Irish Qualified Professional Scrumhalves

scrights

Leinster
John Cooney(27/Gonzaga) - Connacht/Ulster
James Hart(25/Belvedere) - Racing/Munster
Angus Lloyd(24/Blackrock) - Ulster/Munster
Luke McGrath(24/St. Michaels)
Dave Shanahan(23/Belvedere) - Ulster
Nick McCarthy(22/St. Michaels)
Charlie Rock(22/Blackrock)

Munster
Peter Stringer(39/CBC Cork) - Sale
Tomas O'Leary(33/CBC Cork) - Montpellier
Duncan Williams(31/CBC Cork)
Conor Murray(28/St. Munchins)

Connacht
Cathal Sheridan(28/Sligo RFC) - Munster
Caolin Blade(23/Monivea RFC)
Conor McKeon(23/Gonzaga)
Conor Lowndes(21/Galwegians RFC)
Stephen Kerins(21/Sligo RFC)

Ulster
Paul Marshall(31/Methody)
Michael Heaney(26/Methody) - Doncaster
Jonny Stewart(19/Wallace)

Exile
Charlie Mulchrone(27) - Harlequins
Kieran Marmion(25) - Connacht

Am I missing anyone?

Munster the province with the worst record for developing scrumhalves is weird.

johnnyryan89

scrights wrote: »

Leinster
John Cooney(27/Gonzaga) - Connacht/Ulster
James Hart(25/Belvedere) - Racing/Munster
Angus Lloyd(24/Blackrock) - Ulster/Munster
Luke McGrath(24/St. Michaels)
Dave Shanahan(23/Belvedere) - Ulster
Conor McKeon(23/Gonzaga) - Connacht
Nick McCarthy(22/St. Michaels)
Charlie Rock(22/Blackrock)

Munster
Peter Stringer(39/CBC Cork) - Sale
Tomas O'Leary(33/CBC Cork) - Montpellier
Duncan Williams(31/CBC Cork)
Conor Murray(28/St. Munchins)

Connacht
Cathal Sheridan(28/Sligo RFC) - Munster
Caolin Blade(23/Monivea RFC)
Conor Lowndes(21/Galwegians RFC)
Stephen Kerins(21/Sligo RFC)

Ulster
Paul Marshall(31/Methody)
Michael Heaney(26/Methody) - Doncaster
Jonny Stewart(19/Wallace)

Exile
Kieran Marmion(25) - Connacht

Am I missing anyone?

Munster the province with the worst record for developing scrumhalves is weird.

Quality over quantity

scrights

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Quality over quantity

Not really an excuse for such poor player development since Murray..

Thankfully it looks to be changing with Casey the Ireland u18 captain and Stafford/Lyons at u20 level.

Squidgy Black

scrights wrote: »

Not really an excuse for such poor player development since Murray..

Thankfully it looks to be changing with Casey/Stafford/Lyons.

Poland is probably the next one in line, played well for the As and Con this year. Only 2nd year academy as well as far as I'm aware.

Conor McKeown wasn't developed into a scrum half in Leinster, he entered the Connacht academy as an out half and got turned into a scrum half this year.

scrights

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Poland is probably the next one in line, played well for the As and Con this year. Only 2nd year academy as well as far as I'm aware.

Not in the academy due to College.

johnnyryan89

scrights wrote: »

Not really an excuse for such poor player development since Murray..

Thankfully it looks to be changing with Casey/Stafford/Lyons.

So quality scrumhalves haven't been coming outta the academy every couple of years but three of the four you named have 177 Irish caps combined so it's always gonna be hard for young lads to come through and get ahead of Irish internationals and with only four professional teams in the country there's only so much room at clubs for players.

Forgot to add Eoin Reddan to your list. John Poland will be the next one coming outta the academy Munster.

scrights

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

So quality scrumhalves haven't been coming outta the academy every couple of years but three of the four you named have 177 Irish caps combined so it's always gonna be hard for young lads to come through and get ahead of Irish internationals and with only four professional teams in the country there's only so much room at clubs for players.

Forgot to add Eoin Reddan to your list. John Poland will be the next one coming outta the academy Munster.

Eoin Reddan is no longer a professional rugby player.

3 of the 4 I named are over 30.

No professional scrumhalf produced by Munster Academy since Murray who made his debut in 2010.

There has been plenty of opportunity for a quality young scrumhalf at Munster, there just hasn't been any to step up into that void.

Thankfully there appears to be some quality coming through the system now.

Dravokivich

I thought Exiles would have been Players who came up in Ireland, but then went to play elsewhere, as opposed to came in from elsewhere? Are you afraid to allude to Projects/Grannies?

scrights

Dravokivich wrote: »

I thought Exiles would have been Players who came up in Ireland, but then went to play elsewhere, as opposed to came in from elsewhere? Are you afraid to allude to Projects/Grannies?

Exiles being their background... developed outside of ireland

johnnyryan89

scrights wrote: »

Eoin Reddan is no longer a professional rugby player.

3 of the 4 I named are over 30.

No professional scrumhalf produced by Munster Academy since Murray who made his debut in 2010.

There has been plenty of opportunity for a quality young scrumhalf at Munster, there just hasn't been any to step up into that void.

Thankfully there appears to be some quality coming through the system now.

If Ulster academy scrum half Johnny Stewart is on your list of players then why aren't the academy players at Munster on your list? You mentioned them afterwards but why leave them off your list if Johnny Stewart is included.

