P21 -They want €6,000 from me!

greiva

Hi all,

I just received this nice letter in my mailbox telling me there is an outstanding underpayment of tax of a little bit over €6,000. I feel terrible and I am sick to my stomach.

I switched jobs last year but I called in advance and the people from revenue told me they will handle the credit transfers properly. I was emergency taxed (I'm a foreigner) in the first month of my new employer, but got a huge payment the month after that, so I thought all is fine.

How is this possible? I check my payslip every month and it looks like I pay the correct amount of tax. I am so scared, please any advice is welcome. Should I call them? Leave the country?

Thanks

Stheno

greiva wrote: »

Hi all,

I just received this nice letter in my mailbox telling me there is an outstanding underpayment of tax of a little bit over €6,000. I feel terrible and I am sick to my stomach.

I switched jobs last year but I called in advance and the people from revenue told me they will handle the credit transfers properly. I was emergency taxed (I'm a foreigner) in the first month of my new employer, but got a huge payment the month after that, so I thought all is fine.

How is this possible? I check my payslip every month and it looks like I pay the correct amount of tax. I am so scared, please any advice is welcome. Should I call them? Leave the country?

Thanks

Call them and ask them to explain the discrepancy
Usually with a liability that high they will reduce your tax credits until it is paid back

evolving_doors

Might be unrelated, but there was a tax scam on Joe Duffy radio show about a year ago. But that was done over the phone.

greiva

Do I read it correctly that on the P21 under "Taxed Deducted" this should be total sum of taxes paid by me in that calendar year?

We have listed:
Tax Due: 25k
Tax Credits: 3k
Taxes Deducted: 16k

25-3-16 = 6k they want from me.

Am I reading this correct? Because I paid WAYYYYY more than 16k in taxes in 2016 according to my payslips, so maybe thats the issue? Do they get the "tax deducted" number from the employer? I wouldnt be surprised if my 2nd employer messed sth up here to be honest.

Thanks for any help!

Stheno

Have you checked those figures against what your p60 says?

CIARAN_BOYLE

greiva wrote: »

Do I read it correctly that on the P21 under "Taxed Deducted" this should be total sum of taxes paid by me in that calendar year?

We have listed:
Tax Due: 25k
Tax Credits: 3k
Taxes Deducted: 16k

25-3-16 = 6k they want from me.

Am I reading this correct? Because I paid WAYYYYY more than 16k in taxes in 2016 according to my payslips, so maybe thats the issue? Do they get the "tax deducted" number from the employer? I wouldnt be surprised if my 2nd employer messed sth up here to be honest.

Thanks for any help!

Your pay slips should add up to your P60 which should equal your taxes deducted figure


If you want to blackout your name and apps number and send your p60 p45 and balancing statement to me via PM I will try and have a look for you.

greiva

Hi all, thanks for the comments so far.

Unfortunately I dont have my current P60, I just quit my job and last week and my old employer is goingto send it to me in the next couple of months. I also dont have my payslips anymore since they were on the company computer, so I cant manually sum it up (thats what the P60 does, right?).

I'm gonna send you a PM Ciaran, thanks!

Stheno

greiva wrote: »

Hi all, thanks for the comments so far.

Unfortunately I dont have my current P60, I just quit my job and last week and my old employer is goingto send it to me in the next couple of months. I also dont have my payslips anymore since they were on the company computer, so I cant manually sum it up (thats what the P60 does, right?).

I'm gonna send you a PM Ciaran, thanks!

Your employer should have sent you a p 60 by mid February you might be confusing it with a p45

Sleeper12

Revenue aren't the easiest to deal with but they won't expect it all at once, unless they know you have it to spare.
They will let you pay back weekly but they won't let it go on for years either.

Stheno

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Revenue aren't the easiest to deal with but they won't expect it all at once, unless they know you have it to spare.
They will let you pay back weekly but they won't let it go on for years either.

If you are PAYE they will simply reduce your credits each year until they are paid back

relax carry on

What was your gross taxable earnings for 2016 and did you request a review of 2016 online or over the phone with Revenue. 3000 euro tax credits does not seem right.

Find your final payslip for 2016 and compare the figures on it with the figures on the p21.

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greiva

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Revenue aren't the easiest to deal with but they won't expect it all at once, unless they know you have it to spare.
They will let you pay back weekly but they won't let it go on for years either.

Hi,

It was 50k from employer 1 (Jan-August) and 25k from employer 2 (August-Dec). I dont have any payslips, they were all electronic and stored on my work laptop. Now I know that was stupied. Also not registered online with revenue. But they can do an audit on the phone?

However, my main question is what the "Tax Deducted" mean. It says 16k and I am assuming this is saying how much they think I paid in tax, and I obviously I paid much more than that in tax.

