Is our rent review invalid?

gizmo81

Just looking for some advice on whether our rent review notice is invalid.

Firstly it states rent increase takes effect in 90 days from receipt of notice then it states

1. Any dispute in relation to the setting of the rent pursuant to a review of the rent under a tenancy must be referred to the Residential Tenancies Board under Part 6 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 before-
(i) [insert date from which the new rent is to have effect] here it states 1 year and 90 days from date of notice
or
(ii) the expiry of 28 days from the receipt by you of this notice,

Because of the mistake is the notice invalid?

Fian

gizmo81 wrote: »

Just looking for some advice on whether our rent review notice is invalid.

Firstly it states rent increase takes effect in 90 days from receipt of notice then it states

1. Any dispute in relation to the setting of the rent pursuant to a review of the rent under a tenancy must be referred to the Residential Tenancies Board under Part 6 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 before-
(i) [insert date from which the new rent is to have effect] here it states 1 year and 90 days from date of notice
or
(ii) the expiry of 28 days from the receipt by you of this notice,

Because of the mistake is the notice invalid?

Probably.

If you invoked that type of pedantry to get around the notice your landlord is likely to actively seek to evict you. You clearly understand that it is a typo/mistake.

Fian

gizmo81 wrote: »

Thanks for your judgement on a situation you know nothing about! Anything of value to add to my query?

I don't believe it is a mistake.

Forgive me then, i don't know where i got that idea from.

gizmo81 wrote: »

Because of the mistake is the notice invalid?

gizmo81

I believe that it is an intentional mistake that is for their own gain.

Fian wrote: »

Forgive me then, i don't know where i got that idea from.

Sarn

gizmo81 wrote: »

I believe that it is an intentional mistake that is for their own gain.

I can't see where they would gain from that error as it just relate to the period in which you can appeal. It just looks like a basic mistake as it should state the date from which the new rent takes effect.

gizmo81

gizmo81 wrote: »

I believe that it is an intentional mistake that is for their own gain.

How could they possibly gain from this?

A typo like that does not necessarily make a notice invalid.

gizmo81

A landlord cannot evict you for paying attention to the RTB advice on

What makes a Rent Review Notice valid?
It must state the amount of new rent and the date from which is to have effect.
It must include a statement that a dispute must be referred to the Board on the expiry of 28 days from the receipt by the tenant of that notice or the date the new rent takes effect.
It must include a statement by the landlord that it is their opinion that the new rent is not greater than market rent having regard to the other terms of the tenancy, letting values of dwellings of a similar size, type and character and situated in a comparable area.
It must specify the rent amount for three comparable dwellings of a similar size, type and character and situated in a comparable area.
It must include the date on which the notice is signed.
It must be signed by the landlord or his/her authorised agent.
A landlord is also required to notify the RTB of the revised rent so that the registrations details can be updated.
If the dwelling is located within a Rent Pressure Zone, the Formula must be included. See further information on this below.


https://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/rent-reviews

I follow the law.

Fian wrote: »

Probably.

If you invoked that type of pedantry to get around the notice your landlord is likely to actively seek to evict you. You clearly understand that it is a typo/mistake.

gizmo81

gizmo81 wrote: »

A landlord cannot evict you for paying attention to the RTB advice on

What makes a Rent Review Notice valid?
It must state the amount of new rent and the date from which is to have effect.
It must include a statement that a dispute must be referred to the Board on the expiry of 28 days from the receipt by the tenant of that notice or the date the new rent takes effect.
It must include a statement by the landlord that it is their opinion that the new rent is not greater than market rent having regard to the other terms of the tenancy, letting values of dwellings of a similar size, type and character and situated in a comparable area.
It must specify the rent amount for three comparable dwellings of a similar size, type and character and situated in a comparable area.
It must include the date on which the notice is signed.
It must be signed by the landlord or his/her authorised agent.
A landlord is also required to notify the RTB of the revised rent so that the registrations details can be updated.
If the dwelling is located within a Rent Pressure Zone, the Formula must be included. See further information on this below.


https://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/rent-reviews

I follow the law.

The RTB have also stated in the past that typos like this can be discounted when it very obviously in every other way what the intention of the notice is.

gizmo81

Can you please reference this statement? Thank you

Evan Uptight Sage wrote: »

The RTB have also stated in the past that typos like this can be discounted when it very obviously in every other way what the intention of the notice is.

