Renting without a receipt.

Hadoopwagon

Hello,

I've been renting an apartment in Dublin for 3 months now.

The landlord and his wife are quite friendly and considering the price (1000eur/moth and semi-central location in a not so nice but not dangerous neighborhood) and the fact that the place is good enough for a 1-man studio I didn't think much about the legallity of it... after all the guys do seem to own a few buildings around the area, including the whole of the building I live in.

Now, my question is basically 5-fold:

a) Do I have a right to receive a receipt when paying rent and is it illegal for me not to have said receipt ? If not a receipt should I receive any other from of aknowledgement for my "purchase" ?

b) Can I check anywhere if my landlord is paying taxes on the rent/property ? Or check if he is even registered as the landlord / the true owner of the property ?

c) Assuming that I don't have a receipt but I do have a contract (not approved by any notary, just a written agreement) could the landlord claim I did not pay rent after X months and force me to pay said rent ?

d) Assuming that the conditions under which I'm renting the place are not legal, or at least not legal under terms of renting (e.g. I could claim I'm simply living here as a guest) would I be eligible for things like healthcare, irish-citizenship and other benefits that might befell one that can claim he lives or lived in Ireland.

e) Assuming that the conditions under which I'm living might not be legal, how could I find out for sure ? Would going to a state-run organization to tell them about this problem automatically make me a fiscal-criminal and force me to pay certain fines ?

... I'd hate to have to leave the place, since I've made it quite nice a cossy and finding a studio to rent without any recommendations for anything bellow 1.7-2.5k/month seems to be a very complicate business...

Wesser

Hadoopwagon wrote: »

Hello,

I've been renting an apartment in Dublin for 3 months now.

The landlord and his wife are quite friendly and considering the price (1000eur/moth and semi-central location in a not so nice but not dangerous neighborhood) and the fact that the place is good enough for a 1-man studio I didn't think much about the legallity of it... after all the guys do seem to own a few buildings around the area, including the whole of the building I live in.

Now, my question is basically 5-fold:

a) Do I have a right to receive a receipt when paying rent and is it illegal for me not to have said receipt ? If not a receipt should I receive any other from of aknowledgement for my "purchase" ?


Are transferring the money electronically or in cash?
If electronic then no receipt needed
If cash then yes I would request a receipt.

b) Can I check anywhere if my landlord is paying taxes on the rent/property ? Or check if he is even registered as the landlord / the true owner of the property ?

You can check he is registered on the prbt website.
Taxation matters in Ireland are private.

c) Assuming that I don't have a receipt but I do have a contract (not approved by any notary, just a written agreement) could the landlord claim I did not pay rent after X months and force me to pay said rent ?

Hence you should either pay electronically or else get a receipt for cash.

d) Assuming that the conditions under which I'm renting the place are not legal, or at least not legal under terms of renting (e.g. I could claim I'm simply living here as a guest) would I be eligible for things like healthcare, irish-citizenship and other benefits that might befell one that can claim he lives or lived in Ireland.


Assuming there is an illegality in your contract this has no bearing whatsoever on your claim to healthcare or citizenship they are totally unrelated activities.


e) Assuming that the conditions under which I'm living might not be legal, how could I find out for sure ? Would going to a state-run organization to tell them about this problem automatically make me a fiscal-criminal and force me to pay certain fines ?


You could go to the prbt website to check if your contract is legal. There are no fines for doing so.


... I'd hate to have to leave the place, since I've made it quite nice a cossy and finding a studio to rent without any recommendations for anything bellow 1.7-2.5k/month seems to be a very complicate business...

Well then if you love it stop asking wierd questions about legality and citizenship etc and just get on with it

Victor

Hadoopwagon wrote: »

a) Do I have a right to receive a receipt when paying rent and is it illegal for me not to have said receipt ?

Generally 'yes'.

If not a receipt should I receive any other from of aknowledgement for my "purchase" ?

You could ask for a statement.

b) Can I check anywhere if my landlord is paying taxes on the rent/property ?

No.

