Garda Adult Caution

notverysmart

Hi All.

I got arrested by a Garda in February for not leaving an area when asked to. It was a Saturday night in Dublin wasn't fighting or swearing or anything like that.

Got taken to the Garda station and told I would be given an adult caution.

Just wondering in general how long before you usually hear from the Garda about getting this because its been over 3 months no and I have heard anything.

Also when I was released I had to sign an A3 form in a book, just wondering does anyone know what this is? is it just to say I got my stuff back or a charge sheet or is this the adult caution? I didn't get to keep a copy of this when I asked for one if that helps.

AnMuinteoirOg

notverysmart wrote: »

Hi All.

I got arrested by a Garda in February for not leaving an area when asked to. It was a Saturday night in Dublin wasn't fighting or swearing or anything like that.

Got taken to the Garda station and told I would be given an adult caution.

Just wondering in general how long before you usually hear from the Garda about getting this because its been over 3 months no and I have heard anything.

Also when I was released I had to sign an A3 form in a book, just wondering does anyone know what this is? is it just to say I got my stuff back or a charge sheet or is this the adult caution? I didn't get to keep a copy of this when I asked for one if that helps.

Considering you didn't get a copy of what you signed id perfume you signed the custody record to say you got your property back

notverysmart

Cheers that is a relief. Now the only question i have is it's been over 3 months since it happened. Will I be getting an adult caution and if so how long will it be. I read the citizens into website and it said it would be a matter of days not weeks buts it's been over 3 months

Fred Swanson

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judeboy101

Should have done a Seany Fitz

notverysmart

Really? if it goes past 6 months they cant do anything at all?

How do you know this? iv been reading a lot about it cause its melting my head ha but never came across that

Fred Swanson

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notverysmart

o yea I read that somewhere alright. So can I just refuse the adult caution then if its over 6 months? I thought they could still give it to me as its not technically a prosecution.

In general I think its a bit messed up that they can arrest someone for something so minor!

Teyla Emmagan

notverysmart wrote:

In general I think its a bit messed up that they can arrest someone for something so minor!

I'm fine with it personally.

Lmklad

notverysmart wrote: »

Hi All.

I got arrested by a Garda in February for not leaving an area when asked to. It was a Saturday night in Dublin wasn't fighting or swearing or anything like that.

Got taken to the Garda station and told I would be given an adult caution.

Just wondering in general how long before you usually hear from the Garda about getting this because its been over 3 months no and I have heard anything.

Also when I was released I had to sign an A3 form in a book, just wondering does anyone know what this is? is it just to say I got my stuff back or a charge sheet or is this the adult caution? I didn't get to keep a copy of this when I asked for one if that helps.

I wouldn't presume anything. You either signed the custody record to say you received your propert back or you signed the Adult Caution book saying you accepted the caution. You can read as much as you want online or here but really the only way to solve this is by contacting the station / Garda in question and asking what the story is.

smurfyirl

Was the a3 booklet green or pink? Green is the adult caution book and pinks the custody record.

For public order offences there is six months to initiate a prosecution. Technically the adult caution is that prosecution. So there is another three months to bring you in for it. They may just be busy.

If you didn't give a correct number or address or anything like that, then they can revert to a summons. Once this has been applied for in the six months it's perfectly legal as long as it's applied for in that period. The summons may not come up in court for 8-9 months but it doesn't matter as the application is the bit with the time limit.

Fred Swanson

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Curly Judge

I always understood that a caution, if uncontested, was a minor conviction?

Fred Swanson

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GM228

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Who in the station can administer the caution? I would be thinking an inspector.

It's actually the superintendent (or an inspector acting on behalf of the superintendent).

notverysmart

the book I signed was white A3 think the carbon copy of it was green to be honest but cant be 100% its been a good while at this stage. I did give them my proper address as they had my driving license with it on it and I don't think they asked for my phone number.

If that was the adult caution I signed then I never signed the custody record to say I got my stuff as I only signed one book. Could that be right, that I only got the caution and didn't get a copy of it (after I asked for a copy of what I signed but was told I couldn't have one), and didn't sign the custody record?

GM228

notverysmart wrote: »

the book I signed was white A3 think the carbon copy of it was green to be honest but cant be 100% its been a good while at this stage. I did give them my proper address as they had my driving license with it on it and I don't think they asked for my phone number.

If that was the adult caution I signed then I never signed the custody record to say I got my stuff as I only signed one book. Could that be right, that I only got the caution and didn't get a copy of it (after I asked for a copy of what I signed but was told I couldn't have one), and didn't sign the custody record?

