Cityjet eyeing up Aer Lingus Regional franchise

pepe the prawn

http://m.independent.ie/business/irish/cityjet-revenue-expected-to-jump-by-a-third-to-280m-this-year-35712023.html

Pat Byrne has stated his company will pursue the Aer Lingus Regional franchise when it's up for renewal. Not good news for Stobart, Cityjet will be a serious contender.

I've heard rumours in the last year or so that Aer Lingus are eager for Stobart to upgrade to jet engined aircraft, how true this is I don't know. If it is true, then Stobart may be looking at a significant change in their operation if a fleet change is looming.

He has also stated that they are extending the use of the RJ's until 2021.

pepe the prawn

pepe the prawn wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/business/irish/cityjet-revenue-expected-to-jump-by-a-third-to-280m-this-year-35712023.html

Pat Byrne has stated his company will pursue the Aer Lingus Regional franchise when it's up for renewal. Not good news for Stobart, Cityjet will be a serious contender.

I've heard rumours in the last year or so that Aer Lingus are eager for Stobart to upgrade to jet engined aircraft, how true this is I don't know. If it is true, then Stobart may be looking at a significant change in their operation if a fleet change is looming.

He has also stated that they are extending the use of the RJ's until 2021.

Aer Lingus are reportedly not happy that so many transfer bags get left behind during the summer because of weight issues. They do follow later on the lighter aircraft without TA passengers but EI wanted Stobart to get jets. I heard that the E Jets will be followed by something like 4 more next year. But it may be too late for Slowbart.

Open Up

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Aer Lingus are reportedly not happy that so many transfer bags get left behind during the summer because of weight issues. They do follow later on the lighter aircraft without TA passengers but EI wanted Stobart to get jets. I heard that the E Jets will be followed by something like 4 more next year. But it may be too late for Slowbart.

Yeh, the cabin baggage limitations are also different between the carriers.

goingnowhere

SSJ would be the business on the busier routes where ATR's are used, could let EI mainline pull out entirely of Birmingham for example

The long and thin routes SSJ could be interesting CPH/ARN/OSL are huge gap in the EI schedule (leave HEL to AY as EI join the JB/OW someday) and could work well as CityJet as a large amount of business in that part of the world due the deal with SAS

Problem is ATR is a cheaper on the gas vs a Jet, but cityjet got the SSJ's at bargain rate so fuel vs whole life cost could balance

Blue House Bear

Nothing like having those gas guzzling 25 year old RJ's in 2021!!!

He can say anything he wants and get the byline in the newspapers.

One problem with SSJ's. Ok sure some young lad desperate for a jet job might go there but after you have paid your 100k to get your fATPL, who is going to want a type rating on an SSJ. Where do you go from there? I can't see the queues out the door to get on to that thing.

vkid

Those Stobart planes are awful yokes as a passenger imo. hate flying in them

Blue House Bear

vkid wrote: »

Those Stobart planes are awful yokes as a passenger imo. hate flying in them

Then why do you continue to fly with them?

Vote with your feet and choose another carrier.

1123heavy

Blue House Bear wrote: »

Nothing like having those gas guzzling 25 year old RJ's in 2021!!!

...

One problem with SSJ's. Ok sure some young lad desperate for a jet job might go there but after you have paid your 100k to get your fATPL, who is going to want a type rating on an SSJ. Where do you go from there? I can't see the queues out the door to get on to that thing.

The RJs are old ... but they are good at what they do and the company clearly have priorities other than getting the SSJ into LCY. Why get rid of the RJs in that case if they do what they are meant to. You will be surprised, many passengers like them.

As for who wants to fly the SSJ ... there is no issue there don't worry. There are many challenges in the future for CityJet, that is not one of them though.

Using your logic, why would anyone spend 100k to fly for stobart? or flybe? They operate turboprops and so the SSJ is a far better deal. Yet I have never heard of the turboprop guys to be struggling for pilots. That most certainly will not be the case so for the SSJ with its fly by wire and MTOW of <45T

Open Up

1123heavy wrote: »

The RJs are old ... but they are good at what they do and the company clearly have priorities other than getting the SSJ into LCY. Why get rid of the RJs in that case if they do what they are meant to. You will be surprised, many passengers like them.

As for who wants to fly the SSJ ... there is no issue there don't worry. There are many challenges in the future for CityJet, that is not one of them though.

