this doesn't sound legal

bonaparte2

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/sports/nike-oregon-project-alberto-salazar-dathan-ritzenhein.html?action=click&contentCollection=Asia%20Pacific&module=Trending&version=Full&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

average_runner

bonaparte2 wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/sports/nike-oregon-project-alberto-salazar-dathan-ritzenhein.html?action=click&contentCollection=Asia%20Pacific&module=Trending&version=Full&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

It's old news and only allegations that they are struggling to prove.

bonaparte2

It was old allegations that did for Lance.

They'll struggle to prove them until they do prove them and then nike will throw their hands up and say how cheated they feel that Alberto was not squeaky clean like he said he was

." Ritzenhein’s experience, along with incidents involving several other athletes, were laid out in vivid detail in a confidential report written by the United States Anti-Doping Agency that was obtained by The New York Times."

johnruns

lol i doubt anyone believes in the nike groups.

average_runner

bonaparte2 wrote: »

It was old allegations that did for Lance.

They'll struggle to prove them until they do prove them and then nike will throw their hands up and say how cheated they feel that Alberto was not squeaky clean like he said he was

." Ritzenhein’s experience, along with incidents involving several other athletes, were laid out in vivid detail in a confidential report written by the United States Anti-Doping Agency that was obtained by The New York Times."

But there is nothing new here. Alot of this was released before. The project lives on the line but don't seem to of cross it. Evidence is lacking, even an ex coach statement is not doing much.

Lance was very different, he was beating drug cheats so it was obvious.

bonaparte2

Lance beat the rap time after time until USADA came along .

They nailed him . https://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/ReasonedDecision.pdf

Now USADA are going to do the same for Alberto using the same methodology .

adrian522

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155449155554875&set=a.10151321507974875.504022.502809874&type=3&theater

Post by Bob Anderson, founder of Runners world on dealing with Nike.

average_runner

"Nike was spending over a million dollars on ads then, our biggest advertiser. They went on the offensive and attacked me personally. They knew we had over two millions loyal readers and they did not want to attack RW. So they attacked the publisher, me."



Maybe Lance is working for them as sounds familiar!

livedadream

my reading of it is:
the project is working within the rules (very close to the line but within it)
morally ethically its wrong and it is performance enhancement but are we really supposed to believe that everyones not doing it?

i will cry the day mo farrah is outed though...  i trust that man!

bonaparte2

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/15310522.Susan_Egelstaff__Just_do_it____whatever_the_cost__New_Nike_Oregon_Project_findings_could_spell_the_end_for_Salazar/

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B12sfJ8SraVNTW9nU3puUklyRzQ/view

is the full 269 page report of usada

bonaparte2

livedadream wrote: »

my reading of it is:
the project is working within the rules (very close to the line but within it)
morally ethically its wrong and it is performance enhancement but are we really supposed to believe that everyones not doing it?

i will cry the day mo farrah is outed though... i trust that man!

mo is mentioned on page 268 to say no conclusive evidence and not addressed in detail in this interim report

walshb

Mo is 100 percent clean!

livedadream

They may all be clean but my worry is that their are towing a very very fine line between cleana dn unethical.
The Oregon project has someone who's job it is to review the doping rules and ensure they arnt breaking them and then working their 'treatments' around it.
the cycles of the thyroid drug and Vit D is unethical and not in the spirit of of the rules.
im not naive to think that it doesnt go on, he sleeps in the chamber thingi to ensure his red blood cells stay high and oxygenated but i dunno being associated with the programme isnt going to do him any favours.

walshb

livedadream wrote: »

They may all be clean but my worry is that their are towing a very very fine line between cleana dn unethical.
The Oregon project has someone who's job it is to review the doping rules and ensure they arnt breaking them and then working their 'treatments' around it.
the cycles of the thyroid drug and Vit D is unethical and not in the spirit of of the rules.
im not naive to think that it doesnt go on, he sleeps in the chamber thingi to ensure his red blood cells stay high and oxygenated but i dunno being associated with the programme isnt going to do him any favours.

Then there's a whole lot of stuff going on that could be termed unethical, whatever that means in relation to athletes and organisations trying to achieve their true potential.

They are breaking no rules and are striving to be great.....people trying to pi%s all over that are d1cks!

livedadream

walshb wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

They may all be clean but my worry is that their are towing a very very fine line between cleana dn unethical.
The Oregon project has someone who's job it is to review the doping rules and ensure they arnt breaking them and then working their 'treatments' around it.
the cycles of the thyroid drug and Vit D is unethical and not in the spirit of of the rules.
im not naive to think that it doesnt go on, he sleeps in the chamber thingi to ensure his red blood cells stay high and oxygenated but i dunno being associated with the programme isnt going to do him any favours.

Then there's a whole lot of stuff going on that could be termed unethical, whatever that means in relation to athletes and organisations trying to achieve their true potential.

