Laptops (likely) to be banned from cabins - EU to US flights

V_Moth

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/us-may-expand-laptop-ban-to-all-european-flights-1.3078774

After the initial test run of banning laptops/devices from the Middle East, it looks like this idiotic 'security theater' is being extended to EU-US flights.

Leaving highly flammable batteries in the cargo hold with no access is just asking for trouble, especially now that it seems that Halon does very little to stop/suppress Li/Ion fires:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/05/10/u-s-to-ban-laptops-in-all-cabins-of-flights-from-europe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd0EzQaEiZQ

Simon Gruber Says

Would that affect Ireland really though, since all flights from here to the US are technically domestic flights?

nsa0bupkd3948x

Simon Gruber Says wrote: »

Would that affect Ireland really though, since all flights from here to the US are technically domestic flights?

Abu Dhabi pre-clear as well but they are affected by the current ban.

Edited to add Not sure if they do US security or just US Customs/Immigration

ectoraige

Sigh. American have begun ditching their in-seat entertainment in lieu of free wifi on the basis that 90% of passengers have their own devices. I'm flying with them this summer with my family and we didn't mind missing out on in-seat entertainment as we the tickets were quite cheap. I just checked the suggested dimensions and even a 2DS is too large, so I guess it'll be old-fashioned colouring books and throwing crayons at other passengers to keep the children entertained.

jjbrien

I really cant see it happening due to the business traveler market. The industry would start to pressure the US goverment to back track on it pretty fast as a lot will start doing meetings online instead of in person. Company I work with for example is a phama company they dont allow laptops be put in checked luggage. Business class would empty out fast.

L1011

Nearly every company bans staff from checking laptops, even encrypted ones. Can see a few urgent installs of Lync and decent video conferencing kit coming up!

goingnowhere

L1011 wrote: »

Nearly every company bans staff from checking laptops, even encrypted ones. Can see a few urgent installs of Lync and decent video conferencing kit coming up!

Well yes but rules change, 10 years ago there was no encryption..

Your company rules probably say to hand over your laptop to law enforcement if they demand. Company rules cannot override local law no matter how stupid it might be.

Big question here is Dublin and Shannon, we have TSA level screening (which is well below the excellent performance of DAA security), customs and immigration and the flights in fact are conducted to US FAA rules en route the US. This could be seriously happy days for EI at Dublin.

jjbrien

goingnowhere wrote: »

Well yes but rules change, 10 years ago there was no encryption..

Your company rules probably say to hand over your laptop to law enforcement if they demand. Company rules cannot override local law no matter how stupid it might be.

Big question here is Dublin and Shannon, we have TSA level screening (which is well below the excellent performance of DAA security), customs and immigration and the flights in fact are conducted to US FAA rules en route the US. This could be seriously happy days for EI at Dublin.

Very much doubt they will make an exception for flights from Ireland as a previous poster said

goingnowhere

The flights from pre clearance are considered to be US domestic and screened to TSA or better standard, both carry on and checked get checked twice

What will get interesting is US carriers in EU seem to adopt a extra security measures while the local carriers don't

What is scary is security standards in Europe are probably better than US, places like India are where I would be concerned, Russia not concerned, they X-ray bags just to get into the building

Gamebred

Is there air marshalls on flights from Ireland to the states?

knockon

Gamebred wrote: »

Is there air marshalls on flights from Ireland to the states?[/quote

Yes-. United had more than 2 onboard a recent EWR-SNN and visa versa on the outbound. It's random.

Gamebred

knockon wrote: »

Gamebred wrote: »

Is there air marshalls on flights from Ireland to the states?[/quote

Yes-. United had more than 2 onboard a recent EWR-SNN and visa versa on the outbound. It's random.

Cool, how do you know I thought they were undercover.

L1011

goingnowhere wrote: »

Well yes but rules change, 10 years ago there was no encryption..

Your company rules probably say to hand over your laptop to law enforcement if they demand. Company rules cannot override local law no matter how stupid it might be.

Big question here is Dublin and Shannon, we have TSA level screening (which is well below the excellent performance of DAA security), customs and immigration and the flights in fact are conducted to US FAA rules en route the US. This could be seriously happy days for EI at Dublin.

Full disk encryption is much more than ten yeara old and was common in tech, legal a medical firms by then

Infini

I'd wait and see on this. The whole laptop ban from crazy east countries is expected since thats the crazy peoples home turf but the EU would be a different ball game both in logistics and opposition. Would expect heavy governmental and buisness opposition against it. Really security is thorough on the Eu side anyway expecially since they actually tell you to remove the laptop from its bag so it can be scanned individually.

The only incident of a laptop bomb was on that Ethiopian Airlines flight which only got the bomber a darwin award and an expressway down to the ground. No innocent lives were lost. It only got through cos of corrupt airport staff as well.

john boye

Been reading that US DHS and EASA are at loggerheads over this. EASA don't want multiple lithium devices kept in the hold.

faceman

I'm flying to LAX soon with just hand luggage. Really hoping the ban doesn't happen.

