Crows - why do you see them as vermin?

Ms Doubtfire1

Lots of people call crows Vermin and pests. I am totally at large why. They are highly intelligent, social. they mate for life (exceptions granted but few and far in between),the various murders have their own dialect, can recognize and remember faces (this I know as i feed my crows in winter and they don't warn the others anymore when i come over),they pass in knowledge and are able to learn.
Why do people see them as vermin?

optogirl

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

Lots of people call crows Vermin and pests. I am totally at large why. They are highly intelligent, social. they mate for life (exceptions granted but few and far in between),the various murders have their own dialect, can recognize and remember faces (this I know as i feed my crows in winter and they don't warn the others anymore when i come over),they pass in knowledge and are able to learn.
Why do people see them as vermin?

I don't and I resent the insinuation!

skallywag

Crows can also imitate the sounds of other birds very accurately, and can even be thought how to talk.

kathleen37

I too think the corvids are fascinating. I especially love Rooks, and for the first time this year, we have a new Rookery!!

I would guess people think the main carrion eaters/omnivores are pests due to the damage they can cause to livestock. Though the insect/grain eaters would be considered pests due to their huge crop intake.

I still think they are wonderful.

DeadHand

If you'd ever come across a newborn lamb with its eyeballs and innards ripped out by crows you might revise your opinion.

Crows are numerous creatures that live off human activities and for the most part are detrimental to them. They are vermin and pests by definition- "consider" doesn't enter into it.

You have no business feeding the things anymore than you would cultivating a nest of rats in your garden. If you have close neighbours you are doing them a serious disservice.

Cherry Blossom

There was a fella on here a few years back rescued a baby Crow and kept it as a pet. Joe the Crow I think he called it. He used to put pics up in the photo thread.

Mooooo

Will on farm is the sheer cost of damage they do and can do to livestock namely lambs and occasionally calves if they are brave, have seen a crow land behind a cow calving and attempt to pick the eyes from the calf which was only half way out of the cow, and to feed supplies. the damage they do to silage pits and feed supplies is frightening as well as transmitting of disease they can literally cause thousands worth of damage and waste. They are intelligent so difficult to keep away from feed stocks and particularly with the sheer numbers of them

Ms Doubtfire1

DeadHand wrote: »

If you'd ever come across a newborn lamb with its eyeballs and innards ripped out by crows you might revise your opinion.

Crows are numerous creatures that live off human activities and for the most part are detrimental to them. They are vermin and pests by definition- "consider" doesn't enter into it.  

You have no business feeding the things anymore than you would cultivating a nest of rats in your garden. If you have close neighbours you are doing them a serious disservice.

Well, I disagree. I love crows. They existed thousands of years before mankind and simply adapted to our lifestyle of throwing garbage and food remains everywhere. So, since my murder is located on MY land, I will do as i see fit. 
Every farmer should be well able to bring their valuable sheep in at lambing time, to avoid anything happening to them. Animals and humans share this world, humans don't own it.

kathleen37

Yeah - I've seen the damage that can be done, and because of that I have no love for magpies and hooded/grey crows.

There is a big difference in the different types and what they eat however.

This is a good summary;

https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/bird-and-wildlife-guides/browse-bird-families/crows.aspx

Knine

I don't mind Crows etc but neighbours feeding them is a nightmare. I had to powerwash my car last weekend it was so bad. Absolutely covered in bird ****, even the door handles. Disgusting because some selfish neighbour put out bread for them.

NIMAN

Need advice here.

I regularly throw out any leftover bread, and usually within a few minutes I have a pile of crows fighting over it in my back garden.

So, I shouldn't be doing this?

Genuinely, can someone list the harm they(I) am doing?

kathleen37

NIMAN wrote: »

Need advice here.

I regularly throw out any leftover bread, and usually within a few minutes I have a pile of crows fighting over it in my back garden.

So, I shouldn't be doing this?

Genuinely, can someone list the harm they(I) am doing?

You know, one person throwing out leftovers in the grand scheme of thing, wouldn't be doing much of anything I think.

When everyone starts doing that however...

As I say, we have rooks which we've had for years. And YES - the poo is just terrible!!! I wasn't aware until we had the rookery this year. But they genuinely give me such pleasure watching them nest building, using tools, and just being fantastic - the inconvenience is worth it for me.

And then I guess is there the logic that if people feed them, they then aren't heading off to the crops/livestock?

