Dyche, Howe, Allardyce - will an English manager ever win the Premier League?

onemorechance

Interesting article on the lack of English managers in the PL, and their lack of titles.

This season's 25th instalment also marks a quarter of a century since Howard Wilkinson became the last Englishman to guide a club to become champions of England.

... glory has been tasted by two Scots, a Frenchman, a Portuguese, a Chilean and, when Antonio Conte completes the job with Chelsea, four Italians.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39765098

ERG89

And therein lies a problem. Neither United or Arsenal have had an English boss since 1986. Chelsea's last full-time English manager was in 1996, while City haven't looked at home since the Abu Dhabi United group took over. Liverpool's only English stewardship since Roy Evans left in 1998 was Roy Hodgson's six months at Anfield.

Question asked, question answered.

eagle eye

ERG89 wrote: »

Question asked, question answered.

I wouldn't agree with that. He took over at a terrible with the old owners forced out and new ones taking over with things not going well and unsurprisingly it didn't work out.

irishman86

Id like to see Howe take over at Arsenal, for me the most talented English lad around

Skylinehead

irishman86 wrote: »

Id like to see Howe take over at Arsenal, for me the most talented English lad around

I wouldn't.

Harry Palmr

Hard to see the next native manager, the lack of them simply reflects the wider game with about one third of PL players being English. Foreign owners don't feel any obligation that's for sure.

irishman86

Skylinehead wrote: »

I wouldn't.

For me thats the problem with England. Allegri gets all sorts of plaudits because he worked his way to the top. Pep/Zidane gets promoted from within.
A concept foreign to the top teams in England
But in England its always going for the latest big thing, whom would you like?

Dirty Dingus McGee

There hasn't been a great English manager in that time so it's hardly a surprise to see non English manager has won the EPL. When you look at how often the other top 5 leagues are won by homegrown managers it shows there must be something wrong with the state of coaching in England.I guess it doesn't help that 2 of the top English clubs had the same manager for 20 years or more but even considering that there haven't been many english managers who'd be considered for a top level job.

I'd love to see someone like Sean Dyche get a big job.He's done very well at Burnley his teams play good football and I'd say he'd be a commanding presence in a dressing room.

Iused2likebusts

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

There hasn't been a great English manager in that time so it's hardly a surprise to see non English manager has won the EPL. When you look at how often the other top 5 leagues are won by homegrown managers it shows there must be something wrong with the state of coaching in England.I guess it doesn't help that 2 of the top English clubs had the same manager for 20 years or more but even considering that there haven't been many english managers who'd be considered for a top level job.

I'd love to see someone like Sean Dyche get a big job.He's done very well at Burnley his teams play good football and I'd say he'd be a commanding presence in a dressing room.

Dyche has done an unbelievable job at Burnley and gets absolutely everything from his players. However he hasnt really worked with foreign players at burnley its a team of british and irish players with one belgian player. They don't play good football and that's coming from somebody that half supports them and would regularly watch their games and have seen them live a few times. They are hardworking and organised.

Skylinehead

irishman86 wrote: »

For me thats the problem with England. Allegri gets all sorts of plaudits because he worked his way to the top. Pep/Zidane gets promoted from within.
A concept foreign to the top teams in England
But in England its always going for the latest big thing, whom would you like?

I want a proven top level manager. Eddie Howe is a massive risk, and is his record really that impressive? Bournemouth aren't some misers club these days.

As for Pep and Zidane, they couldn't be further from Eddie Howe. They were ingrained in the culture/styles of Barca and Madrid, and knew the clubs inside out, for years before becoming manager.

You'll find precious few Arsenal fans wanting Eddie Howe. Maybe some "romantic" fans from other clubs, but it's not them dealing with the risk.

DJIMI TRARORE

I wud guess that since Venables and Bobby Robson ,there hasn't been an English manager in the top bracket

~Rebel~

eagle eye wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that. He took over at a terrible with the old owners forced out and new ones taking over with things not going well and unsurprisingly it didn't work out.

Hodgson has a level. Every team he manages plays at that same level. That's great if it's a team below that level. It's bad if it's a team that should be above that level.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Dyche has done an unbelievable job at Burnley and gets absolutely everything from his players. However he hasnt really worked with foreign players at burnley its a team of british and irish players with one belgian player. They don't play good football and that's coming from somebody that half supports them and would regularly watch their games and have seen them live a few times. They are hardworking and organised.

