Bren is getting neutered, nurtured, and a friend

hairyslug

I have 2 questions, bren is off to get the snip next week, anything we can do to prepare for him coming home to make it easier. How long until he is back his normal self.

Also, we visited a rescue centre today and he made a new friend, while both dogs are quite submissive, bren seems to be slightly more confident but they are both happy in each others company. What is the best way to prepare for the new arrival. I work from home so I will be there with them to make sure she settles in but are there any tips or tricks to make sure that it all goes smoothly.

Ms Doubtfire1

Bren will be groggy for a few hours/half day but should be very much back to normal by the end of the day - nothing to prepare for, he'll be fine.
Re new arrival? Well, firstly, do NOT leave them alone together for a while (at least 2-3 month) until they are totally at ease with each other.Always separate them if you go out for a longer time.Make sure each have their assigned spot where their bed stands and their own spot to eat. Lots of walkies so they can play and get at ease which each other. other than that..enjoy.
And thanks for adopting!!!:D

aonb

Bren will be fine - Ive always had my dogs neutered, and they're pretty much over it by the end of next day. Unless Bren is a total wuss (my youngest dog is) which means that he will feel totally sorry for himself, requiring lots of snuggling, TLC, treats, and general fussing over for a day or so. Keep an eye on him licking his stitches - Ive never used cones as I think it stresses the dog too much, use a soft homemade collar instead. The worst part is when they come home groggy, and disorientated from the anaesthetic, but thats over quickly.

What breed is Bren?
What breed is his new friend?
Maybe better to wait for her to arrive a few days after his op?
You could bring an old jumper/rag that Bren has slept on for a few days to the shelter and put it in her bed, and ask the shelter to do the same for Bren to have something with her scent on. Also, if you reserve her, you could ask the shelter if you can take the two of them for a walk together a couple times before she moves in.

Very best of luck to you all - great that you're rescuing her - photos please!

hairyslug

Brendan is a staffy lurcher and he's a big wuss and I can imagine him feeling very sorry for himself, he's going in for the op in a few weeks.
The centre have asked that we take lucky as soon as possible, it frees up a space for them and we don't mind her arriving slightly earlier than we had planned. We had a great meet with her today and the two dogs seemed to get on really well together. We have another meet tomorrow just to make sure and all going well she'll be with us for the weekend.

Thanks for the tip about the blanket, will bring it along.

While I understand them having separate food bowls, is it ok to use a communal water bowl, bren has in the past never had an issue using other dogs bowls (but I suppose I don't know how he'll feel if it's his bowl).

I really can't wait, it's like Christmas Eve, I have been dropping hints to my wife since we got Brendan to get him a friend.

aonb

What breed is lucky?
Lurcher/staff mix sounds fab - photo for sure please! Being a staffy, not surprised hes gentle and happy to have a friend - staffs are such fabulous dogs. Ive never met a bad one
She should be settled before he has his op then

All our animals share a water bowl.

I think the 'fear' with food bowls is if there is a dog in the mix who is food-centric, and might be aggressive when its feeding time. Again, Ive never had an issue with any of my dogs/their friends and food. Too happy to be getting fed to care about what the others are doing. Test the waters with your new girl - keep an eagle eye on them. Feed in the same room for the first day, see what the reaction is. It may be yumyumeatmedinner and thats it. But if someone is looking a bit protective of their bowl, move them apart.

When she arrives, give them both treats and more treats. Make it a happy experience. Lots of fun and fuss. Leave the feed time til later, when everyone is tired and relaxed. She'll be a bit worried for a time. I reckon it takes 2-3 weeks for a fairly confident dog to relax in a new home. Longer for a timid/stressed dog.

Keep Bren in his routine as much as possible, and she'll adapt to his routine. Routine is very important to dogs. Lots of gentle voices, lots of little bits of play and exercise and walks. Remove any possible causes of problems - favourite toys, blankets, sticks, balls til you see how they go. Separate beds, a few of them if possible. Certainly sleep separately for the first few nights til you see how they go.

