Compensation Legal Fee

caratt1

Hi,

I was hoping someone on here would have some experience in this and may be able to help.

I was recently (9 months ago) rear ended and my car was a write off. I was knocked unconscious at the time and taken to hospital afterwards.

The value of the car was all settled quite quickly by the other persons insurance but I had medical bills so upon advice I thought it best to hire a solicitor to seek compensation for these.

I got in contact with a solicitor and he was very happy to take my case, we never discussed a fee (in hindsight this was silly). Thankfully I had no loss of earnings and my medical fees weren't over the top so it has been settled very quickly.

My question now is, the solicitor has just emailed me with the settlement letter from the insurance company. I don't want to reply until I know where I stand. Do I pay the solicitor from my settlement or does the insurance company pay the solicitor?

I apologise if this seems like a silly question but I'm unsure where I stand and we never discussed a fee beforehand.

Thanks in advance for any advice

Tefral

caratt1 wrote: »

Hi,

I was hoping someone on here would have some experience in this and may be able to help.

I was recently (9 months ago) rear ended and my car was a write off. I was knocked unconscious at the time and taken to hospital afterwards.

The value of the car was all settled quite quickly by the other persons insurance but I had medical bills so upon advice I thought it best to hire a solicitor to seek compensation for these.

I got in contact with a solicitor and he was very happy to take my case, we never discussed a fee (in hindsight this was silly). Thankfully I had no loss of earnings and my medical fees weren't over the top so it has been settled very quickly.

My question now is, the solicitor has just emailed me with the settlement letter from the insurance company. I don't want to reply until I know where I stand. Do I pay the solicitor from my settlement or does the insurance company pay the solicitor?

I apologise if this seems like a silly question but I'm unsure where I stand and we never discussed a few beforehand.

Thanks in advance for any advice

Your solicitior should have built his fee into the claim as it is a cost to you.

caratt1

Thank you for your response, it's much appreciated. So the compensation that was emailed to me is or isn't including his fee?

The letter says "we are prepared to offer your client €.. in settlement". I'm not sure if I have to pay the solicitor out of that or not?

_Brian

caratt1 wrote: »

Thank you for your response, it's much appreciated. So the compensation that was emailed to me is or isn't including his fee?

The letter says "we are prepared to offer your client ?.. in settlement". I'm not sure if I have to pay the solicitor out of that or not?

Ask.
Solicitor is working for you, don't be afraid to ask anything.

Mr. Incognito

Contact your solicitor and ask to see a section 68 or aka letter of engagement letter setting out the fees. If he hasn't sent you this and fees are disputed he's not entitled to be paid. Fairly sloppy practice

caratt1

Thank you all,

I didn't want to contact him until I knew where I stood.

I should have definitely asked about the fee, it was pretty silly on my part, in fact I have signed nothing with this solicitor.

caratt1

I have just spoken to the solicitor and his fee is €2,500.

I'm not sure how he has come to that amount, I realise I am paying for his time, experience and expertise but €2,500 seems excessive when there were no major costs or volumes of work involved. I provided the hospital and physio reports, he did make a phone call to my GP to get a report but at no point was I under the impression all of this would amount to €2,500.

I'm not really sure what to say to this, I realised it was a straight forward case initally but thought it best to get a solicitor involved to speed it up, I never realise it would cost so much. I was also under the impression that most or all of your costs, including legal fees, will be paid by the other party?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

caratt1

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Thank you for this.

Does the amount of €2,500 seem excessive to you or should I be ahppy to accept? At no point did I think it would be so expensive. I was already in contact with their insurance and sorting the cost of the car was only a matter of a few simple emails.

I only spoke with my solicitor over the phone or through email (2 phone calls and 4-5 emails) there was the injuries board documentation and there was only a phone call to my GP so it wouldn't have consumed a whole lot of hours but maybe this is the norm and I'm just being tight...

brian_t

caratt1 wrote: »

Thank you for this.