They're decent enough to watch in my opinion, although I'm not as fussy as some people are about playing style's so maybe I'm more easily impressed. I quite like the type of up an atom football style they play.

~Rebel~

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

They're decent enough to watch in my opinion, although I'm not as fussy as some people are about playing style's so maybe I'm more easily impressed. I quite like the type of up an atom football style they play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDJ5Hljz2e8

Iused2likebusts

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

They're decent enough to watch in my opinion, although I'm not as fussy as some people are about playing style's so maybe I'm more easily impressed. I quite like the type of up an atom football style they play.

I don't mind it either and it suits Burnley. Its a working class town and they want a team that gives its all. However all the top teams would want a more sophisticated brand of football and I'd imagine its what would be required however Leicester did buck that trend. In a way its Leicester type football 442 however the players executing it at Burnley are limited. IMO no other manager would have kept that group of players up this year.

CSF

Well I mean eventually somebody probably will, but you'd struggle to pick the person from the current crop.

You'd figure Gerrard will eventually get a shot at Liverpool and Terry at Chelsea. Guessing how they'll get on is difficult to do. But when you're managing those clubs (all Liverpool Premier League jokes aside) you have a chance.


When you're managing the kinds of clubs that English managers are managing at the moment (and it would be hard to argue anyone merits more), your best bet is probably trying to defy 5000/1 odds like Leicester did. An uninviting task.

Collie D

Brain is frozen. Who was the Chilean?

Iused2likebusts

Collie D wrote: »

Brain is frozen. Who was the Chilean?

Pellegreni

Dirty Dingus McGee

~Rebel~ wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDJ5Hljz2e8

Thanks man. You've made my day.I would have genuinely been disappointed if I didn't get that reply from someone.

irishman86

Skylinehead wrote: »

I want a proven top level manager. Eddie Howe is a massive risk, and is his record really that impressive? Bournemouth aren't some misers club these days.

As for Pep and Zidane, they couldn't be further from Eddie Howe. They were ingrained in the culture/styles of Barca and Madrid, and knew the clubs inside out, for years before becoming manager.

You'll find precious few Arsenal fans wanting Eddie Howe. Maybe some "romantic" fans from other clubs, but it's not them dealing with the risk.

What top manager, why not promote from within/within the league. Its funny how often its done everywhere else beside England.
His record is pretty good.

Collie D

Ha. I actually don't think I knew that. Just always assumed he was Argentine for some reason

onemorechance

I think that language abilities, or lack of, has a lot to do with it. The article asks if English managers should go to Europe to gain experience or increase their profile. Roy Hodgson speaks 5 languages and had a long career in Europe and England. UEFA finals with Fulham and Inter. Titles with two clubs in Sweden. Neville went to Valencia with no Spanish and expected to get by on hair gel? Scottish Moyes had just failed and he claimed he'd learn Spanish in no time! I'm pretty sure that most of the successful foreign managers in the PL have been multi-lingual and could speak to many players in their native languages whilst Neville might as well still have been a pundit on tv with subtitles in Spanish.

monkey9

eagle eye wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that. He took over at a terrible with the old owners forced out and new ones taking over with things not going well and unsurprisingly it didn't work out.

I know you love Roy Hodgson, but the chap having Liverpool a few places above the relegation zone in Janurary is not acceptable. He was not acceptable.

monkey9

Skylinehead wrote: »

I wouldn't.

Agreed. Any suggestion of Eddie Howe taking over Arsenal is utterly ludricous.

keeponhurling

20+ years ago, most of the players and managers were English. So it figures that the title winners would have an English manager most of the time.
Now the majority of players and managers are not English, but not only that, given the money in the game they are generally the very best from their own countries. It's probably fair to say Conte is the best Italian manager, Pep the best Spanish manager, Mourinho the best Portugese manager, Koeman / VanGaal? the best Dutch managers etc. so of course you'd expect most years a non-English manager would win it.

Agent Coulson

I'd be pretty sure Craig Shakespeare thinks he really won the PL last season even though Ranieri gets the credit.


So maybe an Englishman has won it in all but name.



Hodgson, Moyes, & Rodgers failures at Liverpool & Utd will hamper any future manager from these Islands getting a job at the big 5/6 clubs in the future.

