13k pm rent in Dublin

AmberGold

I see the rental market in Dublin has reached a new high.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/new-to-market/13-000-a-month-sligo-man-targets-luxury-rental-market-1.3068815?mode=amp

I can imagine a substantial amount of readers consider this level of rent astonishing.

Taking into consideration the Landlord will pay top rate of tax on the rental income and be able to write off little or nothing I'm struggling to see how he can make a return, especially considering the finish. Never mind factoring in the upkeep of such a high end property.

robp

Arguably cheaper than average!
13,000 Euro / 510sqm = 25 Euro / sqm

Average apartment in a decent area
1,353 Euro/  45sqm = 30 Euro /sqm

Source
https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/dublin

Sleepy

Presumably the rent won't be paid to the landlord personally but rather into his development company.

Tax arrangements are rather different at this level.

Muff Richardson

Property: Sorrento Road, Dalkey, Dalkey, County Dublin http://myhome.ie/3438583

I make it €37,200 a month

Muff Richardson

Muff Richardson wrote: »

Property: Sorrento Road, Dalkey, Dalkey, County Dublin http://myhome.ie/3438583

I make it €37,200 a month

Eddie Irvine owned that place - maybe he still does.

ohnonotgmail

13,000 makes no sense at all. the paid 5.5M for the two properties so even if we go at that price it is a return of 5.5%. In reality his return will be quite a bit lower when his refurbishment costs are taken into account.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

13,000 makes no sense at all. the paid 5.5M for the two properties so even if we go at that price it is a return of 5.5%. In reality his return will be quite a bit lower when his refurbishment costs are taken into account.

quote from article

" €5.5 million purchase of the Merrion Road properties and mews houses to the rear. "

so that's at least 4 places to rent out. (2 big gaffs and 2 mews, but there could be more than 2 mews maybe)

Sleepy

I'd expect there to be 4 mews properties with that.

ohnonotgmail

glasso wrote: »

quote from article

" €5.5 million purchase of the Merrion Road properties and mews houses to the rear. "

so that's at least 4 places to rent out. (2 big gaffs and 2 mews, but there could be more than 2 mews maybe)

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd expect there to be 4 mews properties with that.

fair points. missed that in the article.

Samuel T. Cogley

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

13,000 makes no sense at all. the paid 5.5M for the two properties so even if we go at that price it is a return of 5.5%. In reality his return will be quite a bit lower when his refurbishment costs are taken into account.

No sense on 50% income tax but with the tax mechanisms he'll be using I expect he'll bve paying almost 0% tax.

Perfectly legally of course, I can really do without a defamation suit from a rich solicitor.

with the 4 mews properties at 3k a month each that's 7% yield, allowing for 1 mill renovation.

tax we don't know about but it's probably "efficient"

ohnonotgmail

glasso wrote: »

with the 4 mews properties at 3k a month each that's 7% yield, allowing for 1 mill renovation.

tax we don't know about but it's probably "efficient"

does 1M not seem a bit light to renovate two properties in complete disrepair to a very high standard ? not forgetting the renovation costs for the mews.

The_Conductor

glasso wrote: »

with the 4 mews properties at 3k a month each that's 7% yield, allowing for 1 mill renovation.

tax we don't know about but it's probably "efficient"

I make it out to be a little over 8%- definite investment grade.
The sums seem enormous- but if you sit down and crunch the numbers- they're not nearly as startling as they seem.........

The_Conductor

The_Conductor wrote: »

I make it out to be a little over 8%- definite investment grade.
The sums seem enormous- but if you sit down and crunch the numbers- they're not nearly as startling as they seem.........

Exactly. It's only the fact that it's residential and not commercial that gets people's interest

AmberGold

Poperties at this level remain vacant for long periods between lets, can think of better ways to secure a return.

The_Conductor

AmberGold wrote: »

Poperties at this level remain vacant for long periods between lets, can think of better ways to secure a return.

