Have you bought a pedigree Bull that doesn't last?

Never wrestle with pigs

As the title says Have you bought a pedigree Bull that doesn't last?
Bought two bulls over the last two years and the feet have gone to ****e.
Both pushed to hard when they were young and the feet give up on them when they get bigger and heavier. Man next door the same number of bulls in the same time. Different breeds.

I won't be buying another fancy Bull anymore, going to buy a lad 4/5/6 years old that a lad is moving on because he's keeping heifers etc.

Is many of you getting caught with bulls like this that are not lasting like they should?

patsy_mccabe

Do you continue to feed them after you buy them? The sudden change in diet doesn't help. Good to buy the bull early, well in advance of when you need him. Ease him off the meal slowly then.
I've started to breed a few ped Lim bulls and it's a catch 22 situation. If you don't feed them, they wont look as good as other well fed bulls.

Never wrestle with pigs

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Do you continue to feed them after you buy them? The sudden change in diet doesn't help. Good to buy the bull early, well in advance of when you need him. Ease him off the meal slowly then.
I've started to breed a few ped Lim bulls and it's a catch 22 situation. If you don't feed them, they wont look as good as other well fed bulls.

Ya I bought about 4 months before I needed them. Continued meal for 3/4 months gradually weaning them off it and go to work then out in the field. No bulling on slats or anything. On straw all winter. Grand year one not great year two and fcuked year 3. Too many soft ped bulls around now. Getting a hardy oils buck now to hell.

cotton_picker

bought a bull off a well known breeder who is very high up in the breeds society

he was cheap but the calves were as big as elephants ,he lasted a season

Count Mondego

Bought a good LM pedigree bull last year, and he was ****ed by July. I got a shock in may when I had to pare his hoof but he hurt his shoulder bulling a heifers and after a few weeks treatment he didn't recover. Got the bullet. Only two years old. At least he had the cows bulled.

Parishlad

Count Mondego wrote: »

Bought a good LM pedigree bull last year, and he was ****ed by July. I got a shock in may when I had to pare his hoof but he hurt his shoulder bulling a heifers and after a few weeks treatment he didn't recover. Got the bullet. Only two years old. At least he had the cows bulled.

Did you have him insured?

I got a new ped Lim bull this year and paid a pretty penny for him. Have been debating whether or not I should insure him. I'm leaning towards taking out the insurance on him for the first year anyway.

Mooooo

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Ya I bought about 4 months before I needed them. Continued meal for 3/4 months gradually weaning them off it and go to work then out in the field. No bulling on slats or anything. On straw all winter. Grand year one not great year two and fcuked year 3. Too many soft ped bulls around now. Getting a hardy oils buck now to hell.

Have they concrete to walk on when on the straw? If not that may be an issue as the hooves may go soft without a bit of hard ground. In Clon they put a mat in the bullpen to lie on and left the rest concrete. Have an aa here for 5 seasons now 9 years old going strong touch wood.

visatorro

Find some pure bred are left in sheds on straw for handiness if nothing else. Better off buying an old dog of a yoke off a mountain. Two most expensive buys I had here were worst bulls I ever had. One Hereford did feck all and a friesan left donkeys behind him.
Saying that a bull was infertile once and breeder replaced him with bull he would have charged 5000 euro for. His stock are the bedrock of the herd here now. I paid 1600 for previous bull.

Bellview

I'm one of those breeders selling. Agree on feet especially for bulls that walk a lot. My last stock bull I had for 6 years and I sold him into another pedigree herd as I had too many daughters so hard to manage herd...but his feet were never touched and he was over a ton on concrete etc..no special treatment.
When buying myself feet is where I always start..at a recent show and sale the bull selected as champion was 14 months old and it was easy see his front hoof had been pared...which generally means his hoofs will go.
What I find interesting is that the same herds generally have bad feet .

Never wrestle with pigs

Mooooo wrote: »

Have they concrete to walk on when on the straw? If not that may be an issue as the hooves may go soft without a bit of hard ground. In Clon they put a mat in the bullpen to lie on and left the rest concrete. Have an aa here for 5 seasons now 9 years old going strong touch wood.

Ya about 10 foot at the feed barrier is bare concrete as I was afraid of making him to soft for the reason you say. It's a pain in the ass.

Never wrestle with pigs

Parishlad wrote: »

Did you have him insured?

