Ashbourne & Planes

cubix

I did ask this question in the aviation section about 6-8months ago but everybody said nothing has changed.

Have lived up up Johnswood way for 15yrs and would hear the odd one now and then. Begining of 2016 it would seem the planes are turning right sooner over kilbride/ratoath way as they use to pass further north of Ashbourne before heading out over the Irish sea. Where as now they are more or less directly over Ashbourne village. Some of the aviation heads mentioned a minumin height they need to be at but you can still hear them.

Is this all to do with the new run way and testing the ground for how many people in a certain area will lodge a complaint

lovelyhurler

Don't think that this would have anything to do with the (as yet un-built) new runway.
A lot of it depends on weather conditions, preceding flight, final destination of flight, track to be used etc.
A lot of the traffic that ends up coming out over Ashbourne is destined for northern UK/Europe - so for all that traffic you would the same - if not more - that would do a 'left turn', and out over Dublin south/Wicklow.

I live in Ashbourne and don't find it 'intrusive'.
Normally the planes are between 6000 and 8000 feet up by the time they are over the village and the noise, in particular from newer aircraft, isn't too bad.
Maybe that's just me..............:cool:

upinthesky

download the app flightrader24 it will give you the planes flying above you and how high they are etc..

cubix

When the new runway comes into effect will you have two planes taking off side by side/same direction say out over the N2 with the one on the left banking left to go out over S/Dublin and the other right to do as now out over Meath

Irish Steve

There's not been any significant changes to the routes used for quite some time now, but what has changed in recent times is that there are now more heavy and large aircraft (A330 and 777 size) flying routes to the Middle East, which is a relatively recent development, and they are slower to climb due to being heavier on take off, and the engines are larger, so slightly different noise levels, and they come out over Ashbourne, whereas the majority of heavy aircraft are departing to the North Atlantic routes, and earlier in the day, and they don't come over Ashbourne in the same way.

I'm also living in Ashbourne, and while they are not intrusive, I have noticed things like the evening Emirates departure, simply because it is slightly lower than the smaller aircraft, so slightly noisier.

cubix

Irish Steve:
You could well be right but I still think the planes are turning sooner out the back of Ashbourne when taking off which is bringing them over the village as even going back 2years ago you wouldnt notice any planes passing at any height. Driving back up the N2 tonight I noticed them coming in over skerries/ Pilo way to head out the back of Ashbourne for the airport. One of the last times coming back from the UK at night we were as far up as Drogheda as I remember the lights on the new Boyne bridge, would this be the norm. At the end of the day I take it will only get busier around towns like Ashbourne as the airport tries to squeeze more in and out.

Funny you should mention Emirates, I think it was Thursday evening about 7pm and it was seriously low banking right over the village heading towards swords still climbing

Can anyone confirm what way the new runway will work .

Is there a set height planes need to be at when passing a town like Ashbourne

yannakis

Moving to Ashbourne towards the end of the year, and I believe the impact will only be "background noise". Hopefully someone with more experienced can enlighten us!

Here is a .pdf about the proposed flight paths once the North Runway becomes operational.

Irish Steve

The routings at the moment are slightly different, there is overnight resurfacing work being done on the main runway, so the secondary runway (16/34) so more North South, is being used from late evening until early morning, and that it putting a lot of traffic over Garristown and in to the runway, so very visible at low level from Ashbourne.

The new runway won't make a massive difference to the traffic patterns, the departures from the new runway will turn right or left as appropriate, the traffic turning right could end up being about a mile further north than the present traffic, a lot depends on the weight and speed of the aircraft, as that influences both the height and the radius of the turn, and the other factor is the "aiming point" over the Irish Sea, which varies depending on the departure route and onwards route across the UK.

Most of the time, the noise levels can be indeed be realistically described as "background", if I'm outdoors, there are times when high performance bikes on the Motorway that's the other side of the town are more noticeable than the overflying aircraft, but there are the occasional flights that I am aware of when indoors with no other background noises (like the TV) on, but it's not intrusive as such.

We've been here 25 years, and yes, there is more traffic over Ashbourne than there used to be, but that's down to the overall increase in air traffic at Dublin, and a significant increase in the number of routes that are in Northern and Eastern Europe or further east, which means they are taking a different route out from Dublin.

This will also sound strange, but the traffic direction out of Dublin is also influenced by the traffic direction into the London Area. If London is operating with a westerly departure, then most of the arrivals into that area are routed over towards Liverpool and then south, if London is Easterly departures, then the preferred route is South from Dublin towards St David's Head (Near Pembroke), so that can be a factor in the number of flights passing over here.