Is that's the mistake?

greiva

This was @relax carry on, Idk how to quote properly apparently. Also sorry for the horrible spelling, just so freaked out for the past 2 hours..

MouseTail

Was this a letter or an email? If sounds like a scam to me.
Give Revenue a call tomorrow or register with Revenue Online to check.

greiva

It's a letter and I highly doubt its a scam, both my old employers are listed, correct PPS, all looks legit, Also I just found my P60 and the Tax Deducated unfortunately matches with the P21, so apparently all the money I paid every moth went to USC and PRSI? 1.3k in tax and 27k in USC and 1k in PRSI. Is this possible?

Yourmama

Definitely scam. The sums you provided don't add up. Give revenue a call

Edit: ok your last post clarifies a bit so I take back what I wrote

greiva

I rounded the numbers in the first posts. Have a look here, the p21 and the p60 from my 2nd employer (Aug-Dec)

h t t ps://drive.google.com/drive/u/2/folders/0B4g1FrSeJlJSdExudEc5elhWS1k

(just remove the spaces in the https, otherwise I cant post links).

Is it really possible I only paid 1357€ in taxes from August - December while grossing 27k? Is it possible the P60 is wrong and I should confirm it with my monthly payslips?

Thanks

relax carry on

greiva wrote: »

This was @relax carry on, Idk how to quote properly apparently. Also sorry for the horrible spelling, just so freaked out for the past 2 hours..

Before I get into the calculations, did you request the p21 or review online or over the phone with Revenue? Did you instigate this as P21's don't issue without a request by the taxpayer.

greiva

I didnt request the P21, also I just texted a former colleague and she hasnt received anything.

However 3 weeks ago I emailed revenue for sending me a certificate saying im a tax resident in Ireland (for my home country's insurance, they needed it). I got back an email saying they cant advice via mail due to data security and got a letter by post asking me if I am still in Ireland. I guess thats unrelated?

Stheno

greiva wrote: »

It's a letter and I highly doubt its a scam, both my old employers are listed, correct PPS, all looks legit, Also I just found my P60 and the Tax Deducated unfortunately matches with the P21, so apparently all the money I paid every moth went to USC and PRSI? 1.3k in tax and 27k in USC and 1k in PRSI. Is this possible?

27k in USC? That's definitely wrong.

According to the deloitte tax calculator for last year you should have paid the following

PAYE: 19.940
USC 3,452
PRSI 3,000

http://services.deloitte.ie/tc/Results.aspx

assuming you are a single person with no dependants and normal single person allowances.

What does it say for PAYE, USC and PRSI? Is it possible you've read it wrong?

greiva

Please have a look in the GDrive above, thanks so much for your help! Not sure if I read it correctly.

And yep, single, no dependents etc

relax carry on

greiva wrote: »

I didnt request the P21, also I just texted a former colleague and she hasnt received anything.

However 3 weeks ago I emailed revenue for sending me a certificate saying im a tax resident in Ireland (for my home country's insurance, they needed it). I got back an email saying they cant advice via mail due to data security and got a letter by post asking me if I am still in Ireland. I guess thats unrelated?

They may have issued you a p21 showing as proof of your taxes paid position. The p21 and p60 have very different figures for your first job. Which one is correct?

greiva

"The p21 and p60 have very different figures for your first job. Which one is correct?"

You mean the 48k (p21) vs. 34k (p60). This is gross pay of my first employer from Jan-August? I really couldnt say, but I just found my August payslip from my first employer, and it says "Pay YTD" 38.5k, so I guess neither number is correct? I would says so, 48k seems too high, 34k too low.

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

27k in USC? That's definitely wrong.

According to the deloitte tax calculator for last year you should have paid the following

PAYE: 19.940
USC 3,452
PRSI 3,000

http://services.deloitte.ie/tc/Results.aspx

assuming you are a single person with no dependants and normal single person allowances.

What does it say for PAYE, USC and PRSI? Is it possible you've read it wrong?

greiva wrote: »

Please have a look in the GDrive above, thanks so much for your help! Not sure if I read it correctly.

And yep, single, no dependents etc

Ok there is something weird going on here, as the gross earned on your P60 is 34,149, but the gross on your P21 is 74,685

That's a huge difference.

Your P21 also lists you as having paid 13,789 in PAYE as opposed to the 19k odd you should have if that's what you earned which is where the 6k is coming from.

You need to get the figures confirmed as to what you earned and what Revenue have as a record of what you earned and the taxes you paid.

greiva

Okay, Im just confused with the P60, should this include numbers from both my employers (bc then the 34,149 is ofc wrong). Because it always say "from previous employments", so I thought there was just listed employer 1 from Jan-Aug. But well, probably doesnt make sense.

relax carry on

greiva wrote: »

"The p21 and p60 have very different figures for your first job. Which one is correct?"

