David Pawson

koumi

So, I don't know why but I found myself trawling through some videos on youtube and found this guy. I'll be honest and say this stuff is new to me but I found myself hooked and listened to a few of his talks. This one in particular grabbed me and I'm just wondering if others are familiar with this line of thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvvisCN1juk

It's definitely had a life changing affect on my understanding of christian eschatology. (is that the right word?)

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Pawson is excellent, a true man of God, and I say that as someone who comes from the Catholic perspective. He's given hundreds of talks about scripture over the years. He comes from the Baptist perspective, but he's non sectarian, and doesn't make the usual false claims about other denominations and what they believe.

His talks and videos are all freely available here, and I'd highly recommend them :

http://davidpawson.org/resources/series/unlocking-the-new-testament-1

koumi

I didn't actually know what denomination he was (I don't have one myself) but yep I've spent the last couple of nights watching a series of his discussions, and falling asleep peacefully. It's my new thing. Thanks for the link.

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koumi wrote: »

I didn't actually know what denomination he was (I don't have one myself) but yep I've spent the last couple of nights watching a series of his discussions, and falling asleep peacefully. It's my new thing. Thanks for the link.

You've discovered a gem. This man walks with God.

Some of the best and most educational talks currently available on the net about scripture and Christianity by far.

God Bless and enjoy.

antiskeptic

koumi wrote: »

So, I don't know why but I found myself trawling through some videos on youtube and found this guy. I'll be honest and say this stuff is new to me but I found myself hooked and listened to a few of his talks. This one in particular grabbed me and I'm just wondering if others are familiar with this line of thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvvisCN1juk

It's definitely had a life changing affect on my understanding of christian eschatology. (is that the right word?)

Try his "Leadership is male" for a (whatever about the theology) good old chauvinistic read.

koumi

antiskeptic wrote: »

Try his "Leadership is male" for a (whatever about the theology) good old chauvinistic read.

I have listened to a few bits popping up here and there. I mean, it's not for the faint of heart to be sure, I'm not offended by it though. (this is coming from someone who has previously been in same sex relationships and I won't deny being shocked to the core but at the same time I found a part of me wanted to hear the truth no matter how harsh it was. It's not something I would expect many to understand and I certainly wouldn't shunt it onto anybody else but for me it has had the intended effect)

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antiskeptic wrote: »

Try his "Leadership is male" for a (whatever about the theology) good old chauvinistic read.

Never had you down as a feminist, but rather than drive by trolling David Pawson and trying to derail, if you are serious maybe you can start a proper thread on why the chauvinistic trinity is male, and chauvinistic Jesus only chose male apostles, yet pagans in the the surrounding nations had female priestesses galore for thousands of years ? One of the best things about Pawson is he doesn't go with popular opinion to be popular.

koumi

in a truth will set you free sort of way

antiskeptic

......... wrote: »

Never had you down as a feminist, but rather than drive by trolling David Pawson and trying to derail, if you are serious maybe you can start a proper thread on why the chauvinistic trinity is male, and chauvinistic Jesus only chose male apostles, yet pagans in the the surrounding nations had female priestesses galore for thousands of years ? One of the best things about Pawson is he doesn't go with popular opinion to be popular.

Chauvinist: a male who patronizes, disparages, or otherwise denigrates females in the belief that they are inferior to males and thus deserving of less than equal treatment or benefit.

I made the point of separating the theology of leadership being male with the manner of which he approached the issue. One can formulate a structured leadership-is-male theology and at the same time, display a chauvinistic attitude towards women. The presence of the latter doesn't have to detract from the argument made regarding the former.

koumi

antiskeptic wrote: »

Chauvinist: a male who patronizes, disparages, or otherwise denigrates females in the belief that they are inferior to males and thus deserving of less than equal treatment or benefit.

I made the point of separating the theology of leadership being male with the manner of which he approached the issue. One can formulate a structured leadership-is-male theology and at the same time, display a chauvinistic attitude towards women. The presence of the latter doesn't have to detract from the argument made regarding the former.

I know you're quoting the previous poster but as an aside, I wasn't disturbed by his patricentric view of Christianity. It is Christianity after all and in context it seems like a small detail and not one which particularly made me feel unequal. In some ways it did the opposite, he made it clear that I am no more a sinner than you, no more pitiful and wretched in the eyes of his God than any other. His father, his God is one which makes sense to me and in turn a feminine deity could not fit that role. I have no problem with that and the virtues of the divine masculine he portrays, although angry and at times vengeful, the one which I needed in my life right now. I could understand as a father why he would be.

antiskeptic

koumi wrote: »

I know you're quoting the previous poster but as an aside, I wasn't disturbed by his patricentric view of Christianity. It is Christianity after all and in context it seems like a small detail and not one which particularly made me feel unequal. In some ways it did the opposite, he made it clear that I am no more a sinner than you, no more pitiful and wretched in the eyes of his God than any other. His father, his God is one which makes sense to me and in turn a feminine deity could not fit that role. I have no problem with that and the virtues of the divine masculine he portrays, although angry and at times vengeful, the one which I needed in my life right now. I could understand as a father why he would be.

