Landlord increasing rent by 33%.

Stompbox

Long story short, we got a handwritten letter from our landlord (been living in the property for four years now) saying that they've have to increase our rent by 33% (property is in Dublin 3 if that helps). We rarely trouble our landlord (we have a great relationship with them and we've only even seen them a handful of times) and we suspect that maybe they've gotten wise to the rising rent prices around the city.

We're wondering what recourse we have here. A cursory search online tells us that the landlord must give 90 days notice before a rent hike and that said hike can't be greater than 7% at a time (we've seen conflicting numbers on this though).

A few notes:
- The property needs a lot of maintenance but we rarely actually ask for stuff to be done because we're delighted with the spot itself and we don't want to be seen as demanding (our rent has always been very reasonable and we're grateful for that). Off the top of my head, there's significant damp in the lower level, the house needs a very thorough repainting and the downstairs shower and toilet are non-operational (all of we've mentioned many times).
- Because of the casual relationship that we have with our landlord, we haven't signed a lease in around two years I'd say. Certainly the last time I remember signing one was in the first year that we moved in but from then on I don't recall doing it again. Will this present us any problems?

I'd be grateful for any advice that anyone has.

odyssey06

Dublin 3 is a "Rent Pressure Zone".
You should read this:
https://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/rent-pressure-zones

Sarn

As above, the amount that the rent can be increased depends on when the last review was. But typically about 4%. A 33% increase is not possible in the RPZ. The only issue is that you have been there 4 years which means, potentially, notice can be given to end the tenancy if you don't agree.

wordofwarning

Stompbox wrote: »

A few notes:
- The property needs a lot of maintenance but we rarely actually ask for stuff to be done because we're delighted with the spot itself and we don't want to be seen as demanding (our rent has always been very reasonable and we're grateful for that). Off the top of my head, there's significant damp in the lower level, the house needs a very thorough repainting and the downstairs shower and toilet are non-operational (all of we've mentioned many times).
- Because of the casual relationship that we have with our landlord, we haven't signed a lease in around two years I'd say. Certainly the last time I remember signing one was in the first year that we moved in but from then on I don't recall doing it again. Will this present us any problems?

I'd be grateful for any advice that anyone has.

Just tell him, he can't increase the rent more than 7% and that you agree to it.

There is zero chance of him doing painting IMO. I would go as far as to say there is basically no chance most landlords will be painting and doing vanity projects anymore since they can't increase the rent. Rent controlled apartments in NYC and SF are pretty dated, as there is no reason for the landlord to spend money. Why spend 2/3k on painting when you can't increase the rent to compensate for it?

The fact you don't have a lease is irrelevant as you have part IV rights. Although after 4 years for a period he is entitled to evict you. When did you move in exactly?

Stompbox

wordofwarning wrote: »

The fact you don't have a lease is irrelevant as you have part IV rights. Although after 4 years for a period he is entitled to evict you. When did you move in exactly?

What are 'Part IV' rights? We moved in September 2012. Say the negotiations with him were to break down, how long a notice of eviction would he have to serve?

Del2005

Stompbox wrote: »

What are 'Part IV' rights? We moved in September 2012. Say the negotiations with him were to break down, how long a notice of eviction would he have to serve?

All the information you need is on the RTB site already posted.

petes

Stompbox wrote: »

What are 'Part IV' rights? We moved in September 2012. Say the negotiations with him were to break down, how long a notice of eviction would he have to serve?

16 weeks, if you look up the citizen's information website (Google notice period after four years) it gives lots of info.

Stompbox

Del2005 wrote: »

All the information you need is on the RTB site already posted.

Reading now. Hypothetically, if we were to be evicted, could the landlord just try find new tenants and advertise the property with the 33% rent hike? Is that legal? Just wondering if that might be an incentive for them to evict us if we don't agree with the increase.

Fol20

Stompbox wrote: »

Reading now. Hypothetically, if we were to be evicted, could the landlord just try find new tenants and advertise the property with the 33% rent hike? Is that legal? Just wondering if that might be an incentive for them to evict us if we don't agree with the increase.

If he did substantial refurbishment he could charge whatever he wanted.if not then no he cant

myshirt

If the landlord had increased the rent to market levels at every opportunity, how much extra would you have paid him?

Think about that.

You said the landlord was reasonable. Why not be reasonable in return?

Graham

myshirt wrote: »

If the landlord had increased the rent to market levels at every opportunity, how much extra would you have paid him?

Think about that.

You said the landlord was reasonable. Why not be reasonable in return?

You say that as if there's some sort of opt-out for tenants in an RPZ.

