's likely to be.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

I can understand why you are angry. You (imo) seem to be perceiving what your ex said as a pretty emasculating comment. It strikes to your core that your ex would be with you if you were a better provider. It's a pity that we live in times when gender-roles are still very fixed. She appears to have the old fashioned view that a man should be the provider, and that the man she ends up with should provide her with a high standard of living. To fall short of that is hard for a man to hear.

You have let her comment diminish your own sense of self worth, which is a mistake imo. You are providing for your daughter, you are an excellent father, you are also providing a living for four other people. These are incredible achievements and you need to give yourself credit for what you have achieved so far. Stop defining yourself on her terms, but instead see yourself for the success you already are.

When you realise that she can't love you for the impressive person you already are, I hope you will no longer want her to love you. You will realise you deserve better than to be defined by an out-dated and narrow paradigm.

You deserve to be with someone who loves you for who you are. Your ex has different (imo worse) standards and that's her right, but don't let her tell you who you are. You are a great father who's building a better life not just for you and her, but for your employees as well, focus on that.