Ms Doubtfire1

Just ask for clarification as you're confused.

gizmo81

gizmo81 wrote: »

Can you please reference this statement? Thank you

No as I read it stated in the findings of an RTB case/cases in the past but have no idea which one it was.

davo10

gizmo81 wrote: »

Can you please reference this statement? Thank you

Right here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/42/section/30/enacted/en/html

gizmo81

Thank you, however, it's not a termination, it's a rent review.

davo10 wrote: »

Right here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/42/section/30/enacted/en/html

Zulu

Have you bothered to contact the landlord to clarify?

gizmo81

gizmo81 wrote: »

Thank you, however, it's not a termination, it's a rent review.

The same philosophy will apply. Its no different to a person trying to get out of a speeding fine because their name was misspelled, i.e. it doesn't work.

davo10

gizmo81 wrote: »

Thank you, however, it's not a termination, it's a rent review.

I suspect this was included in the Act to allow the RTB some flexibility when dealing with notices and to consider that slips and omissions occur unintentionally without changing the material effect of the notice. It would be unrealistic to expect it not to allow for slips in one type of notice, but to allow for it in another.

Fian

Evan Uptight Sage wrote: »

The same philosophy will apply. Its no different to a person trying to get out of a speeding fine because their name was misspelled, i.e. it doesn't work.

In fact you can get out of a speeding fine if your name is misspelled. Similarly if they put the wrong house number on a search warrant the evidence they gather is likely to be inadmissible and you can have someone acquitted of a much more serious offence than speeding as a consequence. Technicalities are important in legal terms.

the Act is explicit in its requirements:

22(2A) The notice referred to in subsection (2) shall—

(a) without prejudice to subsection (2) and pursuant to the condition referred to in that subsection, state the amount of the new rent and the date from which it is to have effect,

(b) include a statement that a dispute in relation to the setting of a rent pursuant to a review of the rent under a tenancy must be referred to the Board under Part 6 before—

(i) the date stated in the notice as the date from which that rent is to have effect, or

(ii) the expiry of 28 days from the receipt by the tenant of that notice,
whichever is the later,

I suspect the OP will succeed if he pushes it in requiring a fresh rent review and fresh notice.

As I indicated earlier I suspect if he does the landlord will also decide to exercise some legal rights of their own and evict the OP for one of the permitted reasons for termination or at the expiry of the Part IV tenancy. In the long run it would be better for the OP to buy some goodwill by pointing out the error but indicating they won't make any issue of it, rather than seeking to get another 3 months at a lower rent at the cost of their tenancy. Particularly if they are in an RPZ, which of course they may not be.

Sometimes the smart thing is not to win a minor point (even though you can) when the other side have the power to punish you for it.

Fian

Fian wrote: »

In fact you can get out of a speeding fine if your name is misspelled. Similarly if they put the wrong house number on a search warrant the evidence they gather is likely to be inadmissible and you can have someone acquitted of a much more serious offence than speeding as a consequence. Technicalities are important in legal terms.

No you won't get off on a speeding fine for a misspelled name.

To get to court it has to remain unpaid and at which point you will get summonsed. In court the prosecuting Garda can apply to amend the name on the summons and such requests are basically never refused.

I agree technicalities are very important and there are many which will get you off on things but small slips like misspelling a name when it's clear who the person is and they committed the offence won't. The op is looking to weasel out of a legal rent review and it's unlikely to succeed and if it does eviction is likely.

gizmo81

On this thread I've been call a weasel, compared to law breakers and accusing of a lack of intelligence, posters have tried to instil a fear in me of becoming homeless for following the law, all from asking some clarity on the RTB information on What makes a Rent Review Valid?

https://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/rent-reviews

It's disappointing but what I've come to expect.

I pay my rent on time, I keep the property in great condition. I report an issues as they arise. I am the perfect tenant.

On the other hand the landlord and their representative have abandoned their obligations, maintenance. Our goodwill is running out.

There is no right to a rent review until the expiry of 24 months for tenancies that began before 24th December 2016.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/42/section/25/enacted/en/html#sec25

An exemption for 'substantial refurbishment' is not an exemption for fulfilling minimum standards obligations.

A landlord should make sure they are compliant with their obligations before a representative fires off a rent review notice which not only contains alleged typos but also a rent review they have not right to do.

Also trying make me fearful of becoming homeless is not going to work. Of the 6 grounds for terminating a tenancy only 2 could be invoked, selling and family members.

Paulw

gizmo81 wrote: »

On this thread I've been call a weasel, compared to law breakers and accusing of a lack of intelligence, posters have tried to instil a fear in me of becoming homeless for following the law, all from asking some clarity on the RTB information on What makes a Rent Review Valid?