If you signed a white A3 sized sheet in a book that was the custody record.

The adult caution book containes two carbon copies on top of the original, one of which you keep. If you had signed for a caution you would have a copy of it and you would have known what you signed - in other words had you received the caution you would not now be wondering what you signed or if you actually got the benefit of the caution, you would be 100% certain you received the caution.

Curly Judge

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Exactly what I said, an uncontested caution is an admission of guilt and therefore a conviction

angeline

Curly Judge wrote: »

Exactly what I said, an uncontested caution is an admission of guilt and therefore a conviction

It is not a conviction. It does not go to court. You are only convicted of a crime in court, not on accepting an adult caution in an Inspector or Super's office. That is the whole idea of an Adult Caution, it is not recorded as a conviction.

GM228

Curly Judge wrote: »

Exactly what I said, an uncontested caution is an admission of guilt and therefore a conviction

As already pointed out a caution is not a conviction.

What do you mean by uncontested? It's not a case of the person being offered the caution that they must object or opt out, it's quite tbe opposite, the person being cautioned aside from admitting the accusation must also give an informed consent to be cautioned.

Avatar MIA

The word 'caution' is important here. It's a warning before conviction. It's not even shown up under a Garda Vetting form.

In sporting parlance, it's like a yellow card.

But, it looks like the OP didn't even receive one.

Curly Judge

GM228 wrote: »

As already pointed out a caution is not a conviction.

What do you mean by uncontested? It's not a case of the person being offered the caution that they must object or opt out, it's quite tbe opposite, the person being cautioned aside from admitting the accusation must also give an informed consent to be cautioned.

Let's say you are brought into a Garda station following some incident.
After questioning you, they decide to let you go, either because they don't have enough evidence to charge you or because the incident was of such a trivial nature as to not warrant further effort on their part.
They decide to issue you with a caution. You, just to get out of the place, agree and sign as accepting their caution.
You now have a minor conviction on your record.

Fred Swanson

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GM228

Curly Judge wrote: »

Let's say you are brought into a Garda station following some incident.
After questioning you, they decide to let you go, either because they don't have enough evidence to charge you or because the incident was of such a trivial nature as to not warrant further effort on their part.
They decide to issue you with a caution. You, just to get out of the place, agree and sign as accepting their caution.

Gardaí won't issue a caution in either situation you outline, they are not issued for any trivial incidents and when they are issued there must be prima facia evidence of the offence before it is offered, in other words if there isn't enough evidence for a court trial a caution can't be issued.

Curly Judge wrote: »

You now have a minor conviction on your record.

You don't, you need to get a better understanding of what a conviction is.

A conviction is a finding of guilt by a court of law, an admission of guilt is not a conviction, plenty of people admit to the acts they are accused of but are not found guilty of the crime accused, they carry no conviction.

Even a guilty plea in itself is not a conviction either, the conviction is the courts acceptance of guilt based on your plea - i.e the conviction is the determination of the court.

Lmklad

notverysmart wrote: »

the book I signed was white A3 think the carbon copy of it was green to be honest but cant be 100% its been a good while at this stage. I did give them my proper address as they had my driving license with it on it and I don't think they asked for my phone number.

If that was the adult caution I signed then I never signed the custody record to say I got my stuff as I only signed one book. Could that be right, that I only got the caution and didn't get a copy of it (after I asked for a copy of what I signed but was told I couldn't have one), and didn't sign the custody record?

If it had a green carbon that's the caution book. The custody record has a pink/purple carbon. Your signature just means you are willing to accept the caution. You should be contacted by an inspector/ superintendent who than meets you and formally gives you your caution.

Fred Swanson

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notverysmart

Lmklad wrote: »

If it had a green carbon that's the caution book. The custody record has a pink/purple carbon. Your signature just means you are willing to accept the caution. You should be contacted by an inspector/ superintendent who than meets you and formally gives you your caution.

Does this mean I never signed the custody record at all then so? And would I not be given a copy of the form to say I was willing to accept the caution?

Sup08

The OP be better reading this to put their mind at ease, unless it is a second offence under an Adult Caution.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/law_enforcement/adult_cautioning_scheme.html

vg88

Say if OP did sign the caution form, but didn't receive a copy would that raise any issues?

GM228

notverysmart wrote: »

Does this mean I never signed the custody record at all then so? And would I not be given a copy of the form to say I was willing to accept the caution?

If you are arrested and held in custody in a station you must sign the custody record. Were you held in custody? If so you did sign the custody record.