The average height crossing Ashbourne is probably around 9 or 10 thousand feet, but a heavy long range aircraft may be closer to 6000. If however there are landings on the Southerly runway, or they are operating on the easterly direction, then flights over Ashbourne can be as low as 1500 Ft (above sea level) , but most of the time, they are operating at low power levels when passing over here, as they are slowing for landing, but there can be the occasional flight (especially the transatlantic arrivals in the early hours of the morning if they are landing on the southerly runway) where they are still using power, so more noticeable.

cubix

Steve thanks for the in depth post, very interesting reading and will most likely need to read it again. It may be a simple case of how people use their living (inside/outside) spaces and as such there will be people who will not find any change. I would work from home quite a bit, so am most likely more sensitive when compared to someone who would work outside of Ashbourne and simply come home in the evening/weekends. Our kitchen would face S/W and where I can weather permitting I would normally have the patio door open as like the feeling of hearing the birds/ general outside noises etc. As you mention sometimes you would hear the motorway traffic along with other things.So taking on board that volumes/ different aircraft are being used this could be the reason I am noticing more noises but its the increased volume of traffic and in-turn noise but still feel they use to pass further north of Ashbourne and another reason they were not as noticeable.

Today as I type, due to wind direction it has been a steady stream of planes noise coming across from Ratoath/Ballybin-Millbourne and out over the village for UK/Europe

Irish Steve

Indeed, I'm also outdoors most of today, and there is a higher volume of traffic.

The departure route from the airport for the jets goes out from the main runway towards Clonee, the requirement is for them to go out to either 5 miles or 3000 Ft before turning, and then depending on their destination, they turn on to one of 4 continuation routes that take them in the direction of their ongoing route. For aircraft going towards the North of the UK, they turn onto a heading that takes then initially to a navigation aid that is about 3/4 of a mile north of the Swords road, and directly in line with the North South Runway, and then after that they go out towards Liverpool on a heading that's just a few degrees south of an Easterly course.

The smaller and quieter turbo prop aircraft turn much earlier (750 Ft) onto a different track, the idea being to ensure that they are separated from the faster jet traffic, so we don't tend to see many of them over Ashbourne.

The other thing that then affects this area is that there is a low level corridor that is used for very light aircraft and helicopters, not above 1000 Ft, in visual weather conditions, which is why we see things like the coastguard rescue helicopter and the like at low levels over the town.

Irish Steve

FWIW, the Aer Lingus A330 flight to Los Angeles flight came over Ashbourne at a very low level today, heading North, I suspect that the flight turned early during departure to avoid weather on the normal departure route, so it was lower and slower than most flights that pass over Ashbourne, and it was using a non standard departure route, which is possible when needed to avoid weather or other traffic.

cubix

That one passed straight over the house around lunch time.

Can anyone confirm how the new runway will be used, so when wind direction is correct will they come in over portmarnock on old runway and take off at the same time on the new runway or as mentioned previously will planes land/take off in the same direction on both runways simultaneously and in the case of take offs they simply bank left or right.

When the airport got its first concrete runway back in the 50's was it the E/W or N/S

Irish Steve

The new runway will be parallel to the existing main runway, so with westerly winds, the arriving flights will still come over the coast somewhere around Portmarnock.

At Heathrow, they operate most of the time by using one runway for arrivals, and the other for departures, and then switch runways at a given time each day. I don't know if that's the plan for Dublin, that level of detail has not yet been given out.

Having said that, there will be times when they will use both runways for departures, and for some aircraft, they will put arrivals in on to the "departure" runway at the same time as other aircraft are using the "arrival" runway, as that will allow them to handle smaller slower aircraft with less disruption to the flow of the faster and heavier jets, which is an issue at the moment.

For many years, the main runway at Dublin was 05/23, which was more south west facing, the normal approach to that was in over Rush, and departures went more over Finglas, it was replaced by 10/28, which is more East West in the early 90's, partly to enable the departing traffic to take a route that does not pass over heavily populated areas in the same way, and that direction also allowed a longer runway than had been previously available.

From a day to day basis, the new runway is unlikely to make a significant difference to the traffic passing over Ashbourne, if they use the new runway, they will be about a mile further north as they enter the turn to go back towards the Irish Sea, a lot will depend on if they keep the point near Swords as a "pass over" point in the route, to get back to that will mean more of a turn than at present, and it will be closer to traffic operating on the new runway, so that may change, it's not yet clear what the plan is.