Depends- often they're taken on long company leases for executive staff- rather than by the executives themselves. Occasionally, it comes as a package including school places etc for accompanying children, access to concierge etc etc. Its not as unusual as you might imagine

Yourself isit

The_Conductor wrote: »

Depends- often they're taken on long company leases for executive staff- rather than by the executives themselves. Occasionally, it comes as a package including school places etc for accompanying children, access to concierge etc etc. Its not as unusual as you might imagine

The executive would have to pay benefit in kind, right? If domiciled here.


As for the owner he may have low rates of tax in his company but surely taking the money out costs.

The_Conductor

Yourself isit wrote: »

The executive would have to pay benefit in kind, right? If domiciled here.


As for the owner he may have low rates of tax in his company but surely taking the money out costs.

There are more ways than one to skin a cat - however, thats not for this forum.

4ensic15

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

13,000 makes no sense at all. the paid 5.5M for the two properties so even if we go at that price it is a return of 5.5%. In reality his return will be quite a bit lower when his refurbishment costs are taken into account.

There is also the capital gain to consider. This will be the bigger element of the payback.

Sleepy

Yep: purchased in 2015 in rag order he'd have bought these close to the bottom of the market and once the refurbishments were done cost effectively (a very high standard can't be achieved without spending money but it can be withough wasting money) they could have created value in their own right. The capital gains here should be significant over the medium term.

The_Conductor

Of course its plausible that he also has losses to carry forward, to offset some of the capital gain against- in any event, any gain is only crystalised on disposal of the property- which he can bide his time and choose the moment that best suits his purpose (from a regulatory and tax perspective).

wordofwarning

IMO the property is not a bad price to rent. It is an incredible property

At the upper end of the market in Dublin, it often makes more sense to rent than to buy.

A comparable property on Raglan Road is over €4m to buy and a fair bit smaller

http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/ballsbridge/25-raglan-road-ballsbridge-dublin-1323447/

Graham

wordofwarning wrote: »

IMO the property is not a bad price to rent. It is an incredible property

I think you're right. €13k is perhaps counterintuitively good value for the size/location and apparent standard of finish.

Given it's size/location, I would expect it to be of more interest as a diplomatic residence rather than a corporate let. No BIK to worry about there

Samuel T. Cogley

Graham wrote: »

I think you're right. €13k is perhaps counterintuitively good value for the size/location and apparent standard of finish.

Given it's size/location, I would expect it to be of more interest as a diplomatic residence rather than a corporate let. No BIK to worry about there

Right area too!

I'm very happy in my working class area suits me down to the ground and SCD is my idea of hell in many ways but bloody hell there is something very seductive about D4, and I'm not just talking about the myriad of <I'll save you the time... 'mod snipped'> :P

quadrifoglio verde

Personally I think it's quite good value for the area
Needless to say, my friends thing it's ridiculous. At the Same time, same friends were renting last June a house at 2.5K a month that sold at 750K in September and thought it was expensive to rent

Myself, I'd take spend 750K on a house where I'm an hour to 90 mins from Dublin and capable of having Great Gatsby style parties.
Thankfully I'm in the strange position where I earn more outside Dublin than in Dublin

wordofwarning

Graham wrote: »

I think you're right. €13k is perhaps counterintuitively good value for the size/location and apparent standard of finish.

Given it's size/location, I would expect it to be of more interest as a diplomatic residence rather than a corporate let. No BIK to worry about there

A diplomatic residence never occurred to me. But it makes a lot of sense. It is close to the embassy belt and it is a house of its calibre.

Size is great for a diplomatic residence too. You can have a ton of maids and other help without worrying about paying them a fair wage, since a lot embassies seem to a la carte on labour laws

The_Conductor

wordofwarning wrote: »

a lot embassies seem to a la carte on labour laws

Not any more- there have been a few court cases that have hammered these practices on the head.

4ensic15

The_Conductor wrote: »

Not any more- there have been a few court cases that have hammered these practices on the head.

It depends on the country in question. There is a convention that diplomatic immunity should not be invoked for private matters. Some countries respect that and some don't.

athtrasna

Can we get back to the A&P talk please