Or check if he is even registered as the landlord /

You can check if the property is registered as a rental here: https://www.rtb.ie/tenants/is-my-tenancy-registered- The obligation is on the landlord to register, not the tenant.

the true owner of the property ?

http://www.prai.ie/land-registry-services/

c) Assuming that I don't have a receipt but I do have a contract (not approved by any notary,

Notary not needed

just a written agreement) could the landlord claim I did not pay rent after X months and force me to pay said rent ?

That is a risk.

d) Assuming that the conditions under which I'm renting the place are not legal, or at least not legal under terms of renting (e.g. I could claim I'm simply living here as a guest)

Note that any irregularity on behalf of the landlord doesn't affect your rights.

would I be eligible for things like healthcare,

Everyone is eligible for healthcare, but may have to pay. Eligibility for free healthcare will depend on things like citizenship and contributions to the tax system. Your rental situation does not affect your healthcare. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/

irish-citizenship and other benefits that might befell one that can claim he lives or lived in Ireland.

Claiming Irish citizenship is completely unrelated to your renting situation. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/

e) Assuming that the conditions under which I'm living might not be legal, how could I find out for sure ?

Renting, in normal circumstances is perfectly legal. See above for checks you can do.

Would going to a state-run organization to tell them about this problem automatically make me a fiscal-criminal and force me to pay certain fines ?

The only situation where a tenant could end up breaking the law, purely out of renting a property, would be if the landlord lived outside Ireland and the tenant didn't withhold tax and give it to Revenue.

Hadoopwagon

@Wesser

I see no problems about asking question on an anonymous online form.

After all, even if the rent is "shady" from a legal/tax standpoint I'd at least like to know the ground on which I am standing.

Worst comes to worst I might have to make a decision between going home and going home & getting a scummy landlord into trouble, tbh I'd prefer the later

TheChizler

Why do you think it's shady? Are you paying cash and have no proof of payment or something?

Hadoopwagon

@TheChizler

I've paid both cash and debit, but yes, I'm somewhat afraid of the lack of proof for the payment.
Than again, it might be equally hard to prove I actually "lived" in the place if they guys went around scamming people that way... and they do seem a tiny bit to nice a lot to do that, though you never know.

Its also just general paranoia, though I guess considering city center is full of single-flats occupied by 5-10 people at once it could be way worst

Victor

You can prove you lived there by receiving post there - especially if it is froma
utility company or government agency.

Hadoopwagon wrote: »

I've paid both cash and debit

If you've paid by debit, it is less likely that they are evading tax.

Hadoopwagon

Ok, I'm back home and I did a quick check of the resources people gave me and I believe I can now ask for the proper advice with the proper information:

I checked both www.landdirect.ie and https://www.rtb.ie/tenants/is-my-tenancy-registered- I've deduced that a:

a) -> The property that I'm living on is not publicly registered (but that seems to be the case for the vast majority of properties in Dublin)
b) -> The property I'm living on is not registered with the RTB

I assume this basically means that I am "paying" to a landlord that is evading taxes.

Now, mind you, I believe it might be quite hard and useless to go to the authorities about this so my plan is to look for a new apartment to rent and/or share at my leasure and keep living here... after all the legality of the whole situation seems to be in the same shady are as room sharing and there seem to be more or less no laws that say I can't stay in an apartment I'm not officially renting (Indeed I've even had the place registered for banking, taxes... etc).

However I might be in more danger than I think... or this might be common practice here and I might not be aware of it (I know that in certain countries its almost the norm for properties to not be registered and instead to have landlords bribe various local inspectors a certain amount/month or year). So any advice is welcome.

On one hand I'd hate to have to up my rent by 200-300 to get a less shadier place (considering this one is overall quite nice) on the other hand I'd prefer to spend a few bucks to sleep more comfortably at night. Then again, I'd have to factor in things like the possibility of losing my deposit over this and so on...

So yeah, any advice is more than welcome ^^.... A nice bonus question would be if it would help me in any way to record the monetary transactions (e.g. as proof that I paid), or would that be illegal without the prior written consent of both parties ?