Chardee MacDennis

irishman86 wrote: »

Pep/Zidane gets promoted from within.

At two of the biggest and most talented clubs in the world. To me it's less of a challenge than managing most English clubs.

I'll be very interested to see what Zidane does after Madrid...

keeponhurling

Chardee MacDennis wrote: »

irishman86 wrote: »

Pep/Zidane gets promoted from within.

At two of the biggest and most talented clubs in the world. To me it's less of a challenge than managing most English clubs.

I'll be very interested to see what Zidane does after Madrid...

Richard Hillman

The next english winner will be a relative unknown player. I get the impression from a lot of older-retired established players that they are a bit work-shy, self-entitled and like to cut corners.

I'm looking toward Gerrard. He took the U18 gig at Liverpool knowing full well that when Klopp gets sacked, he will be favourite for the job. Instead of having to earn his way back to Liverpool by taking the MK Dons job.

I am expecting to see guys like Terry and Lampard do the same at Chelsea. Get an underage gig, nobody will care if they win or lose, let fan and media power do its work.

Whatever happened to Ryan Giggs? The chap has managed 4 games in his life and he wont manage outside of the Premier League :pac: Shearer was another.


There is beginning to be a push away from celebrity managers down the leagues and looking for guys that are innovators and not just spoofers that use phrases like "Play the right way". The Established Celebrity Professionals will start to fall out of the game and into the TV Studios even more that they used to.

ERG89

Chardee MacDennis wrote:

To me it's less of a challenge than managing most English clubs.

It is & it isn't. You have a better squad but if Leicester won the league at your expence you'd be sacked. Cause the expected standard there is so much higher than anywhere in England. Imagine saying give us another year if you finish 15 or 20 points off the top. You'd have to imagine as they'd be told to f**k off.

LuckyLloyd

When you look at the statistics for the amount of 'A' Licences issued within the UK in comparison to the likes of Germany and Italy it's shocking:

http://buzz.bournemouth.ac.uk/2014/01/englands-coaching-problem-compare-rest-europe/

UEFA data shows that England has 1,395 coaches holding Uefa?s A and Pro qualification badges compared to Germany?s 6,934, Italy?s 2,281, France?s 3,308 and Spain?s whopping 15,423.

So I think a fundamental culture change is required within the English game. What I can say with a lot of confidence is that any current England coach we know about (i.e. holds a job in the top two tiers) won't win it. If you look around Europe, coaches (former elite players or no) generally tend to scale the mountain top relatively quickly. If Liverpool had won the league in 2014, Brendan Rodgers would have been in football management less than six years. But there are exceptions to every rule (Antonio Conte and Massimiliano Allegri), so never say never I guess.

Francie Barrett

I think money is a factor for English managers in not wanting to go abroad. If you're a young English manager and you are looking to make a career abroad, a realistic option would be a club in Portugal, Greece, or Belgium, or some lower half La Liga/Serie A team. I imagine a manager's salary at such a club would be less than what could be earned in even the Championship.

irishman86

Chardee MacDennis wrote: »

At two of the biggest and most talented clubs in the world. To me it's less of a challenge than managing most English clubs.

I'll be very interested to see what Zidane does after Madrid...

What about Wenger, Im sure the fans would have wanted someone else. Its funny how the tried and trusted fails so often in England but it doesnt stop someone else taking a bite

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When you look at the statistics for the amount of 'A' Licences issued within the UK in comparison to the likes of Germany and Italy it's shocking:

http://buzz.bournemouth.ac.uk/2014/01/englands-coaching-problem-compare-rest-europe/



So I think a fundamental culture change is required within the English game. What I can say with a lot of confidence is that any current England coach we know about (i.e. holds a job in the top two tiers) won't win it. If you look around Europe, coaches (former elite players or no) generally tend to scale the mountain top relatively quickly. If Liverpool had won the league in 2014, Brendan Rodgers would have been in football management less than six years. But there are exceptions to every rule (Antonio Conte and Massimiliano Allegri), so never say never I guess.

Properly shocking stuff, been the same for a long long time though.

Couple of years ago I started looking into how to get trained up in coaching and unfortunately location-wise and cost-wise ya need a car and disposable cash to even get on the lower rungs.