I got a new ped Lim bull this year and paid a pretty penny for him. Have been debating whether or not I should insure him. I'm leaning towards taking out the insurance on him for the first year anyway.

I tried last time and they would only insure him the first week I bought him. After that they wouldn't insure him!

Parishlad

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

I tried last time and they would only insure him the first week I bought him. After that they wouldn't insure him!

Oh well, if that's the case then he won't get insured. I'll give them a call anyway and see what they say.

orm0nd

The hooves are a indication if the animal has been force fed close horizontal lines are an indicator if it appears that they were filed avoid straight away

White Clover

Bellview wrote: »

I'm one of those breeders selling. Agree on feet especially for bulls that walk a lot. My last stock bull I had for 6 years and I sold him into another pedigree herd as I had too many daughters so hard to manage herd...but his feet were never touched and he was over a ton on concrete etc..no special treatment.
When buying myself feet is where I always start..at a recent show and sale the bull selected as champion was 14 months old and it was easy see his front hoof had been pared...which generally means his hoofs will go.
What I find interesting is that the same herds generally have bad feet .

I wouldn't agree on the front hoof part of your post. There can be many reasons. Know of a bull being trained to lead by its owner, he had him tied to a back loader on a tractor and was leading him slowly, the bull was getting fed up, he wore the sole off one hoof pawing the road, hoof trimmer had to do bit of tidying up on it.

Bellview

White Clover wrote:

I wouldn't agree on the front hoof part of your post. There can be many reasons. Know of a bull being trained to lead by its owner, he had him tied to a back loader on a tractor and was leading him slowly, the bull was getting fed up, he wore the sole off one hoof pawing the road, hoof trimmer had to do bit of tidying up on it.

Maybe but all this bull hoofs were flat and from my experience he will have trouble.but I could be wrong..

patsy_mccabe

First pedigree heifer I bought had bad feet. She was walking tender on them, Didn't bother me as I put it down to too much feeding. Fed her for a while and she never had an issue since. Her hooves are well hardened up too.

whelan2

Bought a bull from a man in wexford years ago which turned out infertile, he gave us a replacement. Bought a fr bull and nearly every single 1 of his calves died. While all the calves from ai and aa bulls lived no problem. Have sold loads of aa bulls and only had 1 come back, apparently the bull was wicked, found out after farmer was going after bull with prongs of loader :mad:

Pidae.m

Always insure a bull for his first year anyways

Parishlad wrote: »

Did you have him insured?

I got a new ped Lim bull this year and paid a pretty penny for him. Have been debating whether or not I should insure him. I'm leaning towards taking out the insurance on him for the first year anyway.

Count Mondego

Parishlad wrote: »

Did you have him insured?

I got a new ped Lim bull this year and paid a pretty penny for him. Have been debating whether or not I should insure him. I'm leaning towards taking out the insurance on him for the first year anyway.

No, thought it was a waste of money :-)

Have the current lad insured, 10℅ of purchase price.

Never wrestle with pigs

orm0nd wrote: »

The hooves are a indication if the animal has been force fed close horizontal lines are an indicator if it appears that they were filed avoid straight away

Looked this evening and he has close horizontal lines on his feet! Interesting one to look out for thanks.

charolais0153

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Looked this evening and he has close horizontal lines on his feet! Interesting one to look out for thanks.

How long do u want the average bull to last for?

Never wrestle with pigs

charolais0153 wrote: »

How long do u want the average bull to last for?

You'd want him to at least see six years old you'd think if not a few along with it.

Limestone Cowboy

Bought a bull 2 years ago and only had 5 calves out of him. Had a wart on his rod when I bought him and the breeder didn't really want to know about it, I let it slide and got our own vets to take it off out of my own pocket at the end of the breeding season. Let him off the following year with cows again and after a week a neighbors bull came in and hit him a puck and broke his rod. Took a fine hit on him but was glad to see him gone for a finish, wasn't a minutes luck in him.

whelan2

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

You'd want him to at least see six years old you'd think if not a few along with it.

You'd be very lucky if a bull lasted that long. Apart from injury and lameness, temperament could be another factor.Then you'd also have to watch for inbreeding with daughters coming through

Tyson Lannister

Breed pedigree bulls myself - have one born in September, 5 stars all round lovely animal. He was born last August, his feet are fine but it looks like he hurt his back.