I can't say I've a particular problem with a leadership is male theology - although I've not necessarily sat down to figure whether to add it to the picture building. His somewhat condescending remarks about women irritated the hell out of me though..

koumi

antiskeptic wrote: »

I can't say I've a particular problem with a leadership is male theology - although I've not necessarily sat down to figure whether to add it to the picture building. His somewhat condescending remarks about women irritated the hell out of me though..

I sat down last night and listened to one of his leadership is male conferences amongst a male only audience. (I fell asleep before it finished) I have to say, it's difficult not to like him and while it might be considered a little old fashioned nowdays (although he is entirely charming while doing so) his discussion is also entertaining and informative. I like how he empowered every man in that room and gave them back a little piece of light in their lives. I would never, as a woman want to take that away from anybody, and by giving it to them he manages to spread it around a bit further and on the contrary, brings it back into balance with where it should be in respect to the feminine.

antiskeptic

koumi wrote: »

I sat down last night and listened to one of his leadership is male conferences amongst a male only audience. (I fell asleep before it finished) I have to say, it's difficult not to like him and while it might be considered a little old fashioned nowdays (although he is entirely charming while doing so) his discussion is also entertaining and informative. I like how he empowered every man in that room and gave them back a little piece of light in their lives. I would never, as a woman want to take that away from anybody, and by giving it to them he manages to spread it around a bit further and on the contrary, brings it back into balance with where it should be in respect to the feminine.

I'm sure there were plenty in the audience who are quite settled and happy with the idea of their wives wearing the trousers, so to speak. They might be quite alarmed at the idea of having to pick up the leadership role. Indeed, the AMEN charity indicates a more sinister side to trouser wearing.

Not every man is a leader and not every woman wants to follow. That's not to say that the theology hasn't merit, but it's far from straightforward, come implementation time.

koumi

antiskeptic wrote: »

I'm sure there were plenty in the audience who are quite settled and happy with the idea of their wives wearing the trousers, so to speak. They might be quite alarmed at the idea of having to pick up the leadership role. Indeed, the AMEN charity indicates a more sinister side to trouser wearing.

Not every man is a leader and not every woman wants to follow. That's not to say that the theology hasn't merit, but it's far from straightforward, come implementation time.

He made reference to such things and the reason why his audience in that instance was male only, it was done in a spirit of humour but his point was sincere and substantial and I think he made it well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCCBL9gxTw

I've moved onto the old testament study now, plenty there to keep me going for another good long while.

Delirium

antiskeptic wrote: »

Chauvinist: a male who patronizes, disparages, or otherwise denigrates females in the belief that they are inferior to males and thus deserving of less than equal treatment or benefit.

I made the point of separating the theology of leadership being male with the manner of which he approached the issue. One can formulate a structured leadership-is-male theology and at the same time, display a chauvinistic attitude towards women. The presence of the latter doesn't have to detract from the argument made regarding the former.

MOD NOTE

Lets try keep to the topic of the thread, ie. David Pawson, rather than a general discussion on "leadership being male".

Thanks for your attention.





And just on a general note, it would be appreciated if posters would refrain from accussing other posters of trolling.

If you see someone trolling, please use the report button.

koumi

fwiw, I'm not someone who would be overly familiar with scripture but I was interested in learning or at the least hearing another perspective so I could understand what is was all about better. I definitely needed a walkthrough though and this guy seemed as good as any. He has definitely given me plenty to chew on. I appreciate others opinions on the subject and I originally asked for that as I'm not familiar with what is considered correct teaching and figured this was a good place as any to start.

uck51js9zml2yt

koumi wrote: »

fwiw, I'm not someone who would be overly familiar with scripture but I was interested in learning or at the least hearing another perspective so I could understand what is was all about better. I definitely needed a walkthrough though and this guy seemed as good as any. He has definitely given me plenty to chew on. I appreciate others opinions on the subject and I originally asked for that as I'm not familiar with what is considered correct teaching and figured this was a good place as any to start.