You mean the 48k (p21) vs. 34k (p60). This is gross pay of my first employer from Jan-August? I really couldnt say, but I just found my August payslip from my first employer, and it says "Pay YTD" 38.5k, so I guess neither number is correct? I would says so, 48k seems too high, 34k too low.

No, the p60 is from your second employment. It states that your income from your first employment was 7474 and your second was 26775. The p21 states 48009 for your first job and 26775 for the second.

greiva

AH okay, thanks for clarifying that.

Well I can only say for sure then the 7474 is wrong. The 48k could be true.

So I am just calling revenue tomorrow and asking them where the numbers are coming from? Pointing out what you said?

Stheno

greiva wrote: »

AH okay, thanks for clarifying that.

Well I can only say for sure then the 7474 is wrong. The 48k could be true.

So I am just calling revenue tomorrow and asking them where the numbers are coming from? Pointing out what you said?

Do you have your P45 from the job you left halfway during the year?

greiva

So if I see this right, the 7474 is wrong (should be more like 40k maybe 48k since it is supposed to me my pay from employer 1 from Jan-Aug), the P60 will state I paid much more in tax and thus the current P21 is likely false?

Stheno

greiva wrote: »

So if I see this right, the 7474 is wrong (should be more like 40k maybe 48k since it is supposed to me my pay from employer 1 from Jan-Aug), the P60 will state I paid much more in tax and thus the current P21 is likely false?

Should do, but you'll need your P60, and your P45 from your first job to demonstrate this to Revenue.

greiva

Hi Stehno,

I uploaded the P45, it says cessation date end of August.

h t t p s://drive.google.com/drive/u/2/folders/0B4g1FrSeJlJSdExudEc5elhWS1k

So here the 7474 also appears? I dont think this number is supposed to say how much I earned in that year, only the difference with the previous P45 (which I dont have)

relax carry on

greiva wrote: »

AH okay, thanks for clarifying that.

Well I can only say for sure then the 7474 is wrong. The 48k could be true.

So I am just calling revenue tomorrow and asking them where the numbers are coming from? Pointing out what you said?

Get your last payslip from your first job and the last payslip from 2016 for the second job for the pay and tax figures your employers should have provided to Revenue. These should match the p21 figures.

Stheno

greiva wrote: »

Hi Stehno,

I uploaded the P45, it says cessation date end of August.

h t t p s://drive.google.com/drive/u/2/folders/0B4g1FrSeJlJSdExudEc5elhWS1k

So here the 7474 also appears? I dont think this number is supposed to say how much I earned in that year, only the difference with the previous P45 (which I dont have)

Well where were you working before that? Did you have three jobs last year?

greiva

Nope, I came to Ireland and started at Employer 1 in September 2015, quit there in August 2016, started new employer August 2016 and quit new employer this month.

Maybe important to note that I was officially employed at employer 1 until end of August while I alrdy started at employer 2 in middle of August. I disclosed this to revenue beforehand and they said "no problem, we just need to shift some tax credits to your new employer". Due to this I got emergency taxed in August, but got a big payment in September. Is it possible that this ****ed it up somehow?

relax carry on

I see the p45 now. It's a supplementary one not the first one you received. Your second employer seems to have thought it was the first one showing your whole pay and tax for the year up to that point. It looks like your pay and tax has been totally messed up for the year. You need to figure out what your correct figures are by contacting your employers for 2016 and then checking it against the Revenue information.

dubrov

greiva wrote: »

Hi,



However, my main question is what the "Tax Deducted" mean. It says 16k and I am assuming this is saying how much they think I paid in tax, and I obviously I paid much more than that in tax.

Is that's the mistake?

Tax Deducted means the actual amount of tax they deducted from your salary before it hit your bank account.
So basically they are saying that they deducted 16k but they now think it should have been 22k.

Your last payslip for 2016 should show the total amount deducted for 2016 so check it is 16k,
You can check how much you should've paid here
http://taxcalc.ie/budget-2016/

allthedoyles

greiva wrote: »

Nope, I came to Ireland and started at Employer 1 in September 2015, quit there in August 2016, started new employer August 2016 and quit new employer this month.

Maybe important to note that I was officially employed at employer 1 until end of August while I alrdy started at employer 2 in middle of August. I disclosed this to revenue beforehand and they said "no problem, we just need to shift some tax credits to your new employer". Due to this I got emergency taxed in August, but got a big payment in September. Is it possible that this ****ed it up somehow?

confusion with P45's caused this as your new employer in August input the wrong figures and when you were taken off emergency you said you got a big payment . this was a mistake by your employer .

but the original mistake may have been by yourself if you gave your new employer only a supplementary P45

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