Steve

john boye wrote: »

Been reading that US DHS and EASA are at loggerheads over this. EASA don't want multiple lithium devices kept in the hold.

This.

L-ion batteries are not allowed in checked baggage on most carriers, the fire risk is too great.

All modern devices, laptops, tablets, etc use them so how is this going to work?

A cabin fire is easier to deal with than a hold fire.

artanevilla

Whats the logic here?

If its to prevent fire in the cabin, then you're just moving the fire to the hold.

If its to prevent explosives being smuggled, they they're saying the current passenger screening process is not good enough to prevent explosives getting through into the cabin.

This suggests that they feel that whatever methods they use for screening hold baggage is the only way to detect explosives, so then when don't they employ these methods on cabin baggage?

Or if its not due to more effective screening, then they're just moving any potential explosives to the hold which really doesn't make a difference.

If they just want to inconvenience passengers, then absolutely it makes sense.

ThisRegard

Apparently the basis behind it was due to some intelligence shared with the US from another country who have a source close to ISIS, which Trump subsequently shared with Russia the other day.

BlinkingLights

This could really damage the airline industry. It's not 1997 and these devices are ubiquitous.

JCX BXC

It will be interesting to see what the story is with the pre-cleared flights, as really I'd say they're more secure than say internal US flights due to all the security they endure.

Also worth mentioning that during the morning, Shannon Airport already operates to both EASA and FAS standards, and that's just the regular security.

dropzone

Steve wrote: »

L-ion batteries are not allowed in checked baggage on most carriers, the fire risk is too great.

All modern devices, laptops, tablets, etc use them so how is this going to work?

I know that L-ion devices are banned from the hold but I've never been stopped or had any L-ion battery device removed from my hold baggage. That includes laptops and e-cigarettes.

An immediate ban on large electronic items from the cabin and hold will throw airports into chaos.

BigMoose

I was under the impression the ban from the cabin was to stop bomb parts being hidden in the back of laptops and assembled in the cabin. In parts, it wont blow up in the hold. Not much use though if the battery explodes instead!

munchkin_utd

BigMoose wrote: »

I was under the impression the ban from the cabin was to stop bomb parts being hidden in the back of laptops and assembled in the cabin. In parts, it wont blow up in the hold. Not much use though if the battery explodes instead!

the other side of it is that a bag in the hold might explode but is padded/ diffused by all other bags around it so mightnt cause all that much damage.

A bomb in the cabin on the other hand can be placed by the shell of the aircraft and blow a hole in it, which would be a bad thing to happen under pressure at 40000 feet . So thats why they are looking to ban them in the cabin rather than the hold.

Dardania

Sometimes not even having a Li-ion battery in the cabin is enough:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_804#Investigation

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Irish Steve

munchkin_utd wrote: »

the other side of it is that a bag in the hold might explode but is padded/ diffused by all other bags around it so mightnt cause all that much damage.

A bomb in the cabin on the other hand can be placed by the shell of the aircraft and blow a hole in it, which would be a bad thing to happen under pressure at 40000 feet . So thats why they are looking to ban them in the cabin rather than the hold.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the hold of the aircraft is also pressurised, and depending on which container it's in, the distance from the external skin could be exactly the same as if it were in an overhead locker, so there is no advantage to be gained from putting laptops in the hold, it has the potential to cause as much damage there as if it were in the main cabin

Noxegon

dropzone wrote: »

I know that L-ion devices are banned from the hold but I've never been stopped or had any L-ion battery device removed from my hold baggage. That includes laptops and e-cigarettes.

That's irresponsible at best – you really shouldn't be doing that.

Noxegon

No extension of the ban:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39956968

Locker10a

Noxegon wrote: »

dropzone wrote: »

I know that L-ion devices are banned from the hold but I've never been stopped or had any L-ion battery device removed from my hold baggage. That includes laptops and e-cigarettes.

That's irresponsible at best – you really shouldn't be doing that.

My understand is that only spare or extra lithium-ion batteries are banned from hold luggage. So a laptop is ok, a laptop plus a spare laptop battery is banned

ectoraige

Noxegon wrote: »

No extension of the ban:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39956968

I wonder if the 'other' measures might be requiring devices over a certain size being surrendered to cabin crew for the duration of the flight. Logistical nightmare for the airlines.

PaulKK

Can someone explain why US bound flights from Dublin must pass the TSA level security scan on top of the standard one?

As far as I can determine they just scan the hand luggage again, and if you are unlucky enough go through the body scanner, otherwise the metal detector.

Could they not have some sort of arrangement where the normal security is done to a standard to satisfy the US rules too?

It seems a bit ridiculous considering when you fly back from the states its generally the bog standard security check.

Hotblack Desiato

Because to all intents and purposes you're clearing US Customs (not just immigration) while still in DUB, and when you arrive you're treated the same as a domestic arrival.

Not all flights ex-DUB are pre-cleared though.