You've made a good start and you wont go far wrong with Pawson. Others may disagree with him and he may say things which others disagree with but from a biblical perspective he's sound...at least in my book:D

evilmouse

Hi Koumi,

delighted you came upon David Pawson. I couldn't get over how long ago these videos were made but they hold such incredible truth and still have the same impact today as they did then. I discovered his teaching on the bible just over 18 months ago. He has made the bible come alive in a way I had not experienced before. The first teaching I every heard from D.W was on the topic of the Normal Christian Birth. I'll put the link below for you. My view of the Gospel has now changed....in a big way :-) I now understand what Jesus teaches about being 'Born Again'. I am now able to explain to people how to be born again as Jesus commanded us to, if we truly love him and want to follow him. I have baptised people in water & holy spirit in the last few months and to see new life emerge is so wonderful!! I pray you will be blessed by watching it and experience. David Pawson - The Normal Christian Birth

koumi

Thanks, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be left inside the door of a church so baptism is probably out for me. I'll check out the videos though, think I've watched one or two before but listening to his videos is about as close to hearing a preacher as I'm going to get in this lifetime.

hinault

koumi wrote: »

So, I don't know why but I found myself trawling through some videos on youtube and found this guy. I'll be honest and say this stuff is new to me but I found myself hooked and listened to a few of his talks. This one in particular grabbed me and I'm just wondering if others are familiar with this line of thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvvisCN1juk

It's definitely had a life changing affect on my understanding of christian eschatology. (is that the right word?)

An interesting presentation. A lot of what was said in that presentation was the same sort of content I heard as a kid in religion class coincidentally.

uck51js9zml2yt

koumi wrote: »

Thanks, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be left inside the door of a church so baptism is probably out for me. I'll check out the videos though, think I've watched one or two before but listening to his videos is about as close to hearing a preacher as I'm going to get in this lifetime.

Why do you think that is?

I'm actually reading his overview of the Bible as part of a study I'm doing.

evilmouse

Jesus has never commanded us to go to church...so no need to worry about that one Koumi :-)

Unfortunately, the word church has been misinterpreted for a long time, see a great article here on it.
I'm not anti-church but just saying that we've got the whole concept wrong. Jesus has asked us to be part part of his body here on earth, the 'ecclesia' (greek word for gathering, assembly...of what? says you!) = a body of Believers in Jesus Christ summoned by God and called out (by Him) from among the Jewish and Roman peoples to come together into a separate community under His Lordship. Not a building so?? Nope...that's man made stuff!! Jesus said He would build His 'church', i.e. ecclesia=body of believers. Jesus commanded us to make disciples that's the great commission, if we decide to truly follow Him.

So Koumi, you don't need to hear a great preacher, you just need to follow and obey the Only One you need = Jesus ;-) and connect in with a body of believers who will show you how to be like Him (Luke 6:40)

koumi

Kieran Important Butterfly wrote: »

Why do you think that is?

I'm actually reading his overview of the Bible as part of a study I'm doing.

Not sure which part the question is directed at, why do I think I wouldn't be left inside a church? Or why do I think he is the only preacher I'll get to hear?
I've tried church before when I was much closer to it and then I moved away from it because stuff. I probably didn't feel the kind of guidance I was seeking was available there at that time, being as lost as I was. (I still don't think it is) The church is very impersonal, at least the catholic church is. I get that the holy spirit is there, the instruction to pray is there, the meditation on the scripture is there and that should be enough (and in the spirit I suppose it is) where two or three are gathered in my name particularly. I just didn't have anywhere or anyone to turn to when I needed it.

Last year I attempted to return to my local church and attended a few services and felt even more removed because I had been so long away. Like I get that I'm a sinner and all that, I even made use of the confessional (the year of mercy that was in it) but I just felt very unwelcome.
I considered attending quaker meetings as there is at least an element of the personal revelation shared and even a community spirit which makes the society of friends appealing but I'm not sure I would be welcome there either, the fact is I'm too terrified to even try

(I applied for part time work in the office a local church last year too, publishing and compiling their newsletter, with a touch of graphic design thrown in for good measure given I had all the requirements and qualifications they required and I was a parishioner figured I stood as good chance as any. As a scheme for the unemployed I thought it was a good way for me to get in touch with my local community, utilise my skills and maybe find a way back in to the church in my heart but despite having a positive interview with the parish priest and sharing these intentions with him too, the fas supervisor in attendance near enough spat on me before walking out the door. I figured I'd probably never go back after that.)

I like listening to Pawson, I find it comforting to have that despite being otherwise ostracized.

koumi

evilmouse wrote: »

Jesus has never commanded us to go to church...so no need to worry about that one Koumi :-) (Luke 6:40)

You're right about that, I don't believe I do