Buying a house whilst on welfare

Doltanian

A bit of an unusual one here folks. Anyway my younger brother lives with my mam and dad at home and he receives social welfare as he has a learning difficulty since he was a child, both of my parents are recently retired and recently I saw a small house for sale at a reasonable price which would suit my brother nicely, he has his good and bad days but I think he is well capable of independent living, I think his biggest problem is my mother mollycuddling him and sheer laziness, he's in his late twenties but we all still love him to bits.

I have my own life but I would prefer to move my bother out of the homeplace as it was agreed between my parents, sister and I that I myself will inherit the home place upon my parents passing on which hopefully won't be for another 20+ years. My parents bought my sister a mansion two years ago for her and her fiance (lucky git).

I have seen this house and I am prepared to contribute around €30k to €50k, my parents will put up the other €50k and my little brother has around €20k to €30k squirrelled away himself as he lives with my parents and doesn't spend a penny or contribute anything, he gets some sort of payment around €200 a week as far as I know. I drew the dole for one summer in my early twenties after college receiving around €40 a week so things must be different now for him.

My sisters fiance has also agreed to contribute in return for the house which my parents bought for him and my sister as his own situation has improved alot since then and the big house they bought cheaply has almost doubled in value since. Bought at below value firesale compared to market value.

TLDR; Basically what I'm wondering is if we buy my brother this house and move him out of the homeplace would his disability assistance payments he gets be cut off, if this was the case he couldn't support himself I'd say. As far I know he gets €188 per week with a medical card and free train tickets like an old age pensioner.

It is my interest to get him out of the homehouse as it was valued much higher than this house I'm looking to buy for the brother.

I want to inherit this cleanly without family conflict, of course my brother will need a place of his own so this would suit him grand. We also have another old farmhouse on an adjoining farm that my father bought a number of years ago which I'm currently considering demolishing to rebuild, I'm renting myself and would rather buy shortly as my business is doing good now so I'd prefer to try sort out my brother out before inheriting myself later in life and get my own affairs in order.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I'd be more concerned about his liability for gift take after all that.

tomwaits48

Talk to a solicitor

HeidiHeidi

How does your brother feel about all this?

njs030

Does he want this? It seems to be what you want and no mention of him.

Anyway it's more of a tax question, because you're giving him a gift he will be liable to pay tax on it and it will affect his inheritance from his parents as well if they give him money.

He needs to discuss his options with an independent solicitor.

Sleeper12

Brenden Kind Cornflakes wrote:

I'd be more concerned about his liability for gift take after all that.

+1
Definitely need to look at gift tax.
He'll be fine with the amount your mum and dad are giving. He might even be ok with what the brothers are giving. It's his sisters fiancé giving money is a problem. Less so if your sister gave it instead.
Tax aside I can't see it effecting his disability payment. The social welfare can confirm this

thomas 123

Doltanian wrote: »

A bit of an unusual one here folks. Anyway my younger brother lives with my mam and dad at home and he receives social welfare as he has a learning difficulty since he was a child, both of my parents are recently retired and recently I saw a small house for sale at a reasonable price which would suit my brother nicely, he has his good and bad days but I think he is well capable of independent living, I think his biggest problem is my mother mollycuddling him and sheer laziness, he's in his late twenties but we all still love him to bits.

I have my own life but I would prefer to move my bother out of the homeplace as it was agreed between my parents, sister and I that I myself will inherit the home place upon my parents passing on which hopefully won't be for another 20+ years. My parents bought my sister a mansion two years ago for her and her fiance (lucky git).

I have seen this house and I am prepared to contribute around €30k to €50k, my parents will put up the other €50k and my little brother has around €20k to €30k squirrelled away himself as he lives with my parents and doesn't spend a penny or contribute anything, he gets some sort of payment around €200 a week as far as I know. I drew the dole for one summer in my early twenties after college receiving around €40 a week so things must be different now for him.

My sisters fiance has also agreed to contribute in return for the house which my parents bought for him and my sister as his own situation has improved alot since then and the big house they bought cheaply has almost doubled in value since. Bought at below value firesale compared to market value.

TLDR; Basically what I'm wondering is if we buy my brother this house and move him out of the homeplace would his disability assistance payments he gets be cut off, if this was the case he couldn't support himself I'd say. As far I know he gets €188 per week with a medical card and free train tickets like an old age pensioner.

It is my interest to get him out of the homehouse as it was valued much higher than this house I'm looking to buy for the brother.