Stompbox

Fol20 wrote: »

If he did substantial refurbishment he could charge whatever he wanted.if not then no he cant

How does that work? Who would challenge him if he increased the rent like that? The PRTB or the Housing Agency?

Also, what if the usual rents for a similar property in our area are actually similar to the increased rent? Could he then just increase it without reprimand?

wordofwarning

Stompbox wrote: »

What are 'Part IV' rights? We moved in September 2012. Say the negotiations with him were to break down, how long a notice of eviction would he have to serve?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

It is all explained here.

He can't evict you for no reason. He has to say I am evicting you for renovations(if he does you are entitled to move in after them) etc. He is in a bind. He can't evict you easily.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Graham

Stompbox wrote: »

How does that work? Who would challenge him if he increased the rent like that? The PRTB or the Housing Agency?

Also, what if the usual rents for a similar property in our area are actually similar to the increased rent? Could he then just increase it without reprimand?

Your landlord is currently severely restricted by the amount he can increase rent because you are living in a rent pressure zone.

Rent increases in an RPZ are limited to 4% per year, your increase could be slightly higher if the rent hasn't been increased in a number of years

The restrictions on rent apply to the property you're living in so legally speaking your landlord would have to charge the next tenant a similar rent.

odyssey06

Reply to your landlord that your understanding is that under legislation, the most the rent can legally be increased by is X.
Explain that you are happy to accept this increased rent with immediate effect at the next monthly payment as soon as he confirms this back to you in writing.

Include a print out of the first page from the RPZ guide linked earlier:
https://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/rent-pressure-zones

If you have a highlighter marker, highlight X and "Dublin City Council" on the printout.

You can calculate X by using this calculator:
https://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/rpz-calculator

You enter your current rent and last date the rent was increased.

LuckyLloyd

Stompbox wrote: »

How does that work? Who would challenge him if he increased the rent like that? The PRTB or the Housing Agency?

Also, what if the usual rents for a similar property in our area are actually similar to the increased rent? Could he then just increase it without reprimand?

Hey Stompbox. Assuming you started your tenancy in September 2012 and there has been no rent increase since then the most the landlord can increase is as per this calculator:

https://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/rpz-calculator

Also, you are into your second cycle of Chapter IV tenancy and you can only be asked to leave for very limited circumstances described below:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html#lef263

Your lack of a lease makes no difference.

Tell him the proposed increase is invalid and you'll await an offer within the rules served with the correct notice period, and in the meantime you'll continue paying your current rent. That's it, nothing to worry about. Your landlord is in the wrong.

Also, start to insist that he sorts out the damp and non working toilet and shower. Pressure him on those items, follow up on a weekly basis. It's his responsibility to repair.

breathn

Hi OP.
It's likely your landlord will come back to you and state there will be significant works done which require a vacant possession to do them. That way he can legally get past the RPZ cap of 4% and increase the rent to market value of the area.

The minister did not define significant works.

You could appeal it, but then he could so easily say that to fix the damp it would require removal of the floors and that would satisfy the "significant" requirement.

The RTB aren't advocates for tenants, their role is to apply the poorly defined legislation.

This is possible because there's no ethos of long term renting and all that goes with it. Any appeal you make will likely be countered by him doing the bare minimum of upgrades required to consider it significant works to get that 33% increase.

Pawwed Rig

breathn wrote: »

The RTB aren't advocates for tenants,

In my experience that is not true.

Graham

breathn wrote: »

Hi OP.
It's likely your landlord will come back to you and state there will be significant works done which require a vacant possession to do them.

It would be more accurate to suggest it's possible rather than likely.

68 lost souls

breathn wrote: »

Hi OP.
It's likely your landlord will come back to you and state there will be significant works done which require a vacant possession to do them. That way he can legally get past the RPZ cap of 4% and increase the rent to market value of the area.

The minister did not define significant works.

You could appeal it, but then he could so easily say that to fix the damp it would require removal of the floors and that would satisfy the "significant" requirement.

The RTB aren't advocates for tenants, their role is to apply the poorly defined legislation.

This is possible because there's no ethos of long term renting and all that goes with it. Any appeal you make will likely be countered by him doing the bare minimum of upgrades required to consider it significant works to get that 33% increase.

Yes but then he gets all the problems fixed and they are entitled to first refusal on moving back in.

Del2005

68 lost souls wrote: »

Yes but then he gets all the problems fixed and they are entitled to first refusal on moving back in.

And where do they live in the meantime?

wordofwarning

Del2005 wrote: »

And where do they live in the meantime?

