Can an alcoholic be signed into rehab against their will?

Sebastian Dangerfield

As you'd hear of a person being 'sectioned', can a person be forced into residential treatment for alcohol addiction against their will? A family member is in a bad way and is a complete danger to themselves, having attempted suicide previously. Today they were found by the Gardai unconscious beside the canal - a bit of worse luck and theyd have drowned. Its only a matter of time before something worse happens. Any advise would be appreciated.

Unsure if this should be under Health or Legal, so apologies if its in the wrong place. If Legal, Im not looking for advise, just clarification on the point in hypothetical terms.

Gremlinertia

From the citizen's information website
"Under the Mental Health Act 2001, you may be involuntarily admitted and detained in an approved psychiatric centre if you are suffering from a mental disorder. You may not be admitted purely because you are suffering from a personality disorder, are socially deviant or addicted to drugs or intoxicants."

Link to full page - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health_services/mental_health/admission_to_a_psychiatric_hospital.html#ld8cc2

Short answer to your question is no, however if the person is in real danger in future the gardai or your own gp may suggest alternatives, it's a difficult one Sebastian, i hope you manage through the difficulties

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CeilingFly

No, but one option is to bring them down to cluain mhuire in Athy and leave them there. The staff there are very good at coaxing people to give it a shot and have a very high success rate.

Don't ring them - they'll say they have a waiting list. Bring the person and present them to them. They cannot turn them away.

They have a 12 week programme and will give you huge supports.

Lady is a tramp

CeilingFly wrote: »

No, but one option is to bring them down to cluain mhuire in Athy and leave them there. The staff there are very good at coaxing people to give it a shot and have a very high success rate.

Don't ring them - they'll say they have a waiting list. Bring the person and present them to them. They cannot turn them away.

Completely untrue - you might get lucky, but usually the person will be turned away. There are exceptions, but don't count on it.

laros

No, but one option is to bring them down to cluain mhuire in Athy and leave them there. The staff there are very good at coaxing people to give it a shot and have a very high success rate.

Don't ring them - they'll say they have a waiting list. Bring the person and present them to them. They cannot turn them away.

They have a 12 week programme and will give you huge supports.

not really true...Situation with my sister ... had been in Athy for the program and had lapsed almost straight away upon release , she was dropped off at the gates of Cluain Mhuire late at night and they took her in for the night ., but she had too leave the next day. random drop offs like that only cause disruption to the service and the other clients and can possibly block someone from getting a place in the unit.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Thanks everyone for the advice. An ambulance has had to be called since, though ultimately a waste of their time. The paramedic reckoned we can get her signed in somewhere if we can get her GP to write a letter stating shes a danger to herself, but the feedback here seems to go against that

Tell me how

CeilingFly wrote:

No, but one option is to bring them down to cluain mhuire in Athy and leave them there. The staff there are very good at coaxing people to give it a shot and have a very high success rate.

That's not treatment that's abandoning someone on to someone else and hoping they'll deal with it.

I know it's incredibly difficult, frustrating, worrying and you'll try anything to help someone when you're at your wits end but it needs appropriate planning. It's not fair on the service provider to put them in this predicament.

Maybe ring the place and ask them what needs to happen in order to admit someone. I suspect it'll be a Dr's referral at the very least plus will be subject to an available space.

laros

A letter from the GP and commitment from the person with the problem is whats needed. ( the person with the problem may not actually think there is a problem tho... )

laros

http://cuanmhuire.ie/

Here's The website it's currently being updated but it has phone numbers for Athy and the other centres maybe ring them and have a chat about your options.best of luck with it all.

Lady is a tramp

Basically the procedure at e.g. Cuan Mhuire is that the person themselves has to ring up and ask to be placed on the waiting list for Admission. The waiting list varies, maybe 2-5 weeks, but the person needs to ring every day to keep their place on the list. No one can be placed there or held there against their will, GP letter or not. Cuan Mhuire (and any of the private treatment centres you'd hear of, e.g. White Oaks, Aiseri, The Rutland, etc) are not run by the state and are absolutely NOT obliged to accept anyone who turns up (or is dumped) at their door. It would be completely unfair on those who are on the waiting list and are ringing in every single day waiting desperately for a bed.