Using your logic, why would anyone spend 100k to fly for stobart? or flybe? They operate turboprops and so the SSJ is a far better deal. Yet I have never heard of the turboprop guys to be struggling for pilots. That most certainly will not be the case so for the SSJ with its fly by wire and MTOW of <45T

I don't suppose that opportunity that came your way was on the SSJ by any chance, was it?

Blue House Bear

1123heavy wrote: »

Yet I have never heard of the turboprop guys to be struggling for pilots.

Quite the opposite in fact. Stobart constantly struggle for people and constantly lose crews to those in better off positions. Then again all the airlines are crying out for crews. EI Mainline has an urgent need for 40 pilots. Now they are not doing anything about it in a hurry but the need is there.

Sorry its going slightly off topic. So Pat Byrne says those RJ's will be around until 2021. Thats a few guys safe for another few years. As for their challenges, well I think its safe to say that list is quite long.

Open Up

Blue House Bear wrote: »

Quite the opposite in fact. Stobart constantly struggle for people and constantly lose crews to those in better off positions. Then again all the airlines are crying out for crews. EI Mainline has an urgent need for 40 pilots. Now they are not doing anything about it in a hurry but the need is there.

Sorry its going slightly off topic. So Pat Byrne says those RJ's will be around until 2021. Thats a few guys safe for another few years. As for their challenges, well I think its safe to say that list is quite long.

To say operating inefficient aircraft in 2021 is not a challenge either is a bit remiss.

1123heavy

Open Up wrote: »

I don't suppose that opportunity that came your way was on the SSJ by any chance, was it?

It wasn't ... bigger .

Quite the opposite in fact. Stobart constantly struggle for people and constantly lose crews to those in better off positions. Then again all the airlines are crying out for crews. EI Mainline has an urgent need for 40 pilots. Now they are not doing anything about it in a hurry but the need is there.

Need and want are two different things. I can assure you there are no shortage of CVs on the desk of any airline in Europe at the moment. It is still very much the employer's who have the upper hand. At a recent talk (which I attended), deputy chief pilot of Ryanair said he had 4000 CVs land on his desk last year alone. There may be a shortage of experienced captains, but 200hr -500hr guys coming to fly the SSJs? CityJet will be doing them a big favour. Likewise Stobart.

To say operating inefficient aircraft in 2021 is not a challenge either is a bit remiss.

I see where you're coming from. The RJs are going, but right now they are very much the 'ol reliable for CityJet (yes they go tech, but they are still the backbone). You could say they have much bigger fish to fry at the moment, they are not exactly cause for daily board room meetings . They are still able to secure ad hoc and wet lease services with the RJ for the time being ...

Blue House Bear

At a recent talk (which I attended), deputy chief pilot of Ryanair said he had 4000 CVs land on his desk last year alone. .

I don't doubt you for an instant but it seems a bit far fetched a number of 4000. Lets see what the next 5 years brings.

1123heavy

Blue House Bear wrote: »

I don't doubt you for an instant but it seems a bit far fetched a number of 4000. Lets see what the next 5 years brings.

It is hard to believe, but I certainly believe it, if not more. If you look to the bottom of this article you will see that CTC, just a training school, received 8000 applications. When you consider the number of unemployed pilots across Europe ... 4000 for a job with Ryanair is very feasible. You may be familiar with their process, it is a bit like russian roulette. A number hear back in a week, some 6 months ... some never. They must get through at least over a hundred CVs in a day and just chuck the ones that don't immediately grasp their attention.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/10471124/Airline-face-looming-shortage-of-pilots-warns-CTC-Aviation.html

I do apologise for the thread drift ...

vkid

Blue House Bear wrote:

Vote with your feet and choose another carrier.

I do.

Locker10a

Of the proposed codeshare partnership between Ryanair and Aer Lingus goes ahead then the need for this proposal may no longer exist

Stovepipe

The difference is that ATRs are reliable and RJs are not. I smell PB casting about trying to find work for those RJs, while he still has to pay for them and until the SSJs gain more reliability and he gets more hulls from the Russians. There's a reason why EI got shot of those RJs and the last thing they need is to have another airline try to lob RJs back onto them.