I want to inherit this cleanly without family conflict, of course my brother will need a place of his own so this would suit him grand. We also have another old farmhouse on an adjoining farm that my father bought a number of years ago which I'm currently considering demolishing to rebuild, I'm renting myself and would rather buy shortly as my business is doing good now so I'd prefer to try sort out my brother out before inheriting myself later in life and get my own affairs in order.

Can you be my dad?

StupidLikeAFox

Here you go:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/capital_taxes/capital_acquisitions_tax.html

You could potentially gift 32.5k to your brother tax free. Gift the remainder to you parents and have them gift the 70k odd to your brother. Not sure if this is legal in practice but sounds ok based on the above article

chicorytip

What you are proposing sounds like a bad idea. He needs a home of his own alright but something more in keeping with his means which is only 190 euro a week, after all. How would he run and maintain a property with such limited means? He needs to apply for inclusion on the local authority housing list but in order to qualify his total income and assets - including any interest in property - cannot be in excess of 30,000 euro.

Sleeper12

StupidLikeAFox wrote:

You could potentially gift 32.5k to your brother tax free. Gift the remainder to you parents and have them gift the 70k odd to your brother. Not sure if this is legal in practice but sounds ok based on the above article

He can inherit 32.5k in total in his lifetime from a brother or sister. I don't think he can get this tax free from each sibling.

njs030

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Here you go:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/capital_taxes/capital_acquisitions_tax.html

You could potentially gift 32.5k to your brother tax free. Gift the remainder to you parents and have them gift the 70k odd to your brother. Not sure if this is legal in practice but sounds ok based on the above article

At which point the brother is waaaay above the allowance for DA.

He needs to see a solicitor if and only if he wants to move out.


Edit-revenue are pretty good at spotting tax evasion like this!!

Doltanian

chicorytip wrote: »

What you are proposing sounds like a bad idea. He needs a home of his own alright but something more in keeping with his means which is only 190 euro a week, after all. How would he run and maintain a property with such limited means? He needs to apply for inclusion on the local authority housing list but in order to qualify his total income and assets - including any interest in property - cannot be in excess of 30,000 euro.

Better chance of winning the lottery than getting a council house I'm afraid, plus he would be established for life by owning his own place. We actually looked into it last year but it appears only single mothers (usually with their BF living in) and non-nationals that seem to qualify for social housing.

We want to do everything right and pay whatever taxes are due, if there is any loopholes that can be exploited legally or ways of minimising tax then of course we will do it but the main thing is we do the right thing.

njs030

Doltanian wrote: »

Better chance of winning the lottery than getting a council house I'm afraid, plus he would be established for life by owning his own place. We actually looked into it last year but it appears only single mothers (usually with their BF living in) and non-nationals that seem to qualify for social housing.

That's an appalling attitude TBH.

neonsofa

Doltanian wrote: »

Better chance of winning the lottery than getting a council house I'm afraid, plus he would be established for life by owning his own place. We actually looked into it last year but it appears only single mothers (usually with their BF living in) and non-nationals that seem to qualify for social housing.

.

What kind of research did you do? Chat to the woman down the road who knows a "non national" who left her pram at the bus stop because the social will give her a new one?

People are evaluated based on need (there is a list of eligibility criteria which is the same for everybody) and then housing is provided based on how long they have been on the list. Or those with medical needs, or who are in emergency accommodation may get priority.

wordofwarning

Doltanian wrote: »

Better chance of winning the lottery than getting a council house I'm afraid, plus he would be established for life by owning his own place. We actually looked into it last year but it appears only single mothers (usually with their BF living in) and non-nationals that seem to qualify for social housing.

So on this small payment he gets each week. How is he going to afford LPT, insurance, water, ESB, Gas, replacing appliances as they fail? If a boiler fails, it will be like €2.5k to replace it.

Have you consider RAS or HAP scheme? He rents instead of owning.

I don't think you have not realised owning a home is a lifelong commitment with a lot of expenses

FYI if you applied for a council house for him when he turned 18/23, he likely would have gotten it now despite the fact he isnt 'foreign' or a 'single mother with a bf'...

Spark Plug

Why doesn't you just all buy the house and give him a life interest e.g. He can remain there for these rest of his life.

Doltanian

neonsofa wrote: »

What kind of research did you do? Chat to the woman down the road who knows a "non national" who left her pram at the bus stop because the social will give her a new one?