Let them lead you - if all is going well then fabulous, if theres wobbly bits, let them be apart for a break, and back together again after a time-out, with a treat etc. Keep us posted!

hairyslug

Lucky (soon to be Lucy) arrived this morning, all good so far, a little bit of humping but there dont appear to be any problems, a small jump when a food toy was introduced but that was quickly taken away, they have no problems sharing the bowls but she seems slightly more dominant. Trying to get decent photos are a bit difficult.

hairyslug

Lucky (soon to be Lucy) arrived this morning, all good so far, a little bit of humping but there dont appear to be any problems, a small jump when a food toy was introduced but that was quickly taken away, they have no problems sharing the bowls but she seems slightly more dominant. Trying to get decent photos are a bit difficult.

hairyslug

Is it playing or fighting?

Both dogs will happily eat and drink beside each other, will wait at the door beside each other, generally wander around the house and they are fine in each others company.

When we go outside, things change. It starts with Brendan doing what all male dogs will try and do and if Lucy is busy with a toy she will ignore him until he gets to into it. That's when the chasing starts, from what I can see Brendan is playing, bouncing his paws up and down, jumping around and generally being chased by Lucy. For all the chasing, there are constant snarls and showing of teeth but they keep in coming back for more.
If I get concerned, I bring them inside and 2 minutes later, they are back at the door waiting to go out again.
She has connected with her teeth a few times, on his cheek and neck but he doesn't seem to mind.

3dogs

Getting a video would be a good idea if you are concerned, it is easier to be able to comment having seen what you are talking about.

I will say mine sound vicious when they are playing,really scary and there is loads of teeth and snarls. So long as they are breaking apart every now and then and both look happy to go back in and go again then it should be ok

aonb

So who's instigating the play? I think you said Brendan is twice Lucy's weight? Is he humping her, then she starts chasing him - I wasnt sure what you meant - I would distract him from that if its setting the tone for the play/chasing. I know you said he's going to be neutered in a few weeks, but it can become a bit of a habit too. Is Lucy neutered?

They have to learn how to play together, set boundaries for each other, bitches will usually be more likely to be higher in the pecking order - she probably setting some standards/boundaries now, while everything is new. If he's twice her weight, she'll have to put some manners on him to show him what she considers acceptable... its all going to be a learning experience for the next few weeks. How old are they both?

hairyslug

Yeah bren (12 months) is a lot heavier than Lucy (7 months), she's been spayed, he's in just over a week for his bits.

The majority of the time playing will start off with them going out together and doing their own thing in the garden, eventually, bren would try it on and she would shrug him off until she has had enough and starts getting snappy. This is where Im not sure if they are playing, Brendan will be on the back foot and she will be chasing him, snarling starts (no barking unless Lucy is excited) tails are waggy and no heckles. But she is definitely showing teeth. I seperate them, they go their own way and 2 minutes later she's making the move to play with him.

Once the rain stops, I'll try and get a video of them. At the moment they are passed out in bed.

aonb

ok, so both still very young teens... lots of learning to do, for both.

If you look at both dogs when the play is going on - are they "loose" and moving - not rigid/stiff. Where are their ears - ears are a great signpost - faces open, loose? when a dog gets rigid/stiff, ears forward, mouths 'set' things might be getting a bit serious. As long as ears are back/fluidity, bouncing, and relaxed muscles, its usually play. Is there any 'bowing' to start - one dog plants front legs flat on the ground - bow - to announce playtime? In these early stages while Lucy is being introduced, you dont want one dog to become worried by too much rough play by the other. Snarling and teeth are all part of play, and play can be a great learning of the other dogs personality in these very early days.