1123heavy

Stovepipe wrote: »

The difference is that ATRs are reliable and RJs are not. I smell PB casting about trying to find work for those RJs, while he still has to pay for them and until the SSJs gain more reliability and he gets more hulls from the Russians. There's a reason why EI got shot of those RJs and the last thing they need is to have another airline try to lob RJs back onto them.

The RJs aren't the most reliable no, but I'm not sure about Aer Lingus hesitant to use them for charter purposes, cos they wouldn't be dealing with the aircraft themselves. In fact Aer Lingus have used CityJet's services a number of times in recent months, on the majority of occasions the RJ was used and Aer Lingus expressed no discontent. They return for more each time rather.

Hotblack Desiato

1123heavy wrote: »

The RJs aren't the most reliable no

In 2003 I was scheduled to fly on a (mainline Aer Lingus, as it was then) BAe146 DUB-BHX

I thought "Cool, never flown on one of those before"

Shortly before boarding it went tech and after a short delay we were put onto an Airbus (nothing wrong with that but not something we've all done before)

I think the 146s were on their last legs on EI at that time, so I was a bit disappointed to miss out. There wasn't a return flight as I was going over there to pick up a motorbike I'd bought. Yeah I got onto a plane wearing full bike leathers and boots :pac: and carrying a magnetic petrol tank bag the DUB security were a bit dubious about until I explained what it was.

To this day if you read a story about EI on the online Irish Times or RTE News there'll be a picture with a 146 or 111 in it :rolleyes:

L1011

The line-up of 146s and 737s during a strike is the favoured I image. Same livery allows ancient photos. 1-11s were only in the old livery, think the F50 was the longest gone from the fleet the get the new

airvan

1123heavy wrote: »

At a recent talk (which I attended), deputy chief pilot of Ryanair said he had 4000 CVs land on his desk last year alone.

Every airline has the same 4000 CVs. As soon as a recruitment surge happens that disappears fast. Remember a significant portion of that number are simply unsuitable to be airline pilots. So the number is a lot less. There always seems to be around 4000 wannabes in the CV pile.

lufties

vkid wrote: »

Those Stobart planes are awful yokes as a passenger imo. hate flying in them

I love them, not sure why tbh. The size, the rough and tumble maybe.

lufties

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

In 2003 I was scheduled to fly on a (mainline Aer Lingus, as it was then) BAe146 DUB-BHX

I thought "Cool, never flown on one of those before"

Shortly before boarding it went tech and after a short delay we were put onto an Airbus (nothing wrong with that but not something we've all done before)

I think the 146s were on their last legs on EI at that time, so I was a bit disappointed to miss out. There wasn't a return flight as I was going over there to pick up a motorbike I'd bought. Yeah I got onto a plane wearing full bike leathers and boots :pac: and carrying a magnetic petrol tank bag the DUB security were a bit dubious about until I explained what it was.

To this day if you read a story about EI on the online Irish Times or RTE News there'll be a picture with a 146 or 111 in it :rolleyes:

Yeah, I don't now why they don't change the photos to an airbus on rte, Laziness and ignorance probably.

I worked for WX (as an engineer), them 146/RJs are a pig of a thing to work on..I left WX in 2007 and thankfully haven't turned a spanner on them since.

man98

I think it was Pat Byrne himself that said in his book that BAe stands for Bring Another engine... historically they have had plenty of maintenance and tech issues. However, as long as it's not EI's risk they won't massively care (unless there's a reaction similar to the Omni 767 on SNN - BOS) - I do think however that an agreement will be reached with WX operating many busier routes when push comes to shove.

robyntmorton

man98 wrote: »

I think it was Pat Byrne himself that said in his book that BAe stands for Bring Another engine... historically they have had plenty of maintenance and tech issues. However, as long as it's not EI's risk they won't massively care (unless there's a reaction similar to the Omni 767 on SNN - BOS) - I do think however that an agreement will be reached with WX operating many busier routes when push comes to shove.

Indeed, he does say that in "Fuelled By Belief - The Cityjet Story" and IIRC (I'd have to dig out my copy to check) that unless there was an engine available in all 4 configurations, they really were a nightmare to change.

Stovepipe

We wanted an engine one time and Swiss had a full aircraft set of four on standby and wouldn't let us have one, despite engine loans being common in the industry and the prevailing attitude, even between rivals, was that we wouldn't see you stuck.The word got around rapidly that they were being obstinate b'stards and the heat went right up to the Swiss top floor and miraculously, an engine was found...