They are breaking no rules and are striving to be great.....people trying to pi%s all over that are d1cks!

they are breaking the rules, did you even read the article? 
[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]“Salazar’s conduct here is patently calculating, misleading and dishonest,”[/font]
[font=georgia, times new roman, times, serif]the only reason they cant prove it is because he's refusing to supply the medical records he keeps, theyve gone to court to get him compelled to supply them. they proved he couldnt have possibly infused the amount he said in the time he said he did it.[/font]
[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]Antidoping rules prohibit “infusions and/or injections of more than 50 mL per 6 hour period except for those legitimately received in the course of hospital admissions, surgical procedures or clinical investigations.”[/font]
[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]Realizing that the procedure was a breach of antidoping rules, the report said, Salazar and Dr. Brown changed the infusion protocol[/font]

[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]he emailed one of the runners saying he had cleared it with the Usada[/font]
[font=georgia, "times new roman", times, serif]In its report, the antidoping agency said, “Salazar’s statement about always getting clearance with Usada ‘before doing anything’ is both ironic and inaccurate.”[/font]

average_runner

livedadream wrote: »

They may all be clean but my worry is that their are towing a very very fine line between cleana dn unethical.
The Oregon project has someone who's job it is to review the doping rules and ensure they arnt breaking them and then working their 'treatments' around it.
the cycles of the thyroid drug and Vit D is unethical and not in the spirit of of the rules.
im not naive to think that it doesnt go on, he sleeps in the chamber thingi to ensure his red blood cells stay high and oxygenated but i dunno being associated with the programme isnt going to do him any favours.

They are doing what most other setups are doing, living on the edge.
Maybe they are dirty but yet there is no evidence to prove it.

bonaparte2

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2017/05/usada-appears-highly-likely-6-nop-athletes-including-galen-rupp-dathan-ritzenhein-violated-anti-doping-rules/

Theres plenty of evidence to prove it

average_runner

bonaparte2 wrote: »

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2017/05/usada-appears-highly-likely-6-nop-athletes-including-galen-rupp-dathan-ritzenhein-violated-anti-doping-rules/

Theres plenty of evidence to prove it

Again, this came out in March 2016 and nothing has happened.

The article starts with "It appears highly likely" that does not match what you said above
"Theres plenty of evidence to prove it"

There appears to be something but not concrete otherwise they would of moved in on them.

livedadream

theres a difference between plenty of evidence and getting access to that evidence.
He's not letting his records be seen and we know he has removed pages from another athletics treatment records before.
They know he's up to no good they just need to catch him and prove it.

walshb

If Mo and some others truly believed that they were cheating they would not be with Salazar. Mo is both clean and honest. He has integrity.

People just always want there to be something wrong. They cannot just accept that some humans are brilliant as they are without needing to break rules.

Itziger

walshb wrote: »

If Mo and some others truly believed that they were cheating they would not be with Salazar. Mo is both clean and honest. He has integrity.

People just always want there to be something wrong. They cannot just accept that some humans are brilliant as they are without needing to break rules.

With all due respect, I think it's the other way around. Most of us would love to be able to trust. But if I were to go through a list of athletes and cyclists who I've admired and who subsequently failed tests or finally admitted to doping then we'd be here for a long time. I first started watching athletics back in the 70's as a child. I didn't know that the East Europeans, Russians and some Americans were dope fiends. I thought they were just brilliant. I didn't know that Sean Kelly and Stephen Roche were doping along with (roughly) 90% of their rivals. I loved watching them and still enjoy cycling but with fewer illusions.

So when some of us see athletes sailing mighty close to the wind and just about staying on the right side of the law while there are comments and pointers and question marks over their performances, well I'm sorry if I'm skeptical.

ThisRegard

People with integrity don't lie about their relationships with dodgy characters.

walshb

Itziger wrote: »

So when some of us see athletes sailing mighty close to the wind and just about staying on the right side of the law while there are comments and pointers and question marks over their performances, well I'm sorry if I'm skeptical.

Shouldn't every dedicated athlete be sailing close to the wind? If not then they really aren't dedicated enough.

Salazar's athletes are doing nothing extraordinary-unbelievable, and never have!

And comparing the 70s and 80 eras where there was eff all systems in place to detect PEDs to today and how much we have progressed is bogus. We have come on so much in terms of everything. These athletes are products, machines, full time workhorses. What is so "unbelievable" with what they are doing?

Itziger

It's not just the 70's and 80's and well you know it. 90's and noughties too. But now we're all good. Just great attitude to hard work.

Right.

walshb

Itziger wrote: »

It's not just the 70's and 80's and well you know it. 90's and noughties too. But now we're all good. Just great attitude to hard work.

Right.

Yes, 90s too, where EPO was rampant before they brought in decent testing for it in the late 90s...

Like I said, we have progressed so much in everything.

That includes the drugs being used to cheat, the tests being used to catch them, and the hard work and dedication/advancements/technologies to enable people to perform better...

PEDs will always be around and so will people who don't play by the rules..

Being overly suspicious and accusatory about almost every decent performance even after you have weighed it up just means that you don't truly understand the human mind and body.

Mo Farrah is playing by the rules, and if he's not then let's see it...

bonaparte2

Salazar’s conduct here is patently calculating, misleading and dishonest.

Thats damning , about Alberto Salazar. If he was above board, why would he mislead , why be dishonest?

His athletes cannot know what he was giving them , as he is misleading and dishonest.

His word is now worthless, and for his athletes to express confidence in him means they are flying in the face of this considered , evidence backed report by experienced investigators who are putting their own reputation on the line in making these statements.