If someone is drunk and is an immediate danger to themselves or others, they may well be sectioned and held against their will in a psychiatric unit in a public hospital. However once they're sobered up and can convince the staff on duty that there are no other psychiatric issues, the staff won't be able to hold them there any longer. They can (and probably will) suggest where the patient can seek help for their alcohol issues, but they can't force them to follow up on getting that help.

Others have suggested Al-Anon; it's a good place to start. Do bear in mind that it's to help YOU - a lot of people go there looking for resources to help their loved one, that's not what it's about.

Would she agree to come to the GP with you to discuss things? If she's uncomfortable talking about it, it could help her if she were to write things down first. A good start might be if he were willing to write a prescription for a Librium detox for her (i.e. detoxing safely at home, hopefully with supportive family around.) It's amazing how much a clear head for even a few days can help; even if she doesn't stay sober, it might give you the opportunity to have some proper discussions with her about her long-term treatment options. She doesn't have to promise you to stop drinking forever, or to even try, but just to get her sober for a few days might be a good start, so ye can review the situation together. The Librium will prevent any dangerous withdrawals and should keep anxiety etc under control too for a few days.

AA meetings are everywhere, every day. Ring the number for your local meetings, all available on their website, and you'll probably find you'll get offers from members to bring her along to a couple of meetings. She doesn't have to be in recovery to go - all that's required is a desire to stop drinking. AA works for so many people, and is a great place to start, if she'll just agree to go along and listen.

I've been in your family member's position countless times - feel free to PM if you've any questions that you mightn't want to discuss publicly. I'm one of those "lost causes" who almost everyone had given up on - if I can make it out the other side, pretty much anyone can. Don't give up hope.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

Would she agree to come to the GP with you to discuss things? If she's uncomfortable talking about it, it could help her if she were to write things down first. A good start might be if he were willing to write a prescription for a Librium detox for her (i.e. detoxing safely at home, hopefully with supportive family around.) It's amazing how much a clear head for even a few days can help; even if she doesn't stay sober, it might give you the opportunity to have some proper discussions with her about her long-term treatment options. She doesn't have to promise you to stop drinking forever, or to even try, but just to get her sober for a few days might be a good start, so ye can review the situation together. The Librium will prevent any dangerous withdrawals and should keep anxiety etc under control too for a few days.

AA meetings are everywhere, every day. Ring the number for your local meetings, all available on their website, and you'll probably find you'll get offers from members to bring her along to a couple of meetings. She doesn't have to be in recovery to go - all that's required is a desire to stop drinking. AA works for so many people, and is a great place to start, if she'll just agree to go along and listen.

I've been in your family member's position countless times - feel free to PM if you've any questions that you mightn't want to discuss publicly. I'm one of those "lost causes" who almost everyone had given up on - if I can make it out the other side, pretty much anyone can. Don't give up hope.

Problem is she hits a low point and accepts she needs residential treatment. Then 24 hours passes and she refuses to go. She has never taken criticism well, the softly softly approach works til the next day, and trying to confront her only angers her the other way. I am sure that if she got residential treatment it would help, but Im equally sure she'll be dead in a matter of weeks if this continues. How to bridge the gap between the two scenarios, when the person is so addicted they refuse to do anything that would cut off supply, is the problem.

Tell me how

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote:

Problem is she hits a low point and accepts she needs residential treatment. Then 24 hours passes and she refuses to go....


How to bridge the gap between the two scenarios,

Could you record a video of her when she is acknowledging that she needs residential care and show it to her when she is the resisting?

Sebastian Dangerfield

Tell me how wrote: »

Could you record a video of her when she is acknowledging that she needs residential care and show it to her when she is the resisting?

A good idea and thanks for the suggestion, but she's rarely if ever sober enough for that to work. Its a 24 hour thing now, shes going to the toilet where she sits and its being cleaned up around her. She doesnt care, she'll say or do anything to get us out of her face so she can carry on drinking

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CeilingFly

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

Completely untrue - you might get lucky, but usually the person will be turned away. There are exceptions, but don't count on it.

The op said the person was in a bad way and a danger to themselves - thus presenting them to cluain mhuire would see the appropriate help given.

Obviously it would not be appropriate for a "standard" admission, but in an emergency, it can be the only option.

My wife works in a similar area and has advised such a route for someone in equally bad way and who was considered a danger to his family.

The good news is that person has been off alcohol since finishing the course over a year ago