Roundabouts

sdanseo

Am I the only one who thinks that roundabouts are completely overused?

There's plenty of reason to advocate them in certain places. For joining up 3 or 4 roads with light to medium traffic, they work and are appropriate. But in a lot of places, especially with a high volume of traffic, they only serve to slow things down and end up becoming signal controlled, which seems to be the single stupidest thing humans have ever invented. Busier motorway junctions - not busy enough to warrant freeflow - being the main examples.

In places like Ballycoolin and on who-knows how many bypasses, there also tends to be a lot of them in quick succession which slows traffic down considerably on the road which has priority. Going around ten roundabouts is a lot slower than going through ten green lights.

Is there any national guidance, maybe in the DMRB, as to when a 4-way junction should be used instead?

marno21

sdanseo wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that roundabouts are completely overused?

There's plenty of reason to advocate them in certain places. For joining up 3 or 4 roads with light to medium traffic, they work and are appropriate. But in a lot of places, especially with a high volume of traffic, they only serve to slow things down and end up becoming signal controlled, which seems to be the single stupidest thing humans have ever invented. Busier motorway junctions - not busy enough to warrant freeflow - being the main examples.

In places like Ballycoolin and on who-knows how many bypasses, there also tends to be a lot of them in quick succession which slows traffic down considerably on the road which has priority. Going around ten roundabouts is a lot slower than going through ten green lights.

Is there any national guidance, maybe in the DMRB, as to when a 4-way junction should be used instead?

Same with the Groody Link Road in Limerick. 4 roundabouts and one at either end of the road.

I'd sometimes take an alternative route to avoid them, especially at night.

That N2/N3 link road is reckless for the amount of roundabouts too indeed as you say.

chewed

It's just lazy Irish road planning in my view! Just plonk a load of small roundabouts in a new development and it'll be grand! Ballycoolin is a disaster at peak times and everyone is so aggressive trying to get on/off the roundabouts.

A lot of the roundabouts are also too small. They should have been made much larger on the main arteries, but obviously the land value was too much to give over to this.

The roundabout at the Blanchardstown Town Centre and R121 needs to be changed to a proper 4 way junction as the volume of traffic is far too heavy for a tiny roundabout.

mikeymouse

You also get "Milton Keynes" tyre wear

Peregrinus

Roundabouts have their place. Generally they involve less delay overall than a signal-controlled junction, and therefore they help to reduce traffic congestion. They work best at this where road of equal importance/traffic volume intersect. But, even then, they're only efficient up to a certain traffic volume; beyond that volume they tend to increase delay, unless you construct a two-lane roundabout, which takes up a lot of land and is therefore very expensive.

They can also serve as traffic-calming devices. There are fewer collisions at roundabouts and they tend to be less injurious/less damaging, because they typically happen at lower speeds.

They're good for pedestrians - it's generally quicker to cross the road at a roundabout than at a signal-controlled junction. But they're really inconvenient for cyclists.

blinding

If the traffic is pretty even on all roads then they work pretty well....

And ones without traffic lights shouldn't break down....

First Up

Easiest driving country I've ever been is France and they use roundabouts everywhere. I'm a fan.

Cloudio9

First Up wrote: »

Easiest driving country I've ever been is France and they use roundabouts everywhere. I'm a fan.

The French are also more tolerant of cars taking small gaps at busy roundabouts which makes them work better in heavy traffic. In Ireland people lose their sh1t if they have "right of way" on the roundabout.

AugustusMinimus

sdanseo wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that roundabouts are completely overused?

There's plenty of reason to advocate them in certain places. For joining up 3 or 4 roads with light to medium traffic, they work and are appropriate. But in a lot of places, especially with a high volume of traffic, they only serve to slow things down and end up becoming signal controlled, which seems to be the single stupidest thing humans have ever invented. Busier motorway junctions - not busy enough to warrant freeflow - being the main examples.

In places like Ballycoolin and on who-knows how many bypasses, there also tends to be a lot of them in quick succession which slows traffic down considerably on the road which has priority. Going around ten roundabouts is a lot slower than going through ten green lights.

Is there any national guidance, maybe in the DMRB, as to when a 4-way junction should be used instead?

How often do you get 10 green lights in a row?

Nothing wrong with roundabouts in the right places. Signalised roundabouts also have a higher capacity than any form of at-grade signalised junction as they allow more concurrent movements.

dev100

Cloudio9 wrote:

The French are also more tolerant of cars taking small gaps at busy roundabouts which makes them work better in heavy traffic. In Ireland people lose their sh1t if they have "right of way" on the roundabout.