Does the amount of ?2,500 seem excessive to you or should I be ahppy to accept? At no point did I think it would be so expensive. I was already in contact with their insurance and sorting the cost of the car was only a matter of a few simple emails.

I only spoke with my solicitor over the phone or through email (2 phone calls and 4-5 emails) there was the injuries board documentation and there was only a phone call to my GP so it wouldn't have consumed a whole lot of hours but maybe this is the norm and I'm just being tight...

You thanked post #5 but did you get a such a letter.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/27/section/68/enacted/en/html

caratt1

brian_t wrote: »

You thanked post #5 but did you get a such a letter.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/27/section/68/enacted/en/html

Sorry Brian,

No I never received any letter or any communication outlining a fee or any rough estimate. In hindsight should have asked, I was also somewhat under the impression that the insurance company took care of the legal fees.

I'm unsure as how to proceed, my solicitor was very helpful so I don't want to be ungrateful but at the same time they're charging €2,500 for a relatively straightforward and minimal hassle case that I probably could and should have done myself considering the settlement amount.

Ultimate Seduction

Sounds about right. I have a compensation claim pending and solicitor told me it's 2,500 regardless of whatever amount I am awarded.

Victor

Tell solicitor that you are happy to accept X, net of their fees.

McCrack

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Contact your solicitor and ask to see a section 68 or aka letter of engagement letter setting out the fees. If he hasn't sent you this and fees are disputed he's not entitled to be paid. Fairly sloppy practice

Thats a misconception. Absence of a S68 letter does not in fact prevent a solicitor from being paid.

caratt1

Victor wrote: »

Tell solicitor that you are happy to accept X, net of their fees.

I'm just wondering what would be a fair fee? I don't want to come across unappreciative. They did handle my case with no hassle, I just think €2,500 is a bit extreme for 2 phone calls, a few emails and submitting a document, also taking into consideration the compensation amount is under €10,000.

Does anyone on here have any experience in this area or know what a fair and reasonable fee would be?

Thanks again for the replies

myshirt

2.5k is an absolute bargain op. This solicitor sounds like an idiot to be honest. Must not be making much, or maybe a very decent person and I owe them an apology.

2.5k is a bargain. Smashing value.

caratt1

myshirt wrote: »

2.5k is an absolute bargain op. This solicitor sounds like an idiot to be honest. Must not be making much, or maybe a very decent person and I owe them an apology.

2.5k is a bargain. Smashing value.

Really?? €2,500 is smashing value for what amounted to no more than 3 hours work?

I understand I'm also paying for his experience and expertise but this was a process I could have done myself, I was advised that getting a solicitor involved would speed up the process but I certainly wouldn't have if I thought they would be getting almost half

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

mrsbeebee

I think the offer is low tbh if under €10k and you were knocked out!

myshirt

caratt1 wrote: »

Really?? €2,500 is smashing value for what amounted to no more than 3 hours work?

I understand I'm also paying for his experience and expertise but this was a process I could have done myself, I was advised that getting a solicitor involved would speed up the process but I certainly wouldn't have if I thought they would be getting almost half

Seriously smashing value. Take it. It's the solicitors problem to deal with if undercharging like that.

Snap it up. The only thing more ill-advised than that solicitor undercharging like that would be for you to push back and complain about it. To do that would really be facepalm stuff. You'll find yourself at the taxing master, and a much higher fee. Take it, and let it be a lesson to that solicitor.

Really smashing value there. Best wishes in your recovery.

NUTLEY BOY

OP please bear in mind that there are 3 elements to a solicitor's charges and the final bill that you receive ;

1. The instructions fee PLUS
2. Outlays PLUS
3. VAT @ 23 % item 1.

So, your €2,500 could become €3,075 plus the outlays which could get you close to €3,500. €10,000 minus €3,500 = €6,500. No thanks.

I would ask the solicitor if the insurers offered to pay costs and outlays in addition to the offered damages of €10,000. Despite others' correct observations about entitlement to recover costs insurers might well pay the costs if they were getting an overall bargain that would kill this case. If the €10,000 is a global offer it sounds like a poor bargain.