If the job of the club's is to produce players for the national team that would make it

Munster: 3
Leinster: 1
Connacht: 1
Ulster: 1

So why aren't other provinces producing scrumhalves for the national team?

Squidgy Black

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

If Ulster academy scrum half Johnny Stewart is on your list of players then why aren't the academy players at Munster on your list? You mentioned them afterwards but why leave them off your list if Johnny Stewart is included.

If the job of the club's is to produce players for the national team that would make it

Munster: 3
Leinster: 1
Connacht: 1
Ulster: 1

So why aren't other provinces producing scrumhalves for the national team?

There's no scrumhalves in the munster academy from last year actually.

scrights

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

If Ulster academy scrum half Johnny Stewart is on your list of players then why aren't the academy players at Munster on your list? You mentioned them afterwards but why leave them off your list if Johnny Stewart is included.

If the job of the club's is to produce players for the national team that would make it

Munster: 3
Leinster: 1
Connacht: 1
Ulster: 1

So why aren't other provinces producing scrumhalves for the national team?

Munster don't have any scrumhalves in their academy.

Stringer/O'Leary haven't played for the national teams, munster get credit for developing them 10+ years ago

Recent development of professional scrumhalves has been very poor since Murray.

And yes they obviously get massive credit for developing Murray, but it's not really about that.

Paul Smeenus

Is Ian Porter no longer playing professionally somewhere?

The Lost Sheep

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Is Ian Porter no longer playing professionally somewhere?

Played AIL with Banbridge this season

scrights

Some excellent underage scrumhalves in the system:

U20
Jack Lyons(Munster)
Jack Stafford(Munster)
Ryan Feehily(Connacht)
U19
Hugh O'Sullivan(Leinster)
James Kenny(Leinster)
Patrick Patterson(Leinster)
Jonny Stewart(Ulster)
Rhys O'Donnell(Ulster)
U18
Craig Casey(Munster)

Locke_Lamora

How are Leinster going to organise three quality scrumhalves in the same year group? Getting them all sufficient game time would be pretty difficult, so it would be unreasonable to expect them all to graduate from the academy at the same time.

bilston

There is some serious scrum half talent at U19 level. They're also coming through at the right time from an Ireland POV. These guys will be around 25 or so when Murray hangs up the boots.

Locke_Lamora

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

How are Leinster going to organise three quality scrumhalves in the same year group? Getting them all sufficient game time would be pretty difficult, so it would be unreasonable to expect them all to graduate from the academy at the same time.

The rather large caveat here is that I've never seen any of them play but apparently this guy O'Sullivan is pretty exceptional at his level. Someone is going to lose out.

Squidgy Black

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

How are Leinster going to organise three quality scrumhalves in the same year group? Getting them all sufficient game time would be pretty difficult, so it would be unreasonable to expect them all to graduate from the academy at the same time.

There's a good chance not all 3 will get an academy spot, let alone graduate at the same time. Wouldn't be surprised to see two in the academy and one be offered sub academy or something along those lines.

K3v

Peter Lydon - London Scottish?

Squidgy Black

K3v wrote: »

Peter Lydon - London Scottish?

He's a 10 not a scrumhalf no?

scrights

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

There's a good chance not all 3 will get an academy spot, let alone graduate at the same time. Wouldn't be surprised to see two in the academy and one be offered sub academy or something along those lines.

O'Sullivan is joining the academy this summer straight from school.

Kenny/Patterson joining sub academy, either one or both could join academy next summer.

Best group of underage scrumhalves Leinster have developed in the academy age.

O'Sullivan best 9 through system since Luke McGrath, potentially better at same age due to not as many concerns over pass.

Bazzo

Dravokivich wrote: »

I thought Exiles would have been Players who came up in Ireland, but then went to play elsewhere, as opposed to came in from elsewhere? Are you afraid to allude to Projects/Grannies?

???? The Irish Exiles is the name of the organisation. http://irishexiles.co.uk

The Lost Sheep

Dravokivich wrote: »

I thought Exiles would have been Players who came up in Ireland, but then went to play elsewhere, as opposed to came in from elsewhere? Are you afraid to allude to Projects/Grannies?

Irish exiles are players like Marmion, Kieran Treadwell. Irish eligible who grew up abroad and then joined irish system through irish exiles.
http://www.irishrugby.ie/provincial/exiles/index.php

Theyre the 5th branch of IRFU after the provinces. Have an under 18 team that competes against Under 18 club provincial sides each August before those sides play their inteprovincial games. They also have older sides that sometimes play.

HankScorpio102

scrights wrote: »

O'Sullivan is joining the academy this summer straight from school.

Kenny/Patterson joining sub academy, either one or both could join academy next summer.

Best group of underage scrumhalves Leinster have developed in the academy age.

O'Sullivan best 9 through system since Luke McGrath, potentially better at same age due to not as many concerns over pass.

Kenny and Patterson are overrated imo. Especially Kenny. O'Sullivan is quality. Not sure if I'd say he's better than McGrath was at that age but definitely the best since McGrath by a long distance.

scrights

HankScorpio102 wrote: »

Kenny and Patterson are overrated imo. Especially Kenny. O'Sullivan is quality. Not sure if I'd say he's better than McGrath was at that age but definitely the best since McGrath by a long distance.

overrated how? they are both considered good prospects at 9.. which they are.

they have their flaws which hopefully they can iron out next season in the sub academy.