I have no answers unfortunately. I just try and educate myself about stuff and then do what I can in helping me sleep at night.

For example, I genuinely understand why some people shoot foxes, and the reasons they do it. Would I ever shoot a fox? Never.

Dyr

Do crows do more damage to the countryside than farmers?

kathleen37

Bambi wrote: »

Do crows do more damage to the countryside than farmers?

Ouch.

*battensdownhatches*

DeadHand

Bambi wrote: »

Do crows do more damage to the countryside than farmers?

Do you like not starving to death?

Ms Doubtfire1

DeadHand wrote: »

Bambi wrote: »

Do crows do more damage to the countryside than farmers?

Do you like not starving to death?

The usual response from the farming community. Farmers do more damage to the natural habitat than any animal.
Do we depend on you for our food? to a degree - we can buy anywhere and from anyone.Do YOU depend on US to buy YOUR food. You do indeed. i suggest you keep that in mind before throwing out generic comments.Farmers are necessary but there are various way to farm. It doesn't cost much to protect your lifestock, bring the pregnant ones in over night. But, something I ALWAYS see from the farming community is blaming the birds, the badgers, the foxes. So, excuse me if I don't believe for a minute there is not a better solution than killing who was here first.

Dirty horrible yokes and as big a pest on the farm as rats. From destroying the plastic on round bales (thus costing a lot of money and putting food for animals at risk of damage) to picking the eyes out of sheep and blinding them, to covering the place in s*ite and many many more things. They also destroy lawns constantly picking at the grass. The only reason we aren't laying poison for them as we do for rats is the difficult in ensuring it's only crows and not other birds that eat it.

I'd also strongly contest the argument that they are in anyway smart. How smart can you be if you pick at plastic over and over and expect it to be food?

DeadHand

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

Well, I disagree. I love crows. So, since my murder is located on MY land, I will do as i see fit. 
Every farmer should be well able to bring their valuable sheep in at lambing time, to avoid anything happening to them

Love doesn't conquer classification I'm afraid- they are vermin by any definition, you can love them as passionately as possible and they will still be vermin.

Every person should be well able to keep rats out of their homes- they're not, doesn't make rats any less vermin.

I strongly support your right to festoon YOUR land with virulent pests if that satisfies you- as long as no one else suffers as a result of such nonsense.

Ms Doubtfire1

DeadHand wrote: »

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

Well, I disagree. I love crows. So, since my murder is located on MY land, I will do as i see fit. 
Every farmer should be well able to bring their valuable sheep in at lambing time, to avoid anything happening to them

Love doesn't conquer classification I'm afraid- they are vermin by any definition,  you can love them as passionately as possible and they will still be vermin.

Every person should be well able to keep rats out of their homes- they're not, doesn't make rats any less vermin.

I strongly support your right to festoon YOUR land with virulent pests if that satisfies you- as long as no one else suffers as a result of such nonsense.

That would be their problem than isn't it?

DeadHand

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

That would be their problem than isn't it?

Yes, caused by the selfish, ignorant actions of someone else.

Ms Doubtfire1

I'd also strongly contest the argument that they are in anyway smart. How smart can you be if you pick at plastic over and over and expect it to be food?

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]that's funny Nox. They actually want to get at the silage.[/font]

Ms Doubtfire1

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

That would be their problem than isn't it?

When a local farmer comes out with the double barrel and gets rid of the crows you are drawing around the area you might regret attracting them.

You are essentially drawing rats.

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

I'd also strongly contest the argument that they are in anyway smart. How smart can you be if you pick at plastic over and over and expect it to be food?

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]that's funny Nox. They actually want to get at the silage.[/font]

They are atttracted by the shiny plastic and probably think there is worms in the silage or something. They certainly don't want to eat silage.

Ms Doubtfire1

DeadHand wrote: »

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

That would be their problem than isn't it?

Yes, caused by the selfish, ignorant actions of someone else.

What goes around comes around. Now, i'm going to put you on my ignore list before I get a slap from a mod for fighting. Toodeloo.

DBB

Okeydoke.
From the moment this thread started, I thought "uh oh", but then my charitable side broke out in me, and I thought "we're all adults here, aren't we? We've all read the sticky about respecting each other for those moments where we forget we're adults, haven't we? We can DO this... Can't we?"
No such bloody luck.
Thread closed.