A friends, a short term let on daft.ie, etc. It is not the landlords concern

The fact is the landlord will either a) likely decided he is not renovating after the tenants say they will be moving back in. b)if the landlord does not offer it to them, they can sue him via the RTB for a payout.

The incentive to evict for renovations is greatly reduced

jamesthepeach

Post not relevant. Deleted.

athtrasna

Can we go back to helping the OP please rather than get sidetracked. There is no indication that the landlord will go down the major renovations route at this point.

The proposed increase is illegal and the first thing to do is respond to the letter. That it was handwritten is irrelevant, it is an illegal rent increase.

the_syco

Sarn wrote: »

The only issue is that you have been there 4 years which means, potentially, notice can be given to end the tenancy if you don't agree.

Stompbox wrote: »

What are 'Part IV' rights? We moved in September 2012.

I'm pretty sure the LL can only boot the tenant out for the first 6 months of the "new" Part IV, so September 2016 + 6 months means that they're safe now?

Thus, the LL can only increase by whatever the law allows him to do so in the RPZ, and not a tap more. As above, pressure him into fixing the stuff.

Fol20

the_syco wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the LL can only boot the tenant out for the first 6 months of the "new" Part IV, so September 2016 + 6 months means that they're safe now?

Thus, the LL can only increase by whatever the law allows him to do so in the RPZ, and not a tap more. As above, pressure him into fixing the stuff.

He can do stuff.. if there is dampness etc he can require you to get out so he can do the work.. Look at it from ll point of view.. why would he want to fix any non mandatory stuff when he can get the extra rent he wants.. i would just leave it there and fix the stuff when you leave. You cant reap all the rewards without some blowback.. Mind you the ll is in the wrong here if he is not following the law with rental increases.

Fian

Stompbox wrote: »

What are 'Part IV' rights? We moved in September 2012. Say the negotiations with him were to break down, how long a notice of eviction would he have to serve?

You are in luck.

You have just commenced a second 6 year part IV tenancy, with effect from September 2016. During the first 6 months of that tenancy (which started last September) it was open to your landlord to serve notice to terminate for any reason. that 6 months has now passed and you have security of tenure for 6 years, subject to a limited number of reasons for which the lease can be terminated.

If you have not had a rent increase since September 2012 your rent can be increased by a maximum of approximately 9.8% - 2% per annum since your last rent increase until the new rent comes into effect. the exact amount depends on the number of months since your last rent increase
took place effect until the new increase takes place, with 2% permitted for every 12 months.

You are entitled to 90 days notice of the rent increase, to date from the date you are served with the rent review. The format of the rent review is set out on the RTB website.

Part IV refers to Part IV of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. that act has been amended a number of times, most recently last December imposing this rent cap.

It sounds as if you have been very fortunate and conversely your Landlord is going to have to accept rent far below the market rent.

your landlord could choose to seek to terminate for the reasons specified in The Act - these are set out in section 34 of the 2004 Act. If it were terminated the rent limit would still apply to new tenancy, unless significant refurbishment were undertaken.

odyssey06

Now might be a good time to take photos of the interior of the property so you have a snapshot of the place before any 'refurbishments'.

AliceMary

Last September our landlady served notice where I was renting saying that her husband was moving back in. We suspected it wasn't true and within a week of us moving out, the apartment was up on daft for €300 per month. Luckily we screen-shot the listing as it was gone the next day and sent it on to the RTB along with a lot of other paperwork. We succeeded in getting an adjudication hearing and the RTB ruled that she had to pay compensation to us - which after a lot of to-ing and fro-ing - we just got paid today!

The RTB themselves would not pursue the LL when we contacted them, we had to lodge a dispute which was a pain as you think they would police these things. But moral of the story - the RTB helped in the end.

I know it's not ideal as you don't want to have to go down the road of moving out at all, but keep all records of correspondence etc. and if it comes to it the RTB are there!

Sarn

the_syco wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the LL can only boot the tenant out for the first 6 months of the "new" Part IV, so September 2016 + 6 months means that they're safe now?

Thus, the LL can only increase by whatever the law allows him to do so in the RPZ, and not a tap more. As above, pressure him into fixing the stuff.

Absolutely, it was unclear from the first post when the tenancy started. As 6 months have passed the OP is in a much better position. The LL can still use one of the specific reasons for ending a Part IV tenancy but that is more difficult. If that route is taken, I would make sure that the LL follows through and seek compensation if they pull a fast one.

Hopefully the LL will do the right thing and there won't be an issue.

Stompbox

Thanks to everyone for all the useful advice!