If buying a property outright, is a solicitor required?

Howdy folks,

Was just wondering if perhaps anyone could help here. I've googled and searched boards but no one seems to be asking the same question (oddly enough).

I live in a council house. The council offer the house for sale. I haven't got the money to buy it outright, but i do have savings in the Credit Union, and the Credit Union will give me the money to buy it.

As far as the Council are concerned, it's being bought outright, and the only terms the Credit Union are applying is that i get a solicitor's letter agreeing that they (the credit union) have a 1st or 2nd legal charge on the property.

So here is where I get a little confused:

As I'm buying a house from the council (and not a private seller), and as I will have the money in one go, do I actually really need a solicitor? I'm not sure if I'm perhaps overlooking something obvious, but I can't see what a solicitor adds to the situation?

As it's a council house, stamp duty is a set fee (€100). I am aware a fee also exists in the form of a land registry fee that must be paid.


I've a few quotes, and I'm going to spend about a grand (ex vat) for a solicitor as a professional fee. Money I'd rather not spend if i didn't need to.


Do I actually need a solicitor or can I DIY it? (I know i'll need a solicitor to write the legal charge agreement, but i can't imagine that being a wholly expensive situation? I'll also get the same solicitor to do a will, but again, I'm lead to believe that's a cheap and cheerful event and not one that will cost much?


Anyone able to shed any light here? I feel like I'm missing something obvious.

Cheers

van_beano

If the Credit Union are giving you the funds to purchase the house then you are technically getting a mortgage for the house. The Credit Union would require a charge on the deeds of the house in order to fulfil their need to have the house as security in case payment back of the loan stops and repossession is required.

In light of the above then a Solicitor would be required to facilitate all of that, it doesn't sound too different to a regular purchase of a house through a mortgage.

Hannibal_Smith

The credit union say they require a solicitors letter saying that they will register a charge over the property in their favour. So yes you need a solicitor.

You say you're buying the property from your own savings, if that's the case why are the credit union looking for a charge over it? That would only be the case if you were getting a loan, on foot of which you will be making repayments.

If a solicitor is going to act for you then they will need to take up the title documents, review them and provide an undertaking and certificate of title to the credit union.

Samuel T. Cogley

The conveyance also needs to be properly completed. It's very easy for there to be issues with the land as it's all local authority so no one is going to complain but it could be that part of your garden is actually the neigbour's etc.

Apologies, I probably worded it badly.

My savings aren't sufficient to buy the house outright, so I am getting a loan from the CU. But the Credit Union can't actually offer a 'mortgage' (I don't believe they are allowed to) so this would be under the guise of their home Improvement Loan (which is a loan wherein a legal charge is secured against the house.. so a mortgage in all but name, pretty much).


I just thought that, as the Council (the seller of the property) would be getting paid in a single amount from me, that the actual purchase of the property would be more straight-forward (the CU can't have a legal charge in the property until after I buy it, so actually buying the property doesnt require that, that'll be after the purchase, as I can't give them a legal charge on a house I don't own yet).


So my thinking was that this would be straight-forward sale, which could hopefully be done without a solicitor, and then afterwards I could engage one to do the legal charge and a will.

Sorry if i worded it poorly.

Samuel T. Cogley

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The conveyance also needs to be properly completed. It's very easy for there to be issues with the land as it's all local authority so no one is going to complain but it could be that part of your garden is actually the neigbour's etc.

It is a council estate, but this scheme (to buy the house off them) has appeared before.

As far as I know, every house that immediately surrounds me is privately owned (having bought from the council before).

van_beano

No financial institution can put a charge on a property before the mortgage holder purchases it, that's always the way it is. The Solicitor would have to give an undertaking to register the charge on behalf of the Credit Union with Land Registry once the sale is complete.

What you are doing is the normal way house purchases are conducted when a loan/mortgage is required.

Senna

Your sale is no different to anyone else buying a house, with or without a mortgage. The seller gets one payment be it from your own saving, a mortgage or a CU loan.

Even if you could get away without a solicitor, are you happy that if some issue arises in the process you have no one to look after your financial interests. €1000 is a very good quote, mine was much more than that.

Samuel T. Cogley

Deleted User wrote: »

It is a council estate, but this scheme (to buy the house off them) has appeared before.

As far as I know, every house that immediately surrounds me is privately owned (having bought from the council before).

Me too but you want to see the mess some of the folios are in online.

4ensic15

Deleted User wrote: »

Apologies, I probably worded it badly.

My savings aren't sufficient to buy the house outright, so I am getting a loan from the CU. But the Credit Union can't actually offer a 'mortgage' (I don't believe they are allowed to) so this would be under the guise of their home Improvement Loan (which is a loan wherein a legal charge is secured against the house.. so a mortgage in all but name, pretty much).


I just thought that, as the Council (the seller of the property) would be getting paid in a single amount from me, that the actual purchase of the property would be more straight-forward (the CU can't have a legal charge in the property until after I buy it, so actually buying the property doesnt require that, that'll be after the purchase, as I can't give them a legal charge on a house I don't own yet).


So my thinking was that this would be straight-forward sale, which could hopefully be done without a solicitor, and then afterwards I could engage one to do the legal charge and a will.

Sorry if i worded it poorly.

The Credit Union want to rely on your solicitor's professional indemnity insurance. The solicitor will have to investigate the title, register it and the Cu charge and put his name to a document telling the Cu that in the event you default on the loan, they can get their money back. If the solicitor get it wrong, the solicitor is sued. No way is a solicitor going to give a letter undertaking to register a charge if they do not investigate the title themselves. You have no choice but to use a solicitor. Make sure to get a good one, based on recommendation.

wordofwarning

If the CU want a charge on your property, it is basically a mortgage without calling it a mortgage. They are taking security against your property in exchange for a loan. AFAIK CU have strict rules on giving out mortgages. Calling it a 'home improvement loan' etc is an attempt to by pass the CB rules

I would get a solictor and a good one. The council might sell you a property with a bad title. The least thing you want to do is buy a property to discover you can't actually sell it in a few years. I know someone who brought a property with a bank title, that was repoed by the bank. The vulture fund that is now selling it, can't actually sell it. It is on the market for the third time. The sale has fallen through twice already.

You can buy it without a solictor, but it would be very unwise to do so

4ensic15

wordofwarning wrote: »

You can buy it without a solictor, but it would be very unwise to do so

The Credit Union won't give him the money without a letter from a solicitor. No way can he avoid using a solicitor.

antoinolachtnai

You do need a solicitor.

Apart from your lender's requirement you would be very unwise to do such a large and complex transaction without professional advice. It is just another cost of having a house, the same as getting the roof fixed or putting in a new fuse board or hiring a moving van.

The solicitor's job is to provide an assurance to you (and the Credit Union) that the property will actually be yours after you have paid for it with your hard earned savings and borrowings.

Wills, by the way, are not cheap and they are certainly not simple. The solicitor takes the work with the expectation that he may eventually benefit from the conveyancing work associated with the estate.

Good legal advice is always a good investment.

Good luck with the house!

Cheers folks.

Was hoping it'd save a few euro, but in hindsight, ye folks are bang on. Most likely the most expensive thing I'll ever buy so may aswell do it right.

Can I ask, in the process of buying a property, do you at any point get a map of the property, and the land you're actually purchasing? Would this generally be part and parcel of the sale or something you'd have to go looking for?

Cheers

busylady

Yes the contract for sale would refer to a map of the property and your solicitor would check that you are satisfied that the map relates to the property - your surveyor may also want to see a copy of the map to check boundaries.