Lady is a tramp

Why does it matter to you whether or not your landlord is tax compliant? Surely that's their own business?

TheChizler

The RTB database is patchy at best. I've never found a property I was renting in it even though I had received letters from them saying I was registered. Have you ever received a letter from the RTB? Whether you are or not you still have the same rights and protections so I wouldn't worry too much. You are renting the whole property aren't you?

Tax has nothing to do with you unless the landlord is living abroad. Is this the case?

Wesser

Why would you assume that if you are not on the prbt website that the landlord is not paying tax?

Wether or not the landlord pays tax or not does not affect the safety or stability if your rental.sccomodation.
Forget about the landlord paying tax is my advice.just forget it altogether.

ED E

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

Why does it matter to you whether or not your landlord is tax compliant? Surely that's their own business?

Thats the attitude that has this country in such a state..... Probably for politics though.

Dial Hard

ED E wrote:

Thats the attitude that has this country in such a state.

While I agree with you somewhat on that statement, the fact is that the landlord's tax compliance has absolutely no bearing on the legality of the OP's tenancy, which for some reason they appear to think it does.

OP, you have a lease by the sounds of things. There's your legal document, the landlord has to abide by it whether he's paying tax or not. Just pay your rent by bank transfer so you have a record of it and forget all these rather bizarre reasons for moving you seem to be fixated on.

Hadoopwagon

Dial Hard wrote: »

While I agree with you somewhat on that statement, the fact is that the landlord's tax compliance has absolutely no bearing on the legality of the OP's tenancy, which for some reason they appear to think it does.

OP, you have a lease by the sounds of things. There's your legal document, the landlord has to abide by it whether he's paying tax or not. Just pay your rent by bank transfer so you have a record of it and forget all these rather bizarre reasons for moving you seem to be fixated on.

The think I was uncertain about its if its my responsability or not to make sure the landlord is paying taxes. If its not I don't give a tosh about it really... I mean, politically speaking I might or might not care about such things, but in a housing market like this I really don't care much about the moral implications of my lodging.

The other thing I'm afraid of is the landlord trying to scam me by saying I didn't pay rent for 12 months after I move from the place (since I don't have statements or receipts for the times I paid cash)... I will try avoiding this by just paying debit from now or asking for a statement, but I'm still unsure if this is even a possibility or not... e.g would there be any validity to a court case of a landlord saying "Yeah, I let him stay without complaint for 12 months but he didn't pay me now I want 10 grand back ?" ?

Mind you I don't think the landlord is a scammer, but its a large amount of money and I'd rather be 100% sure on all things.

pilly

ED E wrote:

Thats the attitude that has this country in such a state..... Probably for politics though.

So you do think you can ask any self employed person to show you their tax return?

Nothing to do with politics. We don't and can't go around looking at our neighbours tax returns. That job is down to the revenue.

Victor

TheChizler wrote: »

The RTB database is patchy at best. I've never found a property I was renting in it even though I had received letters from them saying I was registered.

That may be down to landlords being inventive with addresses. Eircode should solve that somewhat.

pilly

Hadoopwagon wrote:

Mind you I don't think the landlord is a scammer, but its a large amount of money and I'd rather be 100% sure on all things.

The easiest way around the whole lot of it is to pay by bank transfer every month. Problem solved.

ED E

pilly wrote: »

So you do think you can ask any self employed person to show you their tax return?

Nothing to do with politics. We don't and can't go around looking at our neighbours tax returns. That job is down to the revenue.

Mods: Sorry for slight OT, but crime and legal are intertwined.

If you see somebody smashing up a neighbours car, would you call the Gardai?

If you know Johnny next door is evading tax big time, you wouldn't call Revenue? People seem to imagine that physical crimes need to be reported but fraud can always be magically detected.

Take some civic, social or whatever responsibility you want, but Revenue are not omnipotent. Neither are DSFW.


I'd be a fan of the Finnish model, your tax return being a matter of public record.