I had the vet out and he thinks he may have been trying to jump on a heifer or something and fell back on slats. He couldn't really do anything with him. He couldn't pinpoint the injury either.

He has improved since he left the shed, but is still stiff walking around, especially after he gets up.

I wonder what are my options with him now, will he have to go for beef I suppose..

GiantPencil

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Bought a bull 2 years ago and only had 5 calves out of him. Had a wart on his rod when I bought him and the breeder didn't really want to know about it, I let it slide and got our own vets to take it off out of my own pocket at the end of the breeding season. Let him off the following year with cows again and after a week a neighbors bull came in and hit him a puck and broke his rod. Took a fine hit on him but was glad to see him gone for a finish, wasn't a minutes luck in him.

Had a bull with warts like that on his rod too but vet said he couldn't do anything for it. Bull was to be going to a show & sale but had to kill him instead...he had cows in calf and all but felt he'd be sent back to me as soon as new owner would see the issue.....he graded out U+2 though so it wasn't all bad!

Limestone Cowboy

GiantPencil wrote: »

Had a bull with warts like that on his rod too but vet said he couldn't do anything for it. Bull was to be going to a show & sale but had to kill him instead...he had cows in calf and all but felt he'd be sent back to me as soon as new owner would see the issue.....he graded out U+2 though so it wasn't all bad!

I should have thrown him back and demanded my money back in hindsight, won't be going back to the same fella for a bull again anyway or recommending him to anyone else. Bad business on his behalf.

Who2

whelan2 wrote: »

You'd be very lucky if a bull lasted that long. Apart from injury and lameness, temperament could be another factor.Then you'd also have to watch for inbreeding with daughters coming through

I'd be fair disappointed if he only lasted that long. I've had a bull until ten year old, a neighbour killed a twelve year old one and I know numerous others who've had them to that age.

charolais0153

Who2 wrote: »

I'd be fair disappointed if he only lasted that long. I've had a bull until ten year old, a neighbour killed a twelve year old one and I know numerous others who've had them to that age.

The majority of them don't last that long.... Does anyone know what the average bull lasts for.....

Who2

charolais0153 wrote: »

The majority of them don't last that long.... Does anyone know what the average bull lasts for.....

If they are producing the goods and you know they are crossing well, then why change . It's all limo and ch bulls here and I've only ever had one go wrong. I've currently a seven year old bull and a 16 month bull. Sold a six year old ch last week but that's because he wasn't producing what I wanted. All treated the same as other stock and left to bull on the slats.

charolais0153

Who2 wrote: »

If they are producing the goods and you know they are crossing well, then why change . It's all limo and ch bulls here and I've only ever had one go wrong. I've currently a seven year old bull and a 16 month bull. Sold a six year old ch last week but that's because he wasn't producing what I wanted. All treated the same as other stock and left to bull on the slats.

I didn't mean to change them but how old was that bull when you bought him?

What's the new bull out of

Who2

charolais0153 wrote: »

I didn't mean to change them but how old was that bull when you bought him?

What's the new bull out of

Usually buy around the 14 - 20 month stage. The one that got to ten was bought at six year old. Looked roughish but was producing. He was well over the ton when we hung him up and we were starting to worry about the heifers getting hurt,. The new lads by zag. Nice lines and wasn't overly pushed. I've thrown him in with a mix of a few heifers and cows and if I don't like the calves he'll get gate, I nearly moved the seven year old a few years back but luckily I didn't. He got a reprieve when his bulls averaged 3.60 a kilo.

charolais0153

Who2 wrote: »

Usually buy around the 14 - 20 month stage. The one that got to ten was bought at six year old. Looked roughish but was producing. He was well over the ton when we hung him up and we were starting to worry about the heifers getting hurt,. The new lads by zag. Nice lines and wasn't overly pushed. I've thrown him in with a mix of a few heifers and cows and if I don't like the calves he'll get gate, I nearly moved the seven year old a few years back but luckily I didn't. He got a reprieve when his bulls averaged 3.60 a kilo.

Phrased it wrong..the bull you sold when he was 6, what was he when you bought him

Who2

charolais0153 wrote: »

Phrased it wrong..the bull you sold when he was 6, what was he when you bought him

14 months, he was a bull then too.