Selling an animal within a withdrawal period.

Limestone Cowboy

Hey guys, have a dry cow that I wouldn't mind selling that got red water and I had to give her imizol. She's under a withdrawal period until next October. What's the protocol here if I was to bring her to the mart? Obviously I would have to announce it, do you just give the date to the auctioneer or should you staple a note onto the card aswell because it would be easy for the buyer to forget the date. Not going to the mart with her because she's crazy and made for a neighbor and myself on two separate occasions within the last week but just curious to know what the protocol is. Ideally I'd send her to the factory but I can't. Need to get shot of her before she hurts someone though, only bought her a few months ago locally in good faith and I wasn't warned about her, I wouldn't really like selling her to someone else. Any suggestions? Why does imizol have a 213 day withdrawal period?

Base price

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Hey guys, have a dry cow that I wouldn't mind selling that got red water and I had to give her imizol. She's under a withdrawal period until next October. What's the protocol here if I was to bring her to the mart? Obviously I would have to announce it, do you just give the date to the auctioneer or should you staple a note onto the card aswell because it would be easy for the buyer to forget the date. Not going to the mart with her because she's crazy and made for a neighbor and myself on two separate occasions within the last week but just curious to know what the protocol is. Ideally I'd send her to the factory but I can't. Need to get shot of her before she hurts someone though, only bought her a few months ago locally in good faith and I wasn't warned about her, I wouldn't really like selling her to someone else. Any suggestions? Why does imizol have a 213 day withdrawal period?

As per DAFM legislation, it's illegal to sell an animal until the withdrawal time has expired.

I said

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Hey guys, have a dry cow that I wouldn't mind selling that got red water and I had to give her imizol. She's under a withdrawal period until next October. What's the protocol here if I was to bring her to the mart? Obviously I would have to announce it, do you just give the date to the auctioneer or should you staple a note onto the card aswell because it would be easy for the buyer to forget the date. Not going to the mart with her because she's crazy and made for a neighbor and myself on two separate occasions within the last week but just curious to know what the protocol is. Ideally I'd send her to the factory but I can't. Need to get shot of her before she hurts someone though, only bought her a few months ago locally in good faith and I wasn't warned about her, I wouldn't really like selling her to someone else. Any suggestions? Why does imizol have a 213 day withdrawal period?

The best thing would be keep her and put her on the hook

_Brian

Was just talking to a guy today about this, he had treated a cull cow for redwater.
Vet told him if he was selling that they would print off something that would need to be put with the card and have it announced if selling her.

He didn't bother

longgonesilver

A drug company rep once told me that Imizol has such a long withdrawal period because there was never any trials done on the withdrawal periods in Europe.

Imizol is sold in Ireland under a special license as an unapproved drug but is allowed because it is necessary for animal welfare and there is no approved alternative.

The dates for withdrawal are picked because they are deemed long enough to be sure that there is no risk to human health if the animal enters the food chain after that period and limited testing has found that to be the case.213 days is seven months.

In order to qualify for a shorter withdrawal category they would have to inject a group of cattle with the drug and then slaughter them after a set period. If traces of the drug were found then they would have to repeat the experiment with a longer period and slaughter and test again. As all the animals would have to be skipped the process is a costly one.

He said as the drug can already be sold and the volume of sales is so small and they can charge what they like for it, it would not be cost effective to do further trials.

Some work must have been done on it as I remember from twenty years ago that the milk withdrawal period was ninety days, now reduced to 21.

I farm in a mainly dairy area in the south and ticks and redwater are very rare.
Some of the vets had stopped carrying Imizol in their vans at that stage because of the cost and the low usage. My farm was ploughed regularly and we had no waste or difficult areas for ticks to survive, however my neighbour had a problem with redwater and never ploughed or did anything about it apart from vaccinating bought in cattle. Ticks occasionally seemed to crawl over the ditch and we had one case of redwater every two or three years. He identified one field beside me that seemed to be the problem, and abandoned it completely. The next year the ticks were hungry and breeding season was approaching and they went looking for cattle. They found my cows and within a week I had over twenty cases of redwater. :mad::(:rolleyes:

With regards to your cow, if she is in calf there is a possibility that she has already lost the calf due to the high temperature that is part of the infection.
Was she cross and dangerous before she got sick? It could be caused by the handling and injecting or it might be hormone related due to the changing pregnancy status, if so she might settle down again as things return to normality.

Limestone Cowboy

longgonesilver wrote: »

A drug company rep once told me that Imizol has such a long withdrawal period because there was never any trials done on the withdrawal periods in Europe.

Imizol is sold in Ireland under a special license as an unapproved drug but is allowed because it is necessary for animal welfare and there is no approved alternative.

The dates for withdrawal are picked because they are deemed long enough to be sure that there is no risk to human health if the animal enters the food chain after that period and limited testing has found that to be the case.213 days is seven months.

In order to qualify for a shorter withdrawal category they would have to inject a group of cattle with the drug and then slaughter them after a set period. If traces of the drug were found then they would have to repeat the experiment with a longer period and slaughter and test again. As all the animals would have to be skipped the process is a costly one.

He said as the drug can already be sold and the volume of sales is so small and they can charge what they like for it, it would not be cost effective to do further trials.

Some work must have been done on it as I remember from twenty years ago that the milk withdrawal period was ninety days, now reduced to 21.