People are evaluated based on need (there is a list of eligibility criteria which is the same for everybody) and then housing is provided based on how long they have been on the list. Or those with medical needs, or who are in emergency accommodation may get priority.

Half the country is looking for social housing and men are ranked lower down.

A friend of mine was left physically incapacitated after a bad car crash and he tried getting a council house or apartment and that was around 4 years ago and he didn't get one yet. He is expecting a payout shortly from the insurance of the third party at the time of the accident (he was in the right) and is expecting a six figure sum so he will buy his own place then I presume.

Needless to say depending on a council house or the state is a non-runner, my mam would probably have a heart-attack at the idea of one of her family being in socialised housing

myshirt

notjustsweet wrote: »

That's an appalling attitude TBH.

How is it?

It is a reality that that profile of person would be prioritised above the op's brother. The stock of suitable housing is lower for op brother than it is for a single parent or non national who finds themselves in challenging financial circumstances.

Doltanian

Spark Plug wrote: »

Why doesn't you just all buy the house and give him a life interest e.g. He can remain there for these rest of his life.

All this came about as my parents were considering doing just that but instead in the home house, which is much much more valuable (6-8x) than the place we are considering buying for him. I have severely objected to that and am going to partially fund a new place for him instead.

myshirt

Spark Plug wrote: »

Why doesn't you just all buy the house and give him a life interest e.g. He can remain there for these rest of his life.

There you go. Best suggestion.

In any event, op, the short and sweet version is there nothing complex here. Sit down with a tax advisor, get the advises, and have all his channeled through a solicitor.

Sleeper12

Doltanian wrote:

Half the country is looking for social housing and men are ranked lower down.

Generally single men are but people with some disabilities would be higher up the list.
Standing in the post office before Christmas. Guy in front of me was obviously a junkie or ex junkie. He was giving out. They gave him a flat and 1.5k to furnish it. This would be for white goods and stuff. How the f am I supposed to furnish it for 1.5k? He moans.
There's no pleasing some people.

neonsofa

Doltanian wrote: »

Half the country is looking for social housing and men are ranked lower down.

A friend of mine was left physically incapacitated after a bad car crash and he tried getting a council house or apartment and that was around 4 years ago and he didn't get one yet. He is expecting a payout shortly from the insurance of the third party at the time of the accident (he was in the right) and is expecting a six figure sum so he will buy his own place then I presume.

Needless to say depending on a council house or the state is a non-runner, my mam would probably have a heart-attack at the idea of one of her family being in socialised housing

Based on the eligibility criteria, not the very fact that he is "a man". A man who is unable to work due to a medical condition will have different needs and may qualify, or a man parenting alone (and not living with a partner).

The very fact your friend is still waiting on a house shows he was accepted onto the list so your previous comment that only non nationals and single mothers qualify is incorrect.

Allocation of houses is based on length of time and position on the list, unless there is extenuating circumstances and unfortunately even then you still have to wait your turn because as you said, there is a shortage and a long list. It is not the persons gender or race that it is based on, it is their needs and circumstances and position on the list.

But your comment there actually tells me everything I need to know.

infogiver

Doltanian wrote: »

Better chance of winning the lottery than getting a council house I'm afraid, plus he would be established for life by owning his own place. We actually looked into it last year but it appears only single mothers (usually with their BF living in) and non-nationals that seem to qualify for social housing.

We want to do everything right and pay whatever taxes are due, if there is any loopholes that can be exploited legally or ways of minimising tax then of course we will do it but the main thing is we do the right thing.

You did 0 research.
Your lucky enough to be from a very well to do family and you've a stinking attitude towards people who don't have the means to house themselves.
Add to this you've decided that your special needs brother needs to get out of "your" house ( get an axe and do your parents in now, why should you have to wait "20+" years?).
Further you want to pay all your taxes but avoid paying them if you can find any loopholes,
Your parents must be very proud.

njs030

myshirt wrote: »

How is it?

It is a reality that that profile of person would be prioritised above the op's brother. The stock of suitable housing is lower for op brother than it is for a single parent or non national who finds themselves in challenging financial circumstances.

As it should be! People in challenging situations should be housed long before someone with thousands in the bank but these people didn't bother to do any research or apply, instead he made sweeping judgements in an appallingly worded statement.


This from the person who cares about getting his hands cleanly on an expensive house rather than how his brother with learning difficulties on €200 p/w will afford to maintain a house.