With all due respect, you posted here looking for opinions. You got a number of opinions, some saying that the notice is most likely valid and some saying that it may be technically invalid. In reality, only the RTB can make a legal judgement on the validity of the notice. All people here can do is give their opinion.

You have not been called a weasel, not compared to law breakers and not been accused of a lack of intelligence. People saying that someone is trying to weasel out of something is a phrase, nothing more. People comparing a probable mistake on the notice to a misspelling on a speeding ticket does not compare you to a law breaker, but rather compares how the courts tend to deal with minor issues in paperwork.

Information on how the RTB judge things is not always clearcut black and white. Adjudicating panels and judges make determinations based on law and sometimes common sense.

You need to make your own decision if you believe the notice to be valid or not, but even still, the RTB may or may not agree with you.

Zulu

Zulu wrote: »

Have you bothered to contact the landlord to clarify?

...and you haven't bothered to answer this question put to you. Which is telling.

CruelCoin

gizmo81 wrote: »

Just looking for some advice on whether our rent review notice is invalid.

Firstly it states rent increase takes effect in 90 days from receipt of notice then it states

Are you in a pressure zone? Are you significantly below the market going rate?

If you are, the clever thing to do would be to accept the 4%, rather than risk being evicted and then having to pay market going rate...

You're trying to use a technicality and an obvious typo. Perfect tenant? The landlord is trying in crease the rent after a fair period and you're refusing on the basis on a typo?

gizmo81

Apologies, no I did not contact the representative of the landlord.

I have referred a dispute to the RTB for adjudication as per the notice received by the representative of the landlord.

Zulu wrote: »

...and you haven't bothered to answer this question put to you. Which is telling.

gizmo81

I am in an RPZ.

No I am not below market rent.

Sadly the increase isn't 4% it's 19%

It's not a fair period, the landlord must wait 24 months.

CruelCoin wrote: »

Are you in a pressure zone? Are you significantly below the market going rate?

If you are, the clever thing to do would be to accept the 4%, rather than risk being evicted and then having to pay market going rate...

You're trying to use a technicality and an obvious typo. Perfect tenant? The landlord is trying in crease the rent after a fair period and you're refusing on the basis on a typo?

The_Conductor

gizmo81 wrote: »

I am in an RPZ.

No I am not below market rent.

Sadly the increase isn't 4% it's 19%.

If you are not currently below market rates, and you are in an RPZ- the review is invalid based purely on the fact the maximum increase that can be sought is determined by this calculator:


https://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/rpz-calculator

Plug the sums into the calculator and it will give you the maximum a landlord can seek to increase the rent by.

gizmo81 wrote: »

It's not a fair period, the landlord must wait 24 months.

The length of time the landlord must wait before he/she reviews the rent depends on two things-

When the tenancy commenced- and when there last was a review.

gizmo81

Thank you. i had looked at this. The calculator informs me:

Review date must be greater than 24 months!

We are only in the property since the first quarter of 2016 when the current rent was set.

The_Conductor wrote: »

If you are not currently below market rates, and you are in an RPZ- the review is invalid based purely on the fact the maximum increase that can be sought is determined by this calculator:


https://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/rpz-calculator

Plug the sums into the calculator and it will give you the maximum a landlord can seek to increase the rent by.




The length of time the landlord must wait before he/she reviews the rent depends on two things-

When the tenancy commenced- and when there last was a review.

Browney7

gizmo81 wrote: »

I am in an RPZ.

No I am not below market rent.

Sadly the increase isn't 4% it's 19%

It's not a fair period, the landlord must wait 24 months.

If you had put this information in the Opening post you'd have received very different responses to be fair

Fian

gizmo81 wrote: »

Thank you. i had looked at this. The calculator informs me:

Review date must be greater than 24 months!

We are only in the property since the first quarter of 2016 when the current rent was set.

Had you said in your opening post that the landlord was seeking to increase your rent by an amount not permitted in an RPZ, or that your landlord was seeking to increase your rent within the first 24 months of a new tenancy which started before the RPZ legislation came in I would have told you not to accept the rent increase and to refer the matter to the RTB. Those are to very good reasons to refuse to accept the rent increase, much better reasons than the typo you referred to.

The landlord must wait 24 months from the start of your tenancy to issue a rent review, the increased rent cannot take effect for a further 90 days and the increased rent cannot be increased beyond 4.25% from the rent set when you commenced your tenancy in q1 2016.

The_Conductor

Gizmo-

As I believe you now have an appropriate manner of validly disputing the suggested rent increase- I am closing your thread.

Kind regards,

The_Conductor