I farm in a mainly dairy area in the south and ticks and redwater are very rare.
Some of the vets had stopped carrying Imizol in their vans at that stage because of the cost and the low usage. My farm was ploughed regularly and we had no waste or difficult areas for ticks to survive, however my neighbour had a problem with redwater and never ploughed or did anything about it apart from vaccinating bought in cattle. Ticks occasionally seemed to crawl over the ditch and we had one case of redwater every two or three years. He identified one field beside me that seemed to be the problem, and abandoned it completely. The next year the ticks were hungry and breeding season was approaching and they went looking for cattle. They found my cows and within a week I had over twenty cases of redwater. :mad::(:rolleyes:

With regards to your cow, if she is in calf there is a possibility that she has already lost the calf due to the high temperature that is part of the infection.
Was she cross and dangerous before she got sick? It could be caused by the handling and injecting or it might be hormone related due to the changing pregnancy status, if so she might settle down again as things return to normality.

No she's just a cnut and has been like that since she came.

Limestone Cowboy

I said wrote: »

The best thing would be keep her and put her on the hook

I think keeping her is the worst thing I could do but don't have much of a choice by the look of it.

patsy_mccabe

213 days alright;
https://www.hpra.ie/img/uploaded/swedocuments/LicenseSPC_10996-234-001_25072013115937.pdf

Find it hard to believe that any drug would last that long in the system. Even the Trodax Injection for fluke is only 60 days. You have to balance the risk of having her around, with a good chance of her hurting or killing someone. Have a word with you vet.

Mooooo

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I think keeping her is the worst thing I could do but don't have much of a choice by the look of it.

If she's that dangerous into the shed nearest the closest loading point and stick her on straw/ hay and ration. I know it's the costliest thing but if you can't get rid it's the safest thing. It's that or shoot her

Limestone Cowboy

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

213 days alright;
https://www.hpra.ie/img/uploaded/swedocuments/LicenseSPC_10996-234-001_25072013115937.pdf

Find it hard to believe that any drug would last that long in the system. Even the Trodax Injection for fluke is only 60 days. M You have to balance the risk of having her around, with a good chance of her hurting or killing someone. Have a word with you vet.

I'll talk to the vet alright. I had the neighbour warned about her but he went in to look at the new bull which he shouldn't have and he told me he barely got over the wall away from her. I'd be afraid the auld fella might get caught with her to be honest and that's the main reason I want her gone.

Count Mondego

What kind of a kunt sold her on to you?

Limestone Cowboy

Count Mondego wrote: »

What kind of a kunt sold her on to you?

A good friend :rolleyes:

ganmo

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

A good friend :rolleyes:

Sell her back to him?

Injuryprone

Do you know any local finishers with adequate indoor facilities to deal with her? You can sell her to anyone, just not to slaughter obviously, so long as you advise the buyer of the withdrawal date (preferably in writing I suppose)

Limestone Cowboy

ganmo wrote: »

Sell her back to him?

I'd doubt he'd jump at that.

Limestone Cowboy

Injuryprone wrote: »

Do you know any local finishers with adequate indoor facilities to deal with her? You can sell her to anyone, just not to slaughter obviously, so long as you advise the buyer of the withdrawal date (preferably in writing I suppose)

Know a couple alright. Wouldn't be the most generous of sorts though. I'll run it by them when I bump into them.

Count Mondego

I'm not joking here, i'd go out with the gun and shoot her in the head. She could kill yourself or the auld lad. 150 quid to get rid of her then. Just take to hit on her and move on. Better than trying to have her hooked and turning up as contaminated.

patsy_mccabe

Out of interest LC, what is her breeding? Is she a limousin?:D

Limestone Cowboy

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Out of interest LC, what is her breeding? Is she a limousin?:D

A purebred Simmental, by fbx. No problem with the Lims here bar the odd one after calving for a day or two and you'll have that with any breed.

Limestone Cowboy

Count Mondego wrote: »

I'm not joking here, i'd go out with the gun and shoot her in the head. She could kill yourself or the auld lad. 150 quid to get rid of her then. Just take to hit on her and move on. Better than trying to have her hooked and turning up as contaminated.

The girlfriend said the same thing, no gun here though! She'll have to go some way or the other, I'm not leaving her around here like that for the next 5 months. I'd rather it didn't come to that though.

Muckit

Stick her in the crush, put halter on her and then tie her up for the day just outside crush while you go about your business. Check on her every so often. Let her take her madness out on herself.

Only other option is stick her in shed and stuff her with hay and nuts and out the gap once you get any fat cover on her

pure breed

Agree with Muckit here, halter her up for week or two and put in pen tied just loose enough to eat over barrier. Often quietened a wild one here like that.
Could also tie her back legs together loosely when you let out, we used to do this with cows that wouldn't let calves suck, least give you a chance or the auld lad especially if she makes for ye.

Limestone Cowboy

She's not wild lads, she's wicked and dangerous. You'd want to be off your head to be haltering her and I'd be plucky enough around stock, I wouldn't try it in a fit.

Never wrestle with pigs

Is it possible to get her in safely with other cows? If so I'd feed her. If she's not easy/safe to get in call your local gun club. Better to take the hit than calling an ambulance.

ganmo

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

She's not wild lads, she's wicked and dangerous. You'd want to be off your head to be haltering her and I'd be plucky enough around stock, I wouldn't try it in a fit.

does lorry driver not carry a humane killer?

greysides

Sounds like a job for a feedlot. Better than shooting her.

patsy_mccabe

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

She's not wild lads, she's wicked and dangerous. You'd want to be off your head to be haltering her and I'd be plucky enough around stock, I wouldn't try it in a fit.

I was in similar situation last year. No issue with withdrawals though. A PB Lim cow that I paid enough for as a heifer. She went mad after calving. Tried to kill me twice. Cleared a gate in one go once, to get away from here. Told an older relative about her and he though it was funny. He went into the field the next day with his 8 year old grandson. Ended up putting her in a shed with a padlock on the door. A relief to have her gone out of the place. No halter in the world would have quietened this one.