With regards receiving your copy of the caution, you only receive such when the caution is administered.

notverysmart

GM228 wrote: »

If you are arrested and held in custody in a station you must sign the custody record. Were you held in custody? If so you did sign the custody record.

With regards receiving your copy of the caution, you only receive such when the caution is administered.

I'm have never been arrested before so not sure what held in custody is but basically I was put in a cell cos I wanted to make a call and they told me I wasn't allowed until the morning because the inspector had to let me make one but about an hour later they let me out the cell made me sign something and let me go. There was another garda there at that time that also wudbt let me make a call said I would just be annoying whoever it was I was calling as it was late and that they'd tell me to sign it anyway.

notverysmart

Sup08 wrote: »

The OP be better reading this to put their mind at ease, unless it is a second offence under an Adult Caution.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/law_enforcement/adult_cautioning_scheme.html

What does OP stand for?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

GM228

notverysmart wrote: »

I'm have never been arrested before so not sure what held in custody is but basically I was put in a cell cos I wanted to make a call and they told me I wasn't allowed until the morning because the inspector had to let me make one but about an hour later they let me out the cell made me sign something and let me go. There was another garda there at that time that also wudbt let me make a call said I would just be annoying whoever it was I was calling as it was late and that they'd tell me to sign it anyway.

So you were held in custody briefly meaning you should have signed the custody record.

I seriously doubt you were put in a cell simply "cos I wanted to make a call", I also find it odd that they wouldn't allow you make a call because it was late and you would be annoying someone, that is irrelevant to them, you are legally entitled to a phone call unless the inspector considers the call would hinder or delay the investigation of the offence.

Avatar MIA

notverysmart wrote: »

What does OP stand for?

Only Precautionary

notverysmart

GM228 wrote: »

So you were held in custody briefly meaning you should have signed the custody record.

I seriously doubt you were put in a cell simply "cos I wanted to make a call", I also find it odd that they wouldn't allow you make a call because it was late and you would be annoying someone, that is irrelevant to them, you are legally entitled to a phone call unless the inspector considers the call would hinder or delay the investigation of the offence.

when I was brought to the station they wanted me to sign the adult caution thing straight away when I said I wasn't willing to until I called someone they put me in a cell as it was about 2am. They firstly said only the inspector in charge of the station could allow me to make a call and as he wasn't in until 11am I would have to wait till then. When I said fine I will wait they put me in the cell. About an hour later the garda at the desk along with another garda took me out and asked me to sign a book again I said I wont until I get to make a call. It was then the garda said whoever I wanted to call would just be annoyed as it was so late and that I was being stupid as they would just tell me to sign it anyway. I then signed the book and was let go.

This is exactly what happened. I wasn't drunk or belligerent at any time with them.

stanley1989

Op do not contact the garda station that will do everything but solve it ... You'll probably get a summons or a fixed penalty notice if you do that ... chances are it's forgotten about the guards have bigger fish to fry it's a minor issue
Most importantly of all do not refuse a caution if it comes to it ... As ridiculous as getting lifted for not moving along is , you still don't want a summons Mod deletion. OTT criticism of AGS

notverysmart

stanley1989 wrote: »

Op do not contact the garda station that will do everything but solve it ... You'll probably get a summons or a fixed penalty notice if you do that ... chances are it's forgotten about the guards have bigger fish to fry it's a minor issue
Most importantly of all do not refuse a caution if it comes to it ... As ridiculous as getting lifted for not moving along is , you still don't want a summons Mod deletion

Yea I am just hoping its all forgotten about at this stage, its the waiting in limbo and not knowing what's happening that has me worried!

stanley1989

notverysmart wrote: »

Yea I am just hoping its all forgotten about at this stage, its the waiting in limbo and not knowing what's happening that has me worried!

You can always move address and dodge the summons lol ... i really wouldn't worry about it ... Peace out

boardsuser1

This whole adult caution this confuses me.

About 10 years ago I was on the right and wrong ends of this scheme (kind of)

In the first case I assaulted another male, had no previous, Gardai wanted to offer a caution, victim said no and I was prosecuted in court. Judge refused the probation act.

In the second case I was on the receiving end of an assault, the person who assaulted me also had no previous, but was granted the caution without my knowledge.

I would have liked to have been asked as was the case where I was in the wrong.

Am I missing something here?

Avatar MIA

Don't assault someone and put yourself at the vagaries of the law.

One assault may not be the same as another. The judge in the first instance thought it warranted a custodial sentence.

What I didn't realise was that the victim has a say. I didn't think that happened in our system.