Ay yes the ould yield the attitude of drivers who aren't even near the roundabout think they can just drive straight thru at hi speed and not slow down even if other cars and then go ballistic because you got onto roundabout before them .

Peregrinus

dev100 wrote: »

Ay yes the ould yield the attitude of drivers who aren't even near the roundabout think they can just drive straight thru at hi speed and not slow down even if other cars and then go ballistic because you got onto roundabout before them .

Those drivers are correct. Right of way goes to the driver on the right, not the driver who got their first. You shouldn't enter the roundabout if you're doing so will cause a driver coming from your right to have to slow down.

Cloudio9

Peregrinus wrote: »

Those drivers are correct. Right of way goes to the driver on the right, not the driver who got their first. You shouldn't enter the roundabout if you're doing so will cause a driver coming from your right to have to slow down.

you yield to traffic from the right on the roundabout. You don't yield to traffic which has not reached the roundabout.

dev100

Peregrinus wrote:

Those drivers are correct. Right of way goes to the driver on the right, not the driver who got their first. You shouldn't enter the roundabout if you're doing so will cause a driver coming from your right to have to slow down.

No I believe you would be wrong . Your meant to slow down and yield when approaching a roundabout you just can't drive straight onto it thinking you've the right away. The person already on the roundabout has the right away no matter what happens .

D0NNELLY

mikeymouse wrote: »

You also get "Milton Keynes" tyre wear

Swords bypass tyre wear

TheRiverman

Roundabouts are great,it's all the idiot drivers that don't know how to use them that is the problem.

road_high

So many "driving miss daisies" I encounter daily are so irritatingly hesistant and slow at roundabouts- ffs there's no need to slow to a complete stop, especially when the roundabout is clear. Kinda the defeats the whole purpose of them.
Another I see almost as much is people on roundabouts indicating to the complete opposite direction to which they are going. Again, how hard must it be to get the concept of indicating the direction you are headed?! Just this eve behind a guy (disturbingly) with N plates indicates to go right but then proceeds straight on- what logical thought process goes on with these people?

Pinch Flat

The problem with roundabouts here is that a lot of people don't know how to use them. So you'll have idiots in the right hand lane approaching, because the left lane is busy, then going straight on. People will also proceed to roundabouts and clog them up, preventing other people from using them - despite yellow boxes on some (another thing people don't seem to know the purpose of).

Peregrinus

dev100 wrote: »

No I believe you would be wrong . Your meant to slow down and yield when approaching a roundabout you just can't drive straight onto it thinking you've the right away. The person already on the roundabout has the right away no matter what happens .

Nope; you must yield to traffic coming from the right. The question of who gets to the roundabout first is irrelevant. Thus if there's a car approaching the roundabout from your right, which hasn't yet entered the roundabout, but it's close enough that if you enter the roundabout you will obstruct it (i.e. force it to go slower than it would otherwise need to) then you must give way to it.

As the Rules of the Road succinctly puts it, "you must yield to traffic coming from the right". They even print the "must" in red. There's not a whisper to suggest that this is confined to people already on the roundabout who are coming from your right.

You're correct to say that you're meant to slow down when approaching the roundabout, but the main purpose of this is so you can check whether there's anyone approaching from your right, and so that you'll have the opportunity to stop if you are required to yield to them.

JohnC.

Pinch Flat wrote: »

The problem with roundabouts here is that a lot of people don't know how to use them. So you'll have idiots in the right hand lane approaching, because the left lane is busy, then going straight on.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you...but using both lanes to go straight is allowed on many roundabouts and even marked as such. It's also in the Rules of the Road to use it if the left lane is busy.

Though I have seen people using the left lane to turn right.

Victor

There is a recognised problem with people just driving straight through crossroads, without obeying traffic lights or yield / stop signs. Hence T-junctions and roundabouts.

roadmaster

The main issue I see with roundabouts is people don't know how to use them which is probably not helped by the fact that various councils have different ways on them for taking the first exit or continuing on. This just seams to confuse people when they come up to ones they are not use to.

sdanseo

Victor wrote: »

There is a recognised problem with people just driving straight through crossroads, without obeying traffic lights or yield / stop signs. Hence T-junctions and roundabouts.

I agree - non-signaled crossroads are a perfect example of where a roundabout is absolutely ideal - crossroads without traffic lights are a nightmare in Ireland. Nobody seems to understand the right of way.