If insurers pay your solicitor's costs in full - on a party and party basis - there is no justification for sending you the same bill as that is double billing. Your solicitor would be entitled to bill you for any solicitor and client items that were not recovered on the party and party costs.

If you don't trust your solicitor ring the insurers off the record and ask them if the offer was for damages and costs or a global/ all-in settlement proposal. That might reveal a lot.

In relation to the instructions fee that should reflect the amount of work done and the complexity of the case. This is an assessment of damages only. If €10,000 is a fair reflection of the true value of the case it falls well within the jurisdiction of the lowest court i.e. the District Court - jurisdiction €15,000.

Party and party costs are those necessarily and directly incurred in bringing (or defending) a case. Solicitor and client costs are those remnants that are not recoverable as party and party costs.

+1 other observations about PIAB but I am just reacting to the actual position in which you find yourself. Just for my amusement, please tell me that your solicitor informed you that you did not need to engage him and you could have dealt directly with PIAB and that you would not be entitled to recover cover costs from any other party . BTW, when was the matter of €2,500 first announced to you ?

P.S. If a District Court case is that scale costs ?

tombren

I'm just reading all of the replies here and i guess i am just appealing to all the people who have posted incorrect information to ensure that you know what you're talking about before giving your views as i'm sure the OP is confused enough already. Just to clarify a few points;

1. "Your solicitor should have built his fee into the claim as it is a cost to you"

This is not the way costs work. Yes every PI Summons will make a general claim for costs but there is no way to ascertain what those costs will be until after a matter is finalized. There are two main types of costs 1. solicitor & client 2. party & party. I won't go into the details of them but basically you will rarely (if ever) recover full costs from the other side.

2. "If he hasn't sent you this (a s68 letter) and fees are disputed he's not entitled to be paid".

Someone else has already covered this point but this is not true. A lack of a s68 letter does not disentitle a solicitor to a fee but it may be taken into account by the Taxing Master on Taxation and he may make a reduction to fees to reflect this.

3. "It is only if you won in court would a judge order them to pay your costs in
addition to what you are awarded"

Again this is not true. Most/many settlements between parties at various stages of proceedings from the very beginning right up to the steps of court are X amount plus costs to the plaintiff.

In terms of the actual fee of €2,500.00, you could ask your solicitor for a breakdown of the work done and time spent on the file and ask him for a s68 letter. I don't think you said whether you did your on PIAB application or whether it was handled by the Solicitor. If it was handled by the Solicitor unfortunately, you will have to pay him for this work as PIAB work is not recoverable from the other side. Usually Solicitors charge about €1,250.00 - €1,500.00 plus VAT and outlay for this work.

If it was necessary to then issue proceedings and deal with the other side to settle, it's easy to see how the fee could be €2,500.00.

Probably most importantly (and already covered by Nutley Boy) you should ask how the matter settled. If it settled for €10,000.00 'all in' then there are no additional fees to be recovered from the other side for your costs and you will have to pay your solicitor from the €10k. You could always ask would he take a lower fee.

If it settled for €10,000.00 plus costs, then the other side should be discharging most of your costs (but not for any PIAB work). As i said earlier, these type of costs (party & party) will rarely if ever be a full indemnity and there will usually be a shortfall that may have to come out of your settlement.

Nutley boy - re District Court scale, likely that it would apply on a party & party basis but the scale doesn't apply to solicitor and client costs.

Victor

myshirt wrote: »

2.5k is an absolute bargain op. This solicitor sounds like an idiot to be honest. Must not be making much, or maybe a very decent person and I owe them an apology.

2.5k is a bargain. Smashing value.

There's a few posts like this and they seem ... off.

Whatever about it being a bargain if it had gone to court, that is not the case and things seem to have been quite straightforward. Legal fees should represent costs legitimately incurred, regardless of award.