I have a terrier x who is just crap at play, with other males. Hes never got the whole play thing really. Hes a bit "special needs" I think! He will play with bitches now and then, but gets really worried with dogs, especially unneutered dogs, he doesnt seem to be able to translate the signals from other dogs I fostered a huge hairy lurcher a while back. Complete goofy nutter. Lovely dog. He played all day long - didnt care who it was with - didnt notice when signals started to change, and didnt know when to back off and just STOP! All very different and interesting personalities. We humans need to watch and learn.

heres some interesting articles:

https://positively.com/dog-training/understanding-dogs/understanding-dog-play/

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/pets/dog-behavior/how-can-you-tell-when-dogs-are-playing-or-fighting

http://thebark.com/content/your-dogs-rough-play-appropriate

hairyslug

Below is an example of them playing it ended with bren standing Lucy and her lieing in the ground, she's grand though, just a yelp and a bit of a scare (for me more than her I think)

Play was started by both with bren lowering Jim self and her chasing back.

Sorry I can't embed, I'm on mobile.

https://youtu.be/JrllRzZQS24

bmwguy

She is going in with teeth for sure but it's not aggressive. He is a big boy anyway. Just a bit of time with them with training. Can't see a huge issue if they are trained not to use the teeth. He was enjoying the play. They are still puppies so plenty of time.

DBB

It's okay op... But for my liking there's a tad too much intensity in the chasing, from her side, not his. He's managing things well, but she's just a wee bit too intense more-or-less throughout.
When dogs are playing, the real, true key to whether all is well is reciprocation... One dog matches what the other is doing, sometimes simultaneously, sometimes alternating one after the other.
So, when dogs are chasing... You'd like to see some alternation going on. Or, that they'd take regular breaks where the chasing stops, they stand panting for a few moments, before starting again. There's no alternation between your two, it's all her. She's also not allowing him to slow it all down or stop. Now, he also looks to enjoy being chased, but there were a few moments there where he looked like he wanted it to stop, wanted a break... But she was just a bit too relentless.... Perhaps because she's pissed at the humping.
Don't get me wrong op... There's nothing very worrying going on there, but I would be inclined to intervene regularly by calling the dogs to you, giving them a pet or a few words, then let them off again if they both want. If one of them takes the opportunity to go back inside or away from the action, let them.

hairyslug

Thanks for all of the advice, the playing in the video went on longer than normal, I didnt intervene so that I could give you a good idea as to what happens. There are times when they both stop and have a rest, others when he chases her (it may start with him chasing her but it always ends with her chasing him) but the video would be the more regular play.
The strange thing is that while she is happy to chase him, she is the one more likely to go inside before him.

DBB

hairyslug wrote: »

The strange thing is that while she is happy to chase him, she is the one more likely to go inside before him.

I know you mightn't mean "happy" in the sense that she's enjoying chasing him... But just to clarify, I don't feel she's chasing him entirely in the name of fun. Not in that video anyway. There's just an edge of irritation with her.
Your saying she's likely to break off and go inside first supports this.

hairyslug

Just wondering what people's opinions on using water as a deterrent. It seems to have calmed down Brendan's humping has decreased since I've sprayed water at him. She is more than likely to break away from a snap if water is sprayed. Neither dog seems to phased by the water and are happy to going back to playing or doing their own thing.

I have tried treats (when we first got bren he responded really well to rewards) but it is impossible to get their undivided attention if they are bouncing around.

DBB

I wouldn't advocate it op... There are too many things that can go wrong when you start introducing aversives... I know a squirt of water may not seem horrendous, and in the big scheme of things it's not the worst, but it clearly is having an aversive effect on the dogs if it's working!
Have you tried getting animated, fun, and interesting yourself to draw their attention to you?
I would also, for a few days, attach a lead or long line to his collar (strictly under supervision only) so that you can put a prompt stop to him even starting to hump. Allowing it get going at all will be very reinforcing for him.
Also, just bear in mind that in this scenario, humping is less likely to be a sexual thing, but more anxiety-driven, because he's feeling a bit muddled and confused about events... On that note, use of aversives can only make anxiety worse.

aonb

hmnnn, spraying water on them is a bit of a negative action.

A bit of training starting on your part is probably needed now. You need to get them to respond to you when you give them a command. This is the not-fun bit - tons of patience and hard work required. Lucy is settling in, and hopefully getting used to/relaxed with her humans, time to set the rules of the house, and time to teach them that when you give a command it needs to be obeyed. My husband claps his hands loudly 3 times to get attention when something naughty is going on. I use cross sounding NO! Then call the culprit to you. When s/he comes, you could say NO! again, maybe SIT! to assert that you have his/her attention, serves too as a bit of time-out, then a quick ear-scratch, and back to business. Im sure the more knowledgeable behaviourists will be along with more advice. Having reliable recall is really important - for the dogs safety especially.

hairyslug

Since writing the water post, I made a thing out of foodholders, dry rice in one part, small treats in another, a quick shake seems to be doing the trick in distracting them for now. They are slightly calmer with each other now but I'll be in with mucky hounds as soon as I can to fix me.

tk123

Have you tried a squeaky toy to help get their attention?

DBB

hairyslug wrote: »

Since writing the water post, I made a thing out of foodholders, dry rice in one part, small treats in another, a quick shake seems to be doing the trick in distracting them for now. They are slightly calmer with each other now but I'll be in with mucky hounds as soon as I can to fix me.

Lol! Is that Muckyhounds in Wexford?
If so, you're in good hands

hairyslug

Me and my eldest went out and got a rake of toys before Lucy arrived, no squeaks left in them now. They are chasing around with pieces of apple now but I think I was over worrying as their attitude has calmed down a lot today.

Yeah, mucky hounds in Gorey, she's great and Brendan really loves her.

muddypaws

I am really sorry, and hope I don't upset anybody, but could somebody please change the title of this thread? It is driving me mad, wondering how much nurturing Bren is getting, and is his friend getting the same amount?

DBB

Maybe they're both being nurtured, but he's also getting neutered? In which case he'll require additional nurturing

muddypaws

DBB wrote: »

Maybe they're both being nurtured, but he's also getting neutered? In which case he'll require additional nurturing

Its seriously driving me nuts (see what I did there), and I'm going to have to stay away from the forum until the thread disappears from the top page.

DBB

In that case, I'm going to make sure I bump it. Every. Single. Day.

muddypaws

DBB wrote: »

In that case, I'm going to make sure I bump it. Every. Single. Day.

But then people won't see if Bran's distinctive chest marking gets bigger, or smaller, or changes shape. On your head be it.


Apologies OP, I'm sure a mod will be along soon to tell us off for going off topic

hairyslug

Just a little question

Before we had bren, it was maybe 15 years since there was a dog in my family so just not sure of a few behaviours, all you remember after that time are the good things

When we got bren, it was clear that he had a few issues, mainly separation anxiety. Unless he's exhausted, he will go where we go in the house and up until a few months ago, he only lay down on his bed to sleep, never panned out in the garden or in a sunny spot in the kitchen, luckily, Lucy seems to have opened him up to this and he is a lot more independent now (saying that, he's sitting on my lap at the moment asleep)

But with Lucy, she is much more independent, you never know where you will find her asleep or just having a sit outside, I found her cooling down while lieing on the grass in the rain this morning, if we are in the garden, she will happily do her own thing until we call her and try and get her to interact in a game, with bren, he's the one pushing us to play.

Is this independence normal, is it an issue with her only being new to our house or is she just a bit precious.

DBB

What's she like one-to-one with you around the house? Is she cuddlesome and affectionate, or is she more reserved even then?

hairyslug

It's hit and miss, but probably more so looking for cuddles, if she hears bren getting attention she will be barging through but when the kids are in school and not much happening around the house, bren will go wherever I go where Lucy will lie down in one of her 2 spots to chill or have a wander around the garden.

tk123

hairyslug wrote: »

It's hit and miss, but probably more so looking for cuddles, if she hears bren getting attention she will be barging through but when the kids are in school and not much happening around the house, bren will go wherever I go where Lucy will lie down in one of her 2 spots to chill or have a wander around the garden.

Our Lucy is the same! Way more independent than her big bro

Bells21

We've two dogs as well and sound very similar to these two. Hoops is independent will take himself off upstairs or somewhere where there's a sunny/warm spot and Bella is always beside you. Hoops does like to cuddle and be with us as well but just not all the time.