Many roundabouts though seem to just slow traffic down unnecessarily - especially those on main routes. For example my commute has 9 of them in reasonably light traffic and several having very little cross-traffic. A run of mostly green lights would be probable most days. Add to that the fuel impact of having to slow and accelerate (in an 80km/h limit) when there's no traffic to be stopping for and it gets a bit annoying.

dev100

Peregrinus wrote:

Nope; you must yield to traffic coming from the right. The question of who gets to the roundabout first is irrelevant. Thus if there's a car approaching the roundabout from your right, which hasn't yet entered the roundabout, but it's close enough that if you enter the roundabout you will obstruct it (i.e. force it to go slower than it would otherwise need to) then you must give way to it.As the Rules of the Road succinctly puts it, "you must yield to traffic coming from the right". They even print the "must" in red. There's not a whisper to suggest that this is confined to people already on the roundabout who are coming from your right.
You're correct to say that you're meant to slow down when approaching the roundabout, but the main purpose of this is so you can check whether there's anyone approaching from your right, and so that you'll have the opportunity to stop if you are required to yield to them.

Everyone approaching a roundabout have equal status and that means everyone has to yield when approaching a roundabout

My advice would be to re read the rule book

Here's a few basic rules to think about.

Copied from The rule book

It is important to understand that the right of way is not an absolute right of
way. You must proceed with caution, having regard for other road users.


Use the whisper bit on this piece of info ie the bit where it says if the way is clear .
Treat the roundabout as a junction. You must yield to traffic coming from
the right, but keep moving if the way is clear.

If
you see a Yield sign on the road, usually near a junction or roundabout, you
must give way to any traffic on a major road ahead and you must not proceed onto the main road until it is safe to do so.

Peregrinus

None of that supports your initial statement that "the person already on the roundabout has the right of way no matter what". The right of way goes not to the person who gets to the roundabout first, but to the person who is coming from the right.

CeilingFly

dev100 wrote: »

No I believe you would be wrong . Your meant to slow down and yield when approaching a roundabout you just can't drive straight onto it thinking you've the right away. The person already on the roundabout has the right away no matter what happens .

That is correct. So many think it's "driver to right" has right of way.

On roundabouts, a driver on the roundabout prior to you entering, has right of way whether that driver is ahead on the roundabout or to your right on the roundabout.

Incident three years ago with wife. She entered a roundabout before a driver came from road to the right. The plonker effectively drove into her and tried to claim right of way.

Gardai didn't buy it and neither did court as he was convicted of careless driving and insurance claim went against him too. Thankfully she had a dashcam - which also showed his animated anger which did not go down well in court.

I would much prefer a roundabout over the excessive use of traffic lights like there is in Athlone for example, on some roads there is a set of lights every few metres and they cause congestion rather than enable traffic to flow freely.

dev100

CeilingFly wrote:

That is correct. So many think it's "driver to right" has right of way.

CeilingFly wrote:

On roundabouts, a driver on the roundabout prior to you entering, has right of way whether that driver is ahead on the roundabout or to your right on the roundabout.

Common sense stuff !!!

CeilingFly wrote:

Incident three years ago with wife. She entered a roundabout before a driver came from road to the right. The plonker effectively drove into her and tried to claim right of way.

Yep an expensive way to claim right of way !!! You can be guaranteed same type individuals are type who don't like it when you filter to overtake on a dual carriageway/ motorway. I overtook a car last week and the fella on the overtaking lane didn't like me invading his space in front of him and it was a case I was doing anything unsafe .... Funny thing was he had to speed up to catch me and turn on his full lights to give out to me .

CeilingFly wrote:

Gardai didn't buy it and neither did court as he was convicted of careless driving and insurance claim went against him too. Thankfully she had a dashcam - which also showed his animated anger which did not go down well in court.

The dash cams are a handy piece of equipment !!!

Peregrinus wrote:

None of that supports your initial statement that "the person already on the roundabout has the right of way no matter what". The right of way goes not to the person who gets to the roundabout first, but to the person who is coming from the right.

See above for an example of what happens when you hit someone on a roundabout . For the last time with rights of way other rules do apply and you just can't pick one rule and leave the rest out .

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

sdanseo

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yeah, either that or an attempt at future proofing.

Another way of reducing the number of roundabouts is of course to reduce the number of access points to the main arterial route which I think is also an issue in Ballycoolin in particular. Those roundabouts could be twice as far apart and feed local side roads to